Growing Organic Hay?

[M5farms]

All hay is organic

 

[Gary Fowler]

All hay is organic

Yeah everyone wants to get on the "organic bandwagon". I saw an advertisement for organic honey the other day. NOW I ask you, how can they certify that their bees have been on only organic raised flowers. To me all honey if not diluted with cane sugar syrup would be organic anyway.

 

[PILOON]

Organic maple syrup??
Has anyone heard of of fertilizing maple trees?

 

[Texasmark]

Organic maple syrup??
Has anyone heard of of fertilizing maple trees?

Yes if their cattle graze the area....cow dung. LMAO

 

[holeycow]

Yeah everyone wants to get on the "organic bandwagon". I saw an advertisement for organic honey the other day. NOW I ask you, how can they certify that their bees have been on only organic raised flowers. To me all honey if not diluted with cane sugar syrup would be organic anyway.

You don't know anything of what you speak wrt this particular subject. Your opinion, as well as a few others here is invalid wrt what is involved in organic certification of food. If you want to make valid comments folks, then don't just talk through your hats please.


We have about 1300acres of certified land. My hay is certified. I feed it all to my cows to produce organic, grassfed beef. I rent an additional 100 acres of hayland, which was certified after an affadavit was done.

Our honey cannot be certified because there are, from time to time, GMO crops and chemical sprays within 3 miles of our hives. Our bee yards are surrounded by our flowers and are always as far away from the neighbor's crops as possible. I don't believe our bees venture off our property much, if at all. However, the honey could only be certified if the offending crops were 3 miles or more away. That's how honey can be organic. Otherwise, it cannot. Through research it has been shown that honeybees rarely harvest from more than 2 miles from home. They harvest from as close to home as possible.

When bees collect pollen and nectar from conventional crops, they are also collecting chemical residues, which affects their health, as well as yours and mine through the honey.

There's a bit of misinformation rolling about in this thread...

And some facts.

In my area, certified hay is worth no more money than regular hay.

 

[cat fever]

In my area, certified hay is worth no more money than regular hay.[/QUOTE]



If this be the case, why go through the trouble of having certified hay?



Just reread your post. It's for the benefit of the cows, correct?

 

[brown40]

The difficulty with traditionally cultivated land will be to get the residual inorganics broken down enough to allow a balanced soil biome to re-establish. Initially the more sensitive microbes probably won't tolerate the condition left. Once the locked up phosphates get used up, glomalus and other mycorrhizae will be able to help with things, but they don't flourish in high phosphate conditions.
Lactobacillus will help chelate whats currently inaccessible and (generally) raise the pH to help get the microherd leaning toward aerobic and beneficial. IMO (Indigenous Micro-Organism) harvesting and propagation from healthy virgin soil of the type you wish to cultivate will repopulate the soil environment as it becomes viable.
What the basic difference is in what you are trying to grow. You don't worry about getting the Nitrogen into the corn, the Calcium to the tomatoes, or the Magnesium to the peppers--you feed the soil the stuff microbes that make healthy soil. You grow healthy soil communities, and they fill their niche by trading nutrients for plant exudates. The end result is a stronger immune system, larger root area, better nutrient uptake, increased drought and flood tolerance, improved heat tolerance, higher brix levels, and most importantly--more nutrient dense and flavorful crops.
Brassicas are a bit different--they will not establish relations with ecto- or endo-mycorrhizal fungi, but will enjoy the healthy soil anyway.
Compost, seaweed, untreated crop litter, animal manures--with lactobacillus/bokashi/Korean Natural Farming techniques, "garbage" and "food waste" are "soil food" in no time.
No offense to those who have gone through the expense of certification, but I hate the entire "organic" certification, movement, and the racket of increased expense and regulation the "organic" lobby have perpetuated. Good holistic farming practices that increase crop health and nutrient density don't matter if you can't buy into "The Club". Getting petrochemicals and salts out of soils shouldn't be hindered... creating an industry based on the process isn't helping get people in.

