Will 2-4-D Kill Bermuda Grass Seedlings?

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I bought a house on 16 acres, and the pasture is a disaster. The prior owner got old and let it go, and about 2 acres of the upper pasture was infested with cockleburs.

So I nuked it with Roundup last fall, chiseled it, disked it twice and drug it level.

I broadcast bermuda seed 2 weeks ago. I now have some seedlings coming up (thick in some areas, but sparse in others).

The problem is that the cocklebur are sprouting by the hundreds.

I won't put up with cockleburs, so I'm thinking of nuking them with 2-4-D. Is the 2-4-D going to kill the tender young bermuda seedlings?

If so, then that's just the high cost of low living. I'm going to get rid of the cockleburs if I have to kill every living thing on this place.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

P.S.: I posted this in the haying forum because I intend to use this land for pasture and hay, and I figure hay folks would know more about chemicals on new grass seedlings than anyone else.

 

[jeff9366]

IMAGE is a specialty herbicide for Sand Burrs/Cockleburrs. Even so, IMAGE has required two applications in my experience. IMAGE is sold in Lowes and Home Depots in Florida.

2,4-D will not phase Sand Burrs/Cockleburrs.

Roundup/Glycophosphate will kill Sand Burrs/Cockleburrs but it usually takes four applications.

Seed is viable in the ground at least three years. If you disc repeatedly Spring/Summer/Fall BEFORE nuts are set on plants, you will gradually reduce the population. As you probably know, those burrs are nuts, which contain about eighty seeds per nut. Nuts can go through a burn pile fire yet seeds remain viable.

Digging the buggers out with a hand trowel is effective but slow. That is my lawn eradication process.

I would track down IMAGE.

 

[Tx Jim]

I sure thought 2-4D would kill Cockleburrs but not kill grass burrs.

 

[Texasmark]

I was on the Texas A&M University (TAMU) Extension Services www as I recall when I learned something about 2-4-D. Plants with the mixed up support structure in the leaves are affected by it. Grasses have a parallel support structure and aren't affected.

So what I gleaned out of that was to look at a plant and look at the leaves. If it has parallel grain structure, like some tree leaves, it may stun it for a few days but that's all. I know that if you want to kill brush....aka small trees and bushes and all you have to use P+D which is Pecularin (or some spelling similar) + 2-4-D....a controlled herbicide in TX. The P is in for the parallel grain plants, the D is for the rest. Not my info, something I learned over the years.

Added: I have fabulous Bermuda hay patch today which has not been reseeded/sprigged since using 2-4-D at least 2 applications over several years, both Amine and the other...milky looking recipe. Supports what the TAMU guys said. Course it has been renovated with my Hay King pasture renovator, fed several nice doses of PNK + minerals, and the right spring rains at the right time.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I sure thought 2-4D would kill Cockleburrs but not kill grass burrs.

Yes, it will kill cockleburs. I think Jeff is referring to sandburs, which I'm not familiar with.

I HAVE to get rid of the cockleburs. They are the bane of my existence at the moment.

I suspect my young tender Bermuda seedlings won't fare very well under 2-4-D, but thought I would check here first.

If I KNEW the 2-4-D was going to kill the seedlings, I'd just nuke the pasture with Roundup and be done with it. I can re-seed sooner after Roundup than I can with 2-4-D.

 

[Texasmark]

Yes, it will kill cockleburs. I think Jeff is referring to sandburs, which I'm not familiar with.

I HAVE to get rid of the cockleburs. They are the bane of my existence at the moment.

I suspect my young tender Bermuda seedlings won't fare very well under 2-4-D, but thought I would check here first.

If I KNEW the 2-4-D was going to kill the seedlings, I'd just nuke the pasture with Roundup and be done with it. I can re-seed sooner after Roundup than I can with 2-4-D.

The container of 2-4-D does have a caution as I recall. Read the label. I think there is a time line on bermuda seedlings, letting them get established before you chase the burs. You don't want to hit them now anyway. I always hit mine just as the burs blooms were forming giving me plenty of leaf area to pick up the inoculant but they still be in the active growth stage where the inoculant is most effective.

I don't know what kind of burs they have in Florida, but in Texas burs hate it big time. 1 application back in the early 80's and haven't had a bur on the place since.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Texasmark, thanks for the advice. I see new cockleburs coming up every day, so you're right. I need to be patient and let as many of them sprout as possible before I spray. I just don't want to wait too long and let them start forming the burrs (i.e., seedpods).

 

[Tx Jim]

I just don't want to wait too long and let them start forming the burrs (i.e., seedpods).

Cockleburrs: I heard their seeds called Porcupine eggs. The seeds are a pain to remove from a horses mane/tail or cows switch.

