Redneck in training
Elite Member
We are on the rural water and they inform us (call our phone and send a letter) anytime our usage is larger than normal.
$11,000 Water Bill
- Thread starter justinramani
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Sysop
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Excuses, excuses, excuses... You paid the GC to build you a home. It comes with a warranty. There are issues within the warranty period. All of the necessary who, what, why, where, and when is accounted for. Anything else is just excuses...
Yea, $11,000 worth of water delivered to your home isn't without cost to the water department. They notice these spikes immediately and know more water is flowing to a certain area than normal, and with newer systems they know which house. To not monitor and notify for potential issues could be fathomed as somewhat negligent on their part. But, perhaps they're just greedy and the department director saw the spike and started planning a vacation to go on after his next bonus. Or, perhaps they thought you were filling a new swimming pool.
The installer of the pipe may or may not have been licensed, permitted, and may not have used proper install processes. This is all bad, but all easy to sort out what is what and put the blame where the fault(s) are.
The inspectors are there to ensure things are built to code. Code for a given area is generally made up of what works in that area to keep peoples safe, and protect against various "bad building" practices. Do they inspect everything? Everytime? Probably not. There is a lot more construction goes on than there is inspectors to go around and check things out. Perhaps we should all pay more in taxes and building permits to pay for more inspectors to do a more complete job of inspecting things?
Nope, all are excuses. The GC was paid to ensure it was done properly.
Inspectors in many cases are just used to keep people hiring contractors rather than tackling tasks themselves and are used as a "feel good" measure so people think their contractors are doing a top notch job. There have been many cases of people overbuilding and not passing inspections simply because it wasn't done "to code". Overbuilt can now be a bad thing... We don't need more inspectors, we just need greater responsibility in our GCs.
The installer was the hands of the GC. It was the GC's responsibility to ensure all licensing, permits, and processes were up to a fail-safe standard. It is his name on the line after all.
The water department is like any other public service; the level of service varies day to day. Fact is, $11k in water was delivered through your meter to you. Your GC, the installer, and the inspector all failed well before any failure of the water department; so whatever the reason your only notification was the bill, it's not really their fault. They delivered the service you wanted without failure, just more of it than you wanted; but how were they to know that and why would they care. It is a new(ish) build, there isn't even a year of history for comparison.
Drop it in the GC's lap, let him know (certified mailed letter is best) in the clearest, most simplest terms, exactly what it will take to rectify the situation. Tell him how you expect it to be fixed (Eddie is spot on), when you expect it to be fixed, and that you expect the bill (current and until it is fixed) to be taken care of before any adverse additions are made to your credit report. Don't worry about any of the other who, what, why, where, or when; that is all the GC's concern. Don't worry about telling him about the consequences of non-compliance with your demands, that can be the "line in the sand" that creates a standoff on the situation. He will know the potential consequences without them being pointed out. Fact you already filed a complaint with the BBB shows you are willing to bring in outside resources to help provide resolution, even though the BBB has no teeth and anyone can file a complaint about anything.
I wish you the best on a speedy resolution for this and thank you for the service of you and your wife.
Yea, $11,000 worth of water delivered to your home isn't without cost to the water department. They notice these spikes immediately and know more water is flowing to a certain area than normal, and with newer systems they know which house. To not monitor and notify for potential issues could be fathomed as somewhat negligent on their part. But, perhaps they're just greedy and the department director saw the spike and started planning a vacation to go on after his next bonus. Or, perhaps they thought you were filling a new swimming pool.
The installer of the pipe may or may not have been licensed, permitted, and may not have used proper install processes. This is all bad, but all easy to sort out what is what and put the blame where the fault(s) are.
The inspectors are there to ensure things are built to code. Code for a given area is generally made up of what works in that area to keep peoples safe, and protect against various "bad building" practices. Do they inspect everything? Everytime? Probably not. There is a lot more construction goes on than there is inspectors to go around and check things out. Perhaps we should all pay more in taxes and building permits to pay for more inspectors to do a more complete job of inspecting things?
Nope, all are excuses. The GC was paid to ensure it was done properly.
