Bought a farm, now what?

[cmaxwell]

My wife and I just bought a 71 acre farm with an existing cattle lease. To say I don't know what I'm doing would be an understatement. :laughing:

I started looking at this forum for suggestions on which tractor to purchase but I have a question the lease first. The farm is REALLY overgrown. Too overgrown to bush hog the vast majority of acreage. I will probably need to purchase or hire a forestry mulcher to start. After the fields are cleared the question will be who takes care of bush hogging the land, me or the cattle farmer? Is it customary for the cattle farmer leasing the land to plant and bush hog? Any suggestions on the going rate for leasing land for cattle?

Thanks for the help.

 

[M5farms]

every area is different as far as lease prices and agreements. First I would look at the lease and see what it spell out. Around here if I lease a property Im in full control and responsible for keeping it maintained. Most landowners want it to look pleasing and not be over grazed or completely stripped. Here the going rate for fenced property with water available is around 30 to 55 and acre. The non tillable land is on the low end but if its tillable you have to pay the 55 to keep it out of a row croppers hand.

 

[smstonypoint]

Annual average rental rates by county are reported at USDA/NASS QuickStats Ad-hoc Query Tool. Select survey, economics, expenses, rent, expense, etc.

Steve

 

[ericm979]

What's the lease say?

Forestry mulchers are REALLY expensive. The cheapest new PTO unit I have found was $12k and it's not got much capacity. "real" PTO mulchers cost about 3-4x that. If you want to run one off a PTO you'll need a lot of HP... probably much more than you'd need for any other task. That'd put you into a larger more expensive tractor than you need.

A PTO mulcher means you're operating in reverse. I do a lot of that when mowing with the rotary cutter as i'm working around trees and brush I've not yet cleared. I'm fit and my neck works but after a couple hours it gets old. A PTO mulcher would mean working in reverse all the time. Ugh. And you're limted to where you can operate a tractor. Slopes and wet areas may be off limits.

A track loader mulcher works in forwards and can go places a tractor can't. They make dedicated track loaders for mulching with shielded windows and air filtration. Those are $100k++ new. About half to 2/3 that used. I've been fantasy shopping buying a used one, getting the 10 acres of our land that's covered in brush cleared in a couple months and selling it. It's really thick brush and it's slow going with chainsaw and chipper. I'm working on the ugliest part right now and it's got me a frustrated at the slow pace, which is mostly due to the poison oak.

It's possible that in your area you can rent one or hire it done at a reasonable rate, unlike here.

 

[cmaxwell]

I've gotten estimates from guys that own forestry mulchers to clear our land. They want approximately $40k to do the job. I'm leaning towards just purchasing a track loader mulcher and doing it myself and then selling the unit afterwards. As if that wasn't a big enough decision, then I have to determine who bush hogs the land after it's cleared. If it's me, then that means a much bigger tractor than I had planned.

While approximately 65 of the 71 acres is currently leased, there is no written agreement. It was just a handshake and an exchange of $500. For the cattle farmer's protection and mine, I plan on executing a lease. My thinking is continue the lease at $500, I will clear the land but he has to take responsibility for bush hogging it. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Gary Fowler]

How big are the trees that you plan to mulch? A 50 HP or larger tractor with a heavy duty bush hog will make clean work of trees up to 4" in diameter. Our farm was grown up in weeds and saplings when we bought it, some of them 8" or so in diameter at the base. Many of them I was able to uproot using my FEL then haul them to a burn pile. The smaller stuff that my FEL could just ride over, was eat up by the bush hog. When the tree is bent over, easing into with a bush hog will cut it easily and once on the ground, the limbs can be sheared off with a bush hog.

Larger stuff you could just mow around and come back with a chainsaw to cut them flush with the ground OR just leave a few of the larger ones for shade for the cattle. As long as you don't have a thicket of trees, the occasional stray tree will not shade out the grass. You may need to trim the limbs up high so you can traverse under it with your tractor easily when mowing in the future.

 

[jeff9366]

Is it worth $500 to have someone else's cattle on your property, with the smell?

$5,000 maybe, but $500?

Lease may qualify you as a business, so you can depreciate equipment purchases.

