A Question for Sailors

/ A Question for Sailors #121  
This makes sense to me.

Steve

Yes, I have observed the 'pressure cooker' method of training junior officers (both RCN & RAN). It was brutal at times and the "well, I survived it... they can too!" regime took its toll.

'Back in the day' the RCN had a dedicated "Training Squadron" = 4 older destroyers that usually sailed in company. There were plenty of spare bunks for 5-6 junior officers to be put though their paces, not only in bridge watchkeeping but in learning to become a Divisional Officer (managing a Department & its personnel).

Minimum manning has eliminated this. Every bunk is an operational one.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #122  
Does the Navy allow cell phones on the bridge? Just speculating. LOL
 
/ A Question for Sailors #123  
Does the Navy allow cell phones on the bridge? Just speculating. LOL

In the modern age, there is usually a "ship's" official mobile phone on the bridge. There is also a satellite phone there too. They are only used for official communications.

Crew (Officers & Ratings) can certainly have their own mobile phones/tablets for off-watch use when announced that they can use them. There are regulations for what can be said on them from the ship to shore whilst the ship is deployed.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #124  
2 Navy ships involved in collisions...this is incredible!

If this was Navair, there would be an immediate safety stand-down.

They didn't say that when the second aircraft hit the twin towers.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #125  
Navy Punishes Leadership of USS Fitzgerald Following Deadly Collision Off Japan - NBC News

An "operational pause" has been ordered, but the McCain took the hit on the port side, meaning under normal ROW rules she was the stand-on vessel.

The USS John S. McCain Crash Isn'''t Exactly Like the USS Fitzgerald'''s | WIRED

But 10 more sailors are dead. It's been a long time since more sailors died than the Army or Marine Corps, but there it is.
USS John S. McCain: Remains Found of Some U.S. Sailors Missing in Warship Crash - NBC News


For those of you not familiar with AIS: "there's an app for that." MarineTraffic gives AIS reports. This is the inner harbor of Boston. The boat highlighted, Valkyrie, is a catamaran Ferry.
i-2TWtzXP-L.png


Our 22' RIB has a gps chartplotter and has optional transponders and decoders for AIS. Coupling the chart plotter with radar and AIS, even on a 20-something foot boat you see a vector representing the speed and course of each vessel. With AIS you know exactly what the other vessel is. You can set alarms if the vectors show you to be on a collision course, even miles away. This is appropriate because freighters, tankers, car carriers and other large ships in and out of Boston daily cannot stop or turn quickly, and often have tugs assisting.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #126  
When you promote CO's that are yes men, and are judged by how well they tow the lefty agenda over last 8 years you drive out the competent seamen, hence accidents. Operational competence and seamanship are not the most important part of a promotion or even in the top five. Hence accidents. The sailors don't get promoted, those who push the correct agenda do... I helped develop AIS... And electronic charts.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #127  
When you promote CO's that are yes men, and are judged by how well they tow the lefty agenda over last 8 years you drive out the competent seamen, hence accidents. Operational competence and seamanship are not the most important part of a promotion or even in the top five. Hence accidents. The sailors don't get promoted, those who push the correct agenda do... I helped develop AIS... And electronic charts.

Dang, Obummer still getting blamed:laughing:

Somehow I get the feeling if you aren't a "yes" man in todays administration, you ain't getting in LMAO.
 
/ A Question for Sailors
  • Thread Starter
#128  
This discussion has drifted off course into "(Un)Friendly Politics" waters. Let's steer it back to navigational issues.

Steve
 
/ A Question for Sailors #129  
How can anyone think this was an accident? Two American war ships were rammed by foreign merchant ships in three months? The USS John McCain was just accused by China of violating China and international law by it's activity in the South China sea. The USS Fitzgerald was in the South China sea just before it was rammed.
 
/ A Question for Sailors #130  
When you promote CO's that are yes men, and are judged by how well they tow the lefty agenda over last 8 years you drive out the competent seamen, hence accidents. Operational competence and seamanship are not the most important part of a promotion or even in the top five. Hence accidents. The sailors don't get promoted, those who push the correct agenda do... I helped develop AIS... And electronic charts.

SO TRUE!

Sad so many refuse to believe it because it does not fit their political agenda.
 
/ A Question for Sailors
  • Thread Starter
#131  
How can anyone think this was an accident? Two American war ships were rammed by foreign merchant ships in three months? The USS John McCain was just accused by China of violating China and international law by it's activity in the South China sea. The USS Fitzgerald was in the South China sea just before it was rammed.

I can think of two reasons right off the top of my head.

1. Although details are lacking, the Navy has just as much admitted that the Fitzgerald was at fault in the first collision. See this link posted by Garandman:
Navy Punishes Leadership of USS Fitzgerald Following Deadly Collision Off Japan - NBC News.

2. We don't know any details regarding the second collision.

Steve
 
/ A Question for Sailors #132  
How can anyone think this was an accident? Two American war ships were rammed by foreign merchant ships in three months? The USS John McCain was just accused by China of violating China and international law by it's activity in the South China sea. The USS Fitzgerald was in the South China sea just before it was rammed.

Exactly. Our ships are being targeted.

I can think of two reasons right off the top of my head.