Inspectors in many cases are just used to keep people hiring contractors rather than tackling tasks themselves and are used as a "feel good" measure so people think their contractors are doing a top notch job. There have been many cases of people overbuilding and not passing inspections simply because it wasn't done "to code". Overbuilt can now be a bad thing... We don't need more inspectors, we just need greater responsibility in our GCs.
The installer was the hands of the GC. It was the GC's responsibility to ensure all licensing, permits, and processes were up to a fail-safe standard. It is his name on the line after all.
The water department is like any other public service; the level of service varies day to day. Fact is, $11k in water was delivered through your meter to you. Your GC, the installer, and the inspector all failed well before any failure of the water department; so whatever the reason your only notification was the bill, it's not really their fault. They delivered the service you wanted without failure, just more of it than you wanted; but how were they to know that and why would they care. It is a new(ish) build, there isn't even a year of history for comparison.
Drop it in the GC's lap, let him know (certified mailed letter is best) in the clearest, most simplest terms, exactly what it will take to rectify the situation. Tell him how you expect it to be fixed (Eddie is spot on), when you expect it to be fixed, and that you expect the bill (current and until it is fixed) to be taken care of before any adverse additions are made to your credit report. Don't worry about any of the other who, what, why, where, or when; that is all the GC's concern. Don't worry about telling him about the consequences of non-compliance with your demands, that can be the "line in the sand" that creates a standoff on the situation. He will know the potential consequences without them being pointed out. Fact you already filed a complaint with the BBB shows you are willing to bring in outside resources to help provide resolution, even though the BBB has no teeth and anyone can file a complaint about anything.
I wish you the best on a speedy resolution for this and thank you for the service of you and your wife.
Sigarms
Super Member
Another reason why this is a news worthy story.
My buddy just had a in ground pool built. 23k for it. Didn't realize filling it would be half the cost of the pool!
Is a person responsible for their usage? Heck yeh. My power billed doubled years ago, turns out my well pump was running continuously. I paid the electric bill. There is however a point IMO where it gets ridiculous per the use (and the bill) where it's apparent that per the usage spike, there is a issue, and if the end user is notified of that spike, the issue could be resolved quicker, perhaps saving money.
sixdogs
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Another reason why this is a news worthy story.
My buddy just had a in ground pool built. 23k for it. Didn't realize filling it would be half the cost of the pool!
..
.
For a moment of levity in a great thread, my brother-in-law came home early one day and heard the water running when he went in the house. He couldn't find the problem until he went outside and saw his neighbor had run a hose from BIL over to his house to fill his new pool. I guess that he, too was shocked at how much it cost to fill it. Who would do this?
Back on topic, I have seen these things before and I'll bet the water company knocks the bill down to make it easier on all involved and that the contractor, or his sub will foot the bill and fix the problem. They'll whine a bit, as you would expect, but stuff happens. That's why people have insurance.
The GC has every reason to fix this. He's in business, has attachable assets, has subs and this is his future livelihood. As well, I have seen a homeowner's insurance company collect from a builder for a claim the homeowner submitted on their own insurance. The homeowner's insurance company paid the bill (roof and chimney facing) and then collected from the contractor or their insurance company. Everyone acted like it happened all the time so I just presumed it did. As well, I understood this to be a couple years after the so-called warranty had expired.
Why were there 2 bills? Just curious if this was for 2 months or something else.
Coyote machine
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Quote: Sigarms: "By your own reasoning, if this issue would of happened 2 years down the road, the OP would of been stuck with a $11,000 water bill with no recourse because "it is what it is".
Correct. Life's a *****, then you die. Life's not fair, and bad things happen to good people. And so on. There are not checks and balances for everything one may encounter in life,
so one must pay attention, hire reputable people and deal with the consequences when things go wrong. NO guarantees in life, just on things that come with an actual guarantee, then it's up to one to get the guarantee honored. End of sad, sad story.
"As of now, the only recourse is to hope the builder pays for the 11k water bill, and the key question is he legally responsible for it? I don't know, do you? The builder is replacing his work and is standing behind his work, the question is the water bill".