 

[cmaxwell]

Good question regarding whether or not it's worth the hassle for $500. If the cattle farmer is only willing to give $500 and then I am the one having to maintain the land, then it's good-bye cows.

The pasture area has dozens of very large osage orange trees (bois d'arcs) that are 8"+ diameter. There is also several thousand feet of old fence line that is full of large hack berry trees. I've researched PTO mulchers and large bush hogs but the property is too overgrown for those.

 

[Oldoak]

Forestry mulchers for hire are expensive but if their estimates are around 40k, there must be quite a bit to deal will on you newly purchased farm. I think you would be overwhelmed to try and tackle it with anything less.

If the cattleman is leasing it now for $500, it should be worth a lot more once the overgrown land is cleared or at the least it should then be his obligation written in the new lease for him to maintain the property and not let the brush grow back beyond "x" amount of inches high. Depending on the size of his heard, the cattle will help keep some of it from growing back. Of course they will also fertilize it too.

There are many unknown particulars. The best any of us can really do is give you ideas and options to think about. Then you decide what is best for YOU.

 

[Liquidsilver]

I'm NOT an expert, but I had a 30 acre area with stuff that was far too big to bush hog... and I had a guy with a high lift (Cat 655 I think) grade it and then paid another guy to seed it. It cost about $6000, but now it's the best looking grass area I have on the property.

Now I can easily mow it with a rotary cutter with the rest of the property. Just a thought.

 

[smstonypoint]

What type of fencing and its condition?

Steve

 

[MortOz]

Don't worry about what all those other blokes have been saying - you bought a farm, all you need is a comfy chair, a nice shady tree and a drink. Sit down in the shade, and watch the big bucks roll in!
(At least that was my plan, but there seems to be a couple of minor steps I missed out on between signing the contract and buying the chair! Maybe you should listen to what those other blokes are saying ...)

 

[jeff9366]

I've gotten estimates from guys that own forestry mulchers to clear our land. They want approximately $40k to do the job. I'm leaning towards just purchasing a track loader mulcher and doing it myself and then selling the unit afterwards. As if that wasn't a big enough decision, then I have to determine who bush hogs the land after it's cleared. If it's me, then that means a much bigger tractor than I had planned.

While approximately 65 of the 71 acres is currently leased, there is no written agreement. It was just a handshake and an exchange of $500.

Which way you go depends are how much of a hurry you are in and what heavy equipment experience you have. If your heavy equipment experience is "0" do not discount the hazard you will avoid if a professional land clearing operation does the work. $40,000 will seem cheap if you are injured when doing work yourself and out of work for six months.

Most of the time I spend on my tractor involves tree work. If you have time to peck and are in GOOD PHYSICAL CONDITION, consider buying one or two Professional Quality chainsaw from Stihl for the bigger trees and a Brown "Tree Cutter" for your tractor, for clearing. Brown's are awesome. They are used for right-of-way maintenance along the Florida trail system, gas lines and under power lines. However, you would need at least an 80-horsepower tractor, which could be purchased used. Again, consider that chainsaw work is considered fairly hazardous. I have been using chainsaws for thirty years without an accident but the most common Emergency Room admittance for outside residential work is for chainsaw injuries. Not all from cuts.

VIDEO: BROWN TREE CUTTER - YouTube

LINK: Brown Manufacturing | 8.633.899 |

I probably would not buy a track loader for one year's use. Seems dead end in terms of accumulating useful farm/ranch experience.


Pretty cheap lease for the cow man. About $7.70 per acre. I speculate a cow or steer in Tennessee requires 2-1/2 acres per animal, unsupplemented by feed.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I would kill for 65 acres of pasture lol. My jaw dropped when you said 65 acres of leased pasture, I would assume that's a $500 deposit?

I have been trying to rent pasture for some time, anyone around here with the fence for cattle usually say piss off to $30-$60 an acre because they can hay it or have horse people rent it for lots more money, pasture renting is basically just keeping the grass cut down by livestock, that's all.

If I was you, I would kick the farmer off, kill all the grass/weeds, disk it and drill new quality pasture grass seed, around here a timothy/ orchard grass/ alfalfa mix/ clover mix does best.

After it's planted in new grass I would either have a local farmer hay it or I would stick 40-50 head of cattle on it.