 

[kthompson]

I just had a few acres sprigged of coastal bermuda and 2 4 D is listed to use on it. It will be a couple of hours before I can post that info but will as the company but will.

 

[Texasmark]

Cockleburrs: I heard their seeds called Porcupine eggs. The seeds are a pain to remove from a horses mane/tail or cows switch.

That is a perfect description. Uncanny how you can just touch one of those things and it puncture and hold whatever touches it.

 

[kthompson]

Here is link to answer the chemical question and also pest questions for you. Think this is the exact page you want. The people who sprigged mine show 2,4-D Weedon LV4, Weedar 64 and then say there are others you can use. Not sure all control the weeds you want so check the label. Here sand spurs have a narrow list of herbicides that work.

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/agronomy/pestmanagement17/weed control in forages.pdf

 

[joeu235]

http://georgiaforages.caes.uga.edu/pests/WeedPerGrass.pdf

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Cockleburrs: I heard their seeds called Porcupine eggs. The seeds are a pain to remove from a horses mane/tail or cows switch.

They are indeed hard to remove from animals, especially animals that don't want to be messed with.

Interesting story. A guy went walking in the woods/meadow one day, and came back with cockleburs on him. He was a scientist of some sort and became interested in them and studied the form of their spines and the hooks on the end of them. He had an idea and started working on it. Cut to the chase. Eventually, his walk in the woods resulted in the invention of . . . velcro.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

kthompson and joeu235, thanks for that information. Based on that info, I think I'm going to hit it with 2,4-D Amine at a rate of 1 quart / acre. If that doesn't get all the cockleburs, I'll hit it again in 30-45 days. That info says the minimum time between applications is 30 days, and no more than 2 applications per season.

I may damage the young tender bermuda seedlings, but hopefully enough will survive to have a stand of grass. I can always overseed it later.

 

[kthompson]

Poopdeck Pappy, unless you really put heavy dosage of 24d on the bermuda don't think it will harm it. I would wait on my second application as long as the label shows you can (weed height) and if thrid crop of cockleburs hit you move to a herbicide without 24d in it. I really do not think if you pay decent attention the cockleburs will be easy to control.

 

[kthompson]

Poopdeck Pappy, if you have ANY concern on how any herbicide may affect your crop of any type then do the test method, using ratio you plan to test spray some of the weeds and crop and with 24D you will know in say 3 days, 5 for certain. It acts much faster than roundup. Some broadleafs will be showing signs of wilt within 24 hours if all is correct, ratio, chemical mixed properly. Do read label to see if you need surfactant (wetting agent) with it and if so what type. No dishwashing detergent is not the same as some types are.

You will find chemicals that tell you can tank mix them with others and I have had mixed results with tank mixes. If you do a tank mix do read the labels on each chemical to verify they can be and then mix in the order they tell you to. Think have seen it on tractorbynet but there is thoughts on the acid level of the water being used. Have seen some argument each way. We have a mixture of water sources here from wells to two different public water companies. My chemical company told me last year one issue I was having was the public water company I have. They use real deep wells and I have a friend who raises about 100 acres of coastal bermuda and he now test each tank of water and to get the PH he wants using vinegar.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would think that cockleburs could be controlled easily with just regular mowing. A couple of years of mowing to keep them from going to seed and your problem would be non-existent. The burrs will always be above your grass so you can just set your mower to mow right above the grass tops to keep the burrs from seeding out.
Many years ago, on the farm, we used to be able to buy 2-4D in a wax bar that we dragged over the tops of crops to kill the weeds but not get anything on the crops. They also have the headers with saturated cloth that do the same thing. You may look into these and see if they are still available rather than spraying. This method only doses the weeds rather than covering everything in the pasture, so it takes much less chemical.

 

[RandyT]

2,4-d is for the control of broadleaf plants, and will not effect grass.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I have been applying and recommending herbicides for about 35 years, including thousands of acres of 2,4-D.

I have 2 main recommendations for applying any and all pesticides.

1. READ THE LABEL. It will tell you every thing you can use it on. When you can use it, what rate to use, what growth stage you can use it, and when NOT to use it.

2. FOLLOW THE LABEL. The manufacturers have spent millions on research of their products and they know how they work. They are required to do this in order to get the label. I don't have time or money to do research on how these products will work. And, the label is the law. If you don't follow the label, you are breaking the law.

Another very important issue when applying pesticides is calibrating your equipment. I know this is something that is not done very often, especially on small equipment, but I think it's very important. Putting 2 oz per gallon of Roundup in a sprayer could equal anywhere from a few ounces per acre to hundreds of ounces per acre, depending on how many gallons per acre your sprayer is applying.

If you can't find the proper pesticides to use for your situation, contact your county agent. I know that we are very fortunate in Louisiana to have a very strong Extension service at LSU, and some other states may not have such good support, but I think its a great place to start.