Trying to say I have gas in my diesel.

[danielsumner]

Someone please HELP ME. I'm about to lose my mind. I love/loved my little bx 25. I've had Booty since September 2014. He only has 259 hours on him. Ive done all maintenance right on time and used Kubota stuff to do it with. Fast forward to a month ago. Instrument dash went blank. My original dealer closed, a new one opened up nearby. Called them, they came and picked up Booty. While there they said it was a fuse that caused Instrument panel to crash. Fixed. I also had the seat recall taken care of and my dented hood replaced under the insurance. Booty is returned home, I think everything is going great. Uh Oh. A week later the dash goes out again, after a few days they get back to me and tell me where the fuse is. Replace, seems OK. A week later I go to mow with the belly mower, my little tractor starts to buck a tiny bit, the tachometer rpms drop to zero. Tractor is still running. When I try to rive up the rpms it starts to try to cut off. Tachometer jump when starting, then drops to 0. No smoke at all. Call the dealer. They come get him. Guy that comes to get it drives it up on the trailer, its trying to cut off on him. I get a call a few days later. Service guy tells me a boot somewhere broke off and while spinning cut some wires, he rerouted and rewire, everything is fine, he's coming home. That afternoon I get a call, Service guy said tractor kept trying to cut off when putting on trailer. Next day they call me and tell me that the Diesel Fuel smells like Gasoline. This is the problem. NO WAY, NO HOW. I buy all my Diesel from local Shell station. The only Diesel I've ever put in Booty. I have receipts from the beginning. Booty has never been off property, Booty has never been refilled by anyone but me. I go to Dealer. They have this Black tank on the ground with My Diesel in it and dip out some with this old beat up plastic pitcher. See, it smells like Gas. Me, well did you have gas in the vat? Duh. Now they change the fuel filters and put their diesel in Booty, he now still tries to cut off, and now white smoke is bellowing forth. So they send off the fuel injectors off, and tell me that two are not working. Today they install new injectors, nothing different happens. Now they tell me it a bad valve cylinder from having gas in the diesel and tractor needs new engine. I say, did you have my diesel tested and what was the results. Response was NO. We didn't save any. I have called Kubota and I filed a complaint with the district service Representative. I still have some diesel in my cans. I did the test where you put a Styrofoam cup in some diesel and in a couple of hours it has any gas in it, it will melt a bit. Styrofoam cup intact. What is wrong with Booty. I don't want my tractor to be sick.

 

[Spanner]

A week later I go to mow with the belly mower, my little tractor starts to buck a tiny bit, the tachometer rpms drop to zero. Tractor is still running. When I try to rive up the rpms it starts to try to cut off. Tachometer jump when starting, then drops to 0. No smoke at all. Call the dealer. They come get him. Guy that comes to get it drives it up on the trailer, its trying to cut off on him.

Seems you have two problems with your Booty.

There seems to be a recurring electrical fault causing your fuse to blow. That hasn't been properly fixed by the dealer and needs further investigation. :2cents:

The fuel contamination (alleged) issue seems to have occurred at your property before the Booty went to the dealer workshop - from what you wrote above. ^

Booty was trying to cut out when tech trying to drive up on the trailer - At your property. Check all your fuel containers again and ask if anyone else re-fueled poor wee Booty.

 

[crazyal]

Sorry about your tractor. Seams like this new dealer isn't a great dealer. First off fuses rarely just blow. If they blow twice it's a sign that you have something else going on. For the dealer to suggest that you just replace the same fuse they just replaced shows their incompetence. As for gas in the diesel, it's a problem if you have too much in it. The police are always warning bus drivers who come up here with loads of skiers not to use gas to un-gel diesel fuel. I wouldn't do it myself but if it was just a few drops in a gas can I doubt it would do any harm. If it was 5 gallons then it would. Is it possible someone mistakenly poured fuel from the wrong container into your tractor?

 

[JWR]

Cut to the chase: Incompetent dealer. You need to insist via the Kubota district rep that THEY take charge of the machine. Strongly suggest that it be moved to another dealer BUT make clear that it is Kubota's problem and you want it delivered back in good condition. So far the dealer has made problems rather than fixing problems.