Yeah, pretty much. Builders work failed, caused huge bill, direct connection to builder and guarantee on his work, house build. Again end of sad, sad story.
The next question then beceomes exactly how much time and money it will take on the OP parts to get this resolved by the court system.
Us taxpayers basically pay for the Jag system. Homeowner benefits from this side benefit of his service to the US military/government. Cost would be charged back onto the builder as is customary in a case where damages are incurred. No costs out of pocket to the homeowner. End of sad, sad story.
Currently I know of a case where someones password was hacked, and they ran up a 9k phone bill in one month. The phone company wants their 9k but the end user is claiming that they didn't make the calls. Is the end user responsible for 9k worth of phone calls if they didn't actually make them?
Irrelevant! No one is guaranteeing that your someone is protected from the charges of a hacker by a guarantee, or any sort of insurance. Coincidentally, I just read about a local town that had their phone system hacked and now owes the phone company some ridiculous amount of money for long distance calls. Sad story, but the phone company is due their monies; services were provided, calls were made. Too bad for the town, but the bill is the bill. What the town needs is better hackproof security for their switchboard.
"I can tell you for a fact that Duke energy (largest energy provider in the state of NC) knows EXACTLY what people consume power wise and can break it down anyway you want per household use by the day, month, quarter, semi annual or the year".
Good for them. They're huge, and a regional power supply company/utility. They're also an electric company, and much more sophisticated in their providing of electricity than a water company that just provides water running through a mechanically run metering system. Could water companies break down every gallon of water passing out of their pipes? Probably, BUT at what additional cost to consumers? NOT their responsibility to keep track of every drop of water going out to each consumer in relation to if a particular month's usage is in excess of normal use, UNLESS they chose to provide that additional service for additional cost. NO utility is going to provide data of that nature without additional costs to the consumer.
All responsibility in this water bill matter is on the builder and his guarantee on the homeowner's property. End of story. Case closed. Move on.
Correct. Life's a *****, then you die. Life's not fair, and bad things happen to good people. And so on. There are not checks and balances for everything one may encounter in life,
so one must pay attention, hire reputable people and deal with the consequences when things go wrong. NO guarantees in life, just on things that come with an actual guarantee, then it's up to one to get the guarantee honored. End of sad, sad story.
"As of now, the only recourse is to hope the builder pays for the 11k water bill, and the key question is he legally responsible for it? I don't know, do you? The builder is replacing his work and is standing behind his work, the question is the water bill".
Yeah, pretty much. Builders work failed, caused huge bill, direct connection to builder and guarantee on his work, house build. Again end of sad, sad story.
The next question then beceomes exactly how much time and money it will take on the OP parts to get this resolved by the court system.
Us taxpayers basically pay for the Jag system. Homeowner benefits from this side benefit of his service to the US military/government. Cost would be charged back onto the builder as is customary in a case where damages are incurred. No costs out of pocket to the homeowner. End of sad, sad story.
Currently I know of a case where someones password was hacked, and they ran up a 9k phone bill in one month. The phone company wants their 9k but the end user is claiming that they didn't make the calls. Is the end user responsible for 9k worth of phone calls if they didn't actually make them?
Irrelevant! No one is guaranteeing that your someone is protected from the charges of a hacker by a guarantee, or any sort of insurance. Coincidentally, I just read about a local town that had their phone system hacked and now owes the phone company some ridiculous amount of money for long distance calls. Sad story, but the phone company is due their monies; services were provided, calls were made. Too bad for the town, but the bill is the bill. What the town needs is better hackproof security for their switchboard.
"I can tell you for a fact that Duke energy (largest energy provider in the state of NC) knows EXACTLY what people consume power wise and can break it down anyway you want per household use by the day, month, quarter, semi annual or the year".
Good for them. They're huge, and a regional power supply company/utility. They're also an electric company, and much more sophisticated in their providing of electricity than a water company that just provides water running through a mechanically run metering system. Could water companies break down every gallon of water passing out of their pipes? Probably, BUT at what additional cost to consumers? NOT their responsibility to keep track of every drop of water going out to each consumer in relation to if a particular month's usage is in excess of normal use, UNLESS they chose to provide that additional service for additional cost. NO utility is going to provide data of that nature without additional costs to the consumer.