Cattle are easy to take care of, just give them 1-2 acres per head and fresh water and let them fatten, Finnish them on corn or whatever you prefer.

Having a hay field keeps you from having to cut it, the farmer usually cuts it 3 times per year for hay, depending on your grow season, you and the farmer can work out the split.

The property the farmer rents is generally his responsibility, he mends your fence, he manages the cattle and replants bald spots ext. he should cut the grass if it seeds, grass that seeds stops growing and dies, it should be bush hogged if it goes to seed because the cattle can't keep up.

He should manage the ground for proper pasture rotation, pasture needs to recover from cattle, in order to keep the grass growing good a pasture rotation is needed.

He should fix any and all damage done by the cattle, every few years the pasture should be rejuvenated with a pasture rejuvenator, cattle pack the crap out of the ground which stunts the grass growth.

He may wish to fertilize the grass during a rotation and spot spray weeds with 2,4-D or a stronger herbicide. He should treat his cattle with a insecticide to keep the flys down, I treat and have fly traps around the property.

You won't smell dung unless the cattle are overcrowded like in a barn, if he sticks to 1-2 acres per head it won't be a issue.

As far as clearing pasture goes, buy a 40hp+ tractor, bush hog everything under 4in, chainsaw the rest and bush hog the over growth, that's where I would spray it with round up of a strong herbicide to kill everything, disk/drill new seed.

For that you would need a bush hog, 6-10ft disk or tiller, rent or buy a drill to plant.

 

[smstonypoint]

Here's a sample pasture lease -- https://cleveland.ces.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/pasture_cashlease.pdf?fwd=no -- one of many available online.

Steve

 

[cmaxwell]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. You've given us lots to think about. I'm sure I will have more questions as the research continues. Hopefully I will gain some knowledge from this whole experience that I can pay forward.

 

[Tractorable]

It'd be good if you could post some pictures of the property so we could better assess your needs. Thanks

 

[MidTn Mark]

Well, none of us know what kind of time, financial, and health resources you have. For me I would tackle this the same way you eat an elephant: 1 bite at a time. I would decide what tractor will suit your day to day needs, get a grapple and rotary cutter for it and then hire a guy with a dozen and knock 1/2 of it down. Then take your time getting ready to cut the logs into firewood. Or, get the trees all limbed and rent a big chipper. You can never have too much mulch

 

[AGRIMAN]

Frist of all, congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you are very proud as you should be.

Second, I do farm and rent/lease row crop, hay and pasture land. Now, $500 for 65 acres is cheap, but if I understood your comments correctly the majority of it is overgrown to the point it can't be cut with a bush hog.

That suggest to me that you currently don't have the best grazing, so the $500 might not be that bad for what grazing you have. With beef ranging from $1 to $1.30 per pound now, he is not getting rich on you.

Working agreements can vary, but generally the farmer handles the mowing, fertilizer and general maintance of the property. I have one leased hay field that the land own pays for all the lime. Why?, he says he likes the way we maintain his land and he just wants to help out some. It probably doesn't hurt that he needs a tax deduction.

On my rented pasture land, I will do general fence maintance and up keep, but if the fence is beyond repair and needs replacing, then I offer the land owner a few options as to how we can get it replaced.

If you haven't already, I would talk to the farmer and tell him your plans. If he is really interested in a long term lease, he may be willing to help you with some of the improvements you want to make.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. You've given us lots to think about. I'm sure I will have more questions as the research continues. Hopefully I will gain some knowledge from this whole experience that I can pay forward.

Whatever you do, don't get overwhelmed with the project, 65 acres of overgrown and thick pasture will prob take some time to clear, it won't be a fast process but a process that I personally would enjoy greatly.

You can now justify a large compact tractor or even a small utility tractor, quite a few attachments and maybe a new barn lol.

I would suggest unless your heart is in farming and tractoring not to tackle the project yourself, if you have no interest I would tell the farmer that I would pay for the diesel, seed, herbicide and fertilizer if he cleared the pasture, sprayed it and drilled it with new grass, then it would be quality pasture which will demand much more income.

It's one of those things that once it's done it will be good for years to come with minimal upkeep.