 

[danielsumner]

Cut to the chase: Incompetent dealer. You need to insist via the Kubota district rep that THEY take charge of the machine. Strongly suggest that it be moved to another dealer BUT make clear that it is Kubota's problem and you want it delivered back in good condition. So far the dealer has made problems rather than fixing problems.

I've started this process. I called Kubota customer sanctification line and adamantly voiced my concerns. Was told I couldn't call the district rep directly, had to go thru them or Dealer. Well no, I'm a resourceful type of guy. I found out who the Rep was, called and got his email. So far I have left 2 emails. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Also Kubota Customer service called the Dealer, I know this because the Service guy called me and asked If I called them. About my diesel, it's the same fuel that was in the tractor when they serviced it first of August. I have all my receipts for fuel. Don't use much. Last fuel was bought the first of May. 10 gallons. This is what has been running in it all this time. Still have a cup or so in the bottom of each can. You are right, I think it is Incompetent Service Department. This is a brand new dealership, the one I bought the tractor from stopped selling Kubotas. Thank you for your comments. I am going to throw this in to Kubota's hands and tell them get someone that knows what they are doing to FIX MY TRACTOR. I've already told the service guy not to start trying to blame the problem on fuel without a fuel test. I'm in control of the fuel, my yellow cans. No one else has touched them.

 

[Deere Dude]

If you have a 5 gallon can of your diesel I would shake it up and then pour a quart full into a clean quart jar. Given a little time you would be able to see gas separate on the bottom.

I have heard of gas and diesel delivery guys use the same hose for filling the gas tank and then switch over to diesel with the result being a little gas in the diesel. I have seen the results in a JD factory test process.

I haven't seen a common gas diesel pump hose at a filling station in a very long time though. I have run, although not on purpose, a couple gallons of gas in a 35 gallon tank on a truck with no ill effect. I think the dealer is grasping for straws.

 

[danielsumner]

If you have a 5 gallon can of your diesel I would shake it up and then pour a quart full into a clean quart jar. Given a little time you would be able to see gas separate on the bottom.

I have heard of gas and diesel delivery guys use the same hose for filling the gas tank and then switch over to diesel with the result being a little gas in the diesel. I have seen the results in a JD factory test process.

I haven't seen a common gas diesel pump hose at a filling station in a very long time though. I have run, although not on purpose, a couple gallons of gas in a 35 gallon tank on a truck with no ill effect. I think the dealer is grasping for straws.

The pump I get my diesel from is a standalone pump, thus no mistake on my part. The station sells a lot of diesel, they sell at a good price, a lot of semi's fill up there.

 

[JWR]

You have several concurrent mysteries:
1) Is there gas in the fuel at all ? Noses are not definitive.
2) Possible 3rd parties happening around your shop that might have poured gas the wrong place (can or tractor) for what ever well-intended but mistaken reason ?
3) Possible 3rd parties roaming around the newer dealer shop while they had the machine either with mischief or misdirected disposal ideas ?
4) Probable non-fuel content related reasons for the real problems -- shorts in your wiring, clogged filters or fuel passages, mice chewed the wiring, fuel cutoff solenoid malfunction, loose connections, ground wires not making good contact, etc.

My GUESS is there was one single electrical problem that precipitated all the rest -- maybe some water in the fuel for good measure. I really doubt there is anything wrong with a valve or a cylinder and the "new engine" suggestion is just absurd unless they have some proof of a problem which is very unlikely.

Keep in mind too that in the late 70's VW diesel manuals recommended 10% gasoline be added to the fuel for cold weather operation and avoiding gel. I did that. There was no noticeable change. If gasoline was any part of this problem set it must have been one heck of a lot of gasoline.

 

[nybirdman]

Fill-up stations do have mistakes made;our local diesel tank was filled with gas by a rookie driver;they ended up replacing a couple of motors,one a Mercedes car.

 

[newbury]

<snip>Booty is returned home, I think everything is going great. Uh Oh. A week later the dash goes out again, after a few days they get back to me and tell me where the fuse is. Replace, seems OK. A week later I go to mow with the belly mower, my little tractor starts to buck a tiny bit, the tachometer rpms drop to zero. Tractor is still running. When I try to rive up the rpms it starts to try to cut off. Tachometer jump when starting, then drops to 0. No smoke at all. <snip>

How much did you run it from the time they returned it until it

starts to buck a tiny bit

?