 

[sammyd]

Getting petrochemicals and salts out of soils shouldn't be hindered... creating an industry based on the process isn't helping get people in.

How is organic certification hindering anyone from using the practices you espouse?
It is there simply to ensure that the practices are being followed if someone decides to cash in on the higher prices available.

If the cost of certification is a problem, there are cost share programs available.

 

[holeycow]

The difficulty with traditionally cultivated land will be to get the residual inorganics broken down enough to allow a balanced soil biome to re-establish. Initially the more sensitive microbes probably won't tolerate the condition left. Once the locked up phosphates get used up, glomalus and other mycorrhizae will be able to help with things, but they don't flourish in high phosphate conditions.
Lactobacillus will help chelate whats currently inaccessible and (generally) raise the pH to help get the microherd leaning toward aerobic and beneficial. IMO (Indigenous Micro-Organism) harvesting and propagation from healthy virgin soil of the type you wish to cultivate will repopulate the soil environment as it becomes viable.
What the basic difference is in what you are trying to grow. You don't worry about getting the Nitrogen into the corn, the Calcium to the tomatoes, or the Magnesium to the peppers--you feed the soil the stuff microbes that make healthy soil. You grow healthy soil communities, and they fill their niche by trading nutrients for plant exudates. The end result is a stronger immune system, larger root area, better nutrient uptake, increased drought and flood tolerance, improved heat tolerance, higher brix levels, and most importantly--more nutrient dense and flavorful crops.
Brassicas are a bit different--they will not establish relations with ecto- or endo-mycorrhizal fungi, but will enjoy the healthy soil anyway.
Compost, seaweed, untreated crop litter, animal manures--with lactobacillus/bokashi/Korean Natural Farming techniques, "garbage" and "food waste" are "soil food" in no time.
No offense to those who have gone through the expense of certification, but I hate the entire "organic" certification, movement, and the racket of increased expense and regulation the "organic" lobby have perpetuated. Good holistic farming practices that increase crop health and nutrient density don't matter if you can't buy into "The Club". Getting petrochemicals and salts out of soils shouldn't be hindered... creating an industry based on the process isn't helping get people in.

Thank-you. And yes, the organic industry is being ruined by the regulators and big business.

 

[RickB]

Regulators can't begin to keep up with the charlatains who have certified production and buy nonorganic items for resale as organic when their own supply won't meet the demand. I see this locally all the time. The end user gets boned. Again.

 

[holeycow]

There are people in all walks of life that have no morals.

The vast majority of "organic" food does indeed meet spec. Obviously.

 

[sammyd]

Thank-you. And yes, the organic industry is being ruined by the regulators and big business.

It is not regulators that have done anything to organic, it is the organic producers themselves.
There was no regulation in the beginning and folks were claiming to be organic when they weren't. So after whining and complaining by organic producers the govt got involved.
However the rules and regs were decided upon by the organic producers themselves. And a few years ago some were updated with input from the producers again.
The govt doesn't even do the certification, that is left to private agencies.

 

[RickB]

Thank-you. And yes, the organic industry is being ruined by the regulators and big business.

There are people in all walks of life that have no morals.

The vast majority of "organic" food does indeed meet spec. Obviously.

So the regulators are ruining things for those with no morals? Good!

 

[joeu235]

I just tried cutting organic hay but then a little DEF got exhausted on it and now I'm screwed.

 

[sandman2234]

I just tried cutting organic hay but then a little DEF got exhausted on it and now I'm screwed.

Not screwed, appears you can re-certify in three years!!!
Now how to pay your bills for the time in between...sell what you have without the cert and hope it is enough!!
David from jax

 

[mopardude318]

If you eat healthy and exercise daily, you'll die anyway.

 

[tjkubota93]

If you eat healthy and exercise daily, you'll die anyway.

You will just last longer and be unhappy from not getting to have cheeseburgers.