1. Although details are lacking, the Navy has just as much admitted that the Fitzgerald was at fault in the first collision. See this link posted by Garandman:
Navy Punishes Leadership of USS Fitzgerald Following Deadly Collision Off Japan - NBC News.

2. We don't know any details regarding the second collision.

Steve

Of course they are blaming the officers. They can't publicly admit it was electronic terrorism and expose our flaws. Unfortunately some good mens careers will be the extra casualties and those that perished will be blamed on innocent men

Brett
 
/ A Question for Sailors #134  
Actually, there have been three collisions, the one that gets forgotten, most likely because there were no deaths, was when the Lake Champlain cruiser was hit by a South Korean trawler a few months back. My assumption on that one was that the cruiser "saw" the trawler but the cruiser was not going to move to avoid a collision since it was part of the screen to an aircraft carrier. I have not seen a report that says my assumption was right or wrong.

Why would one think this was anything other than yet another collision?

The USN has had many groundings and accidents in the last few years. A submarine ran into a sea mount, a ship ran into shallow water off of Hawaii, and a mine sweeper ran up on a reef. These were simply complete failures to navigate their vessels. No excuses what so ever in having this happen. None.

If the Chinese know where our ships and subs are located, their heading, and can then move reefs and sea mounts in front of USN vessels, well we better start learning how to speak Putonghua.

The USN has had multiple collisions between it's own vessels over the last few years as well. A USN sub surfaced into a Japanese trawler off Hawaii killing many of the vessel's crew. This was just an absolute failure on the part of the CO and crew.

I am not anti USN but they have a problem and I think the problem is up the chain of command from the ships COs. Here is a link to a merchant marine captain who has interesting comments that I think get to the heart of the problem:

Red Over Red, The Failure Of U.S. Navy Leadership gCaptain

Later,
Dan

Spot on Dan,

here is a closing quote from the article linked:

"This incident, like all maritime incidents before it, was the result of an insidious compilation of events (e.g. AIS systems or steering gear malfunctions) coupled in time with human mistakes and failure. But the mistakes of the junior officers pale in comparison to the mistakes made by senior Naval leadership (e.g. ignoring the concerns of junior officers and American merchant mariners) and, unlike the chain of command above Master, many of those junior officers are young and have time left in their career to learn from those mistakes and share them after being reassigned to another place in the fleet. That is, if they were given the chance. Given the current leaderships lack of confidence in their ability, that chance appears to be highly unlikely."
 
/ A Question for Sailors #135  
To give one an idea how busy the waterway is in the Malacca Straights and near Singapore, here is a screen shot from MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic

MalaccaStraits.jpg

You can click on the image to make it readable. :)

The ships are picked up on AIS which is a VHF transmitter/receiver system. Some private vessels only have a receiver so their vessel will NOT be shown, and many small boats do not run AIS at all. To put it another way, the image only shows the vessels transmitting AIS data so there are many, more boats in the area do not show up no AIS. They might show up on radar but not all boats will show up on radar.

Later,
Dan
 
/ A Question for Sailors #136  
They didn't say that when the second aircraft hit the twin towers.

Those aircraft weren't US Navy...
"Navair" is short for Naval Aviation. When there is a spurt of accidents, the fleet (aircraft) may be grounded until a root cause can be determined...this is referred to as a Safety Stand Down
 
/ A Question for Sailors
  • Thread Starter
#137  
To give one an idea how busy the waterway is in the Malacca Straights and near Singapore, here is a screen shot from MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic


You can click on the image to make it readable. :)

The ships are picked up on AIS which is a VHF transmitter/receiver system. Some private vessels only have a receiver so their vessel will NOT be shown, and many small boats do not run AIS at all. To put it another way, the image only shows the vessels transmitting AIS data so there are many, more boats in the area do not show up no AIS. They might show up on radar but not all boats will show up on radar.

Later,
Dan

Dan,

Here's a larger version of your attachment.

MalaccaStraits.jpg



I haven't seen any details on the collision, including its location on the chart. I don't know whether the CO and other senior officers were on the bridge in such busy waters, but they should have been.

Steve
 
/ A Question for Sailors #138  
This discussion has drifted off course into "(Un)Friendly Politics" waters. Let's steer it back to navigational issues.

Steve

Was the McCain at rest during the collision? I have not been following this.
 
/ A Question for Sailors
  • Thread Starter
#139  
Was the McCain at rest during the collision? I have not been following this.

I just read this.

The McCain suffered a steering failure as the warship was beginning its approach into the Strait of Malacca, causing it to collide with a commercial tanker, a Navy official told CNN.
The official said it was unclear why the crew couldn't use the ship's backup steering systems to maintain control.

Earlier, another US Navy official told CNN there were indications the destroyer experienced a loss of steering right before the collision, but steering had been regained afterward.
Swift lauded the "damage control efforts of the crew," such as helping injured sailors and fighting to control the flooding and stability of the ship.
"John S. McCain was up and running as an operational ship almost immediately after the collision. It was quite extraordinary," he said.

USS John McCain: 'Some remains' of missing 1 sailors found after collision - CNNPolitics

Steve
 
/ A Question for Sailors #140  
Again, I am not much of a conspiracy guy, buuut.... "a loss of steering right before the collision, and regain of steering right after".. Um.... boy, I would sure check that out really good and see if there was any way it could be hacked. It seems incredible, but...
 

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