I've been driving diesel cars and trucks since I bought my 1979 VW Rabbit (65MPG!!).

I've yet to put gas in a tank. I'm paranoid about it. But I have experienced it twice in Germany, both times when a coworker gassed up rental diesel VW's. The first time the guy filled the tank with gas and ended leaving it at the fuel station for the rental agency to pick up. The second time the guy said he put in about 10 liters of gas, realized his mistake and topped it off with diesel. Thus about 20% of the fuel was gas.

It ran REAL rough but it did run and we drove for several trips and burned it up.

Since diesel is heavier than water /edit - whoops - meant GAS there is a chance the dealer gassed it up, started it, ran it on and off the trailer. Then you got it only ran it a little, and once the fuel got "mixed" it started to choke.

 

[Deere Dude]

Fill-up stations do have mistakes made;our local diesel tank was filled with gas by a rookie driver;they ended up replacing a couple of motors,one a Mercedes car.

I agree and as I mentioned, and will take very little time, put some tractor fuel in a glass container and check the outcome. Being a stand alone pump is good, but not a guarantee. At least it could confirm there is no gas in the mix.

 

[Egon]

I'm not aware of how the electronics of Booty work or what they do but do suspect they could be your problem.

A service Tech that is not up to date and does not have proper access to computer aided diagnostics may be a little challenged.

 

[diesel85]

I have encountered gas being mixed with diesel. Mistakes happen at the fill stations by both rookie and professionals... Same thing happens as full service stations. My buddy brought his diesel tractor over to a full service station on a trailer and the boys thought it ran on gas, so they filled it on up with 12 gallons of gas. To make matters worse, the gas pumps were those gas/diesel combos with two pump handles. I bet that could get costly after filling a diesel truck up with gas. Luckily my buddy got them to get a couple containers out, and he drained the fuel out right at the station and flush it with diesel to make sure there was no gas left. Now if he fills it on the trailer, he takes it to a self service.

 

[dodge man]

I'll give you my take on it. Gas in the diesel, possible but I say the dealer is full of crap. They are either saying that to put the blame on you or are grasping at straws. I agree, probably something electronic.

 

[Mauser12]

A few years back a local Chevron station had a delivery of diesel dumped in one of their gas tanks. The local mechanics got a lot of work from that mistake. My only point is that mistakes do happen at that level. I hope you get the issue solved.

 

[CalG]

could anyone fully describe the damage that might be done to a compression ignition engine that "sputters and stalls" due to gasoline mixed into the fuel?

Seems like a witch hunt based on innocence* to me. * i.e. No practical experience.

 

[Spanner]

Damage is done to the FIP due to lack of lubrication. Diesel is an 'oil' and contains an 'upper cylinder lubricant' component. Petrol (Gas) is a more highly refined 'spirit' and too dry for the close tolerance components in the FIP.

 

[repete]

Where are you from Daniel?

 

[danielsumner]

Where are you from Daniel?

I live in South Georgia. The Dealer that I bought the tractor from is in Statesboro, Ga. and had some issues with Kubota and Dealership issues. They no longer sell Kubota. A new Dealership then opened in Stateboro. Low Country Kubota. I've had some health issues that prevented me from doing alot around our little homestead. The tractor didn't get a lot of use this year. It was been used for things like mowing grass, picking up debris and pushing up our burn piles. Wanted to bushhog the pastures, but the quail have been nesting and we don't want to bother them. The thing with the fuel. Last fuel I bought was May 1st. 10 gallons. It's the same tank of diesel that was in the tractor Aug 1st when they replaced the hood and checked the tractor over and proclaimed everything OK. I'm going to call the Kubota Customer line and ask for an update this afternoon.

 

[jclaudii]

I am no expert to the bx, but does it not have multiple "safeties" that could be malfunctioning? The main one that comes to mind is a seat occupant switch then perhaps a HST pedal or Neutral Safety Switch. The other one would be a simple ground wire that could be making intermittent contact which causes the display fuse to eventually blow and could cause other electrical issues that could cause fuel to shut off as part of the "safety" system.

My second guess would be water.

Good Luck.