All responsibility in this water bill matter is on the builder and his guarantee on the homeowner's property. End of story. Case closed. Move on.
Sigarms
Super Member
Dang, it's so easy, I'd want you for my lawyer!
ANYONE involved with the court system knows nothing is as easy as it seems.
I know first hand of a women arrested for embezzlement. Caught red handed, for well over 6 figures. She was arrested last year, trial date still not in sight and she's still at home doing whatever she wants to do.
There are other ways to skin a cat than to lawyer up...
Coyote machine
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For a mere $100,000 retainer I'm available, after I take the builder to court and whip his sorry azz!
I know the costs sometimes associated with going to court. I spent over $20,000 with a criminal defense attorney to get to an agreed settlement against the State for a bogus charge against a family member. My attorney made the State Trooper look like the idiot he is in front of the judge. The State's defense attorney was also made to look like the fool he is. Still a lengthy probation and fines were awarded to the State as part of the agreed settlement. This rather than possible jail time and a record for life. It took time and lots of money to get justice, but barely satisfaction. The media would have done nothing to help, even though there were egregious errors and omissions on the State's part in the arrest and subsequent proceedings.
And, for the record, this isn't about how to skin a cat; it is however about the way to resolve it properly by holding the responsible party: the builder, RESPONSIBLE.
Once again, case closed. Plaintiff win!:dance1:
I know the costs sometimes associated with going to court. I spent over $20,000 with a criminal defense attorney to get to an agreed settlement against the State for a bogus charge against a family member. My attorney made the State Trooper look like the idiot he is in front of the judge. The State's defense attorney was also made to look like the fool he is. Still a lengthy probation and fines were awarded to the State as part of the agreed settlement. This rather than possible jail time and a record for life. It took time and lots of money to get justice, but barely satisfaction. The media would have done nothing to help, even though there were egregious errors and omissions on the State's part in the arrest and subsequent proceedings.
And, for the record, this isn't about how to skin a cat; it is however about the way to resolve it properly by holding the responsible party: the builder, RESPONSIBLE.
Once again, case closed. Plaintiff win!:dance1:
TheMan419
Veteran Member
I would call base legal.
As for the advice to tell the builder HOW to fix it, that is poor advice. If that fix fails the builder is off the hook because you told him how to fix it and he did what you said. If you told him to fix it by duct taping a bunch of drinking straws together and he did that he is off the hook.
I realize that money is always an issue... however the ideal situation would be to get a different plumbing contractor out to look over the problem and advise you on the cost and method of fixing the problem. Then ask the contractor to foot that bill and have the plumbing company do and warrant the repair.
The good thing for you and your wife is that you have JAG to give you some "free" legal advice.
Were I licensed to practice in your state I'd take your case in a heart beat.
(I say "free" because I realize you are paying for it by serving the country and I appreciate that more than I can express).
As for the advice to tell the builder HOW to fix it, that is poor advice. If that fix fails the builder is off the hook because you told him how to fix it and he did what you said. If you told him to fix it by duct taping a bunch of drinking straws together and he did that he is off the hook.
I realize that money is always an issue... however the ideal situation would be to get a different plumbing contractor out to look over the problem and advise you on the cost and method of fixing the problem. Then ask the contractor to foot that bill and have the plumbing company do and warrant the repair.
The good thing for you and your wife is that you have JAG to give you some "free" legal advice.
Were I licensed to practice in your state I'd take your case in a heart beat.
(I say "free" because I realize you are paying for it by serving the country and I appreciate that more than I can express).
Sigarms
Super Member
Ultimately this is about the quickest and easiest way to resolve this situation for the OP (who happens to be stuck in a combat zone) so he isn't stuck with a 11k water bill.
Lawyering up is one option, but at this point due to the OP's situation, should be he last resort IMO until other avenues (such as seeing what a news article could do) are tried. I could be wrong (nothing out of the norm), but I do see the possiblity of the GC, the guy who laid the pipe and the water company splitting the bill so this goes away other than perhaps running the chance it does make the news.
