Comparison Decision time. L4701/L3901/L4060/L3560/B3350

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I don't know why people assume a four-cylinder would be smoother than a three-cylinder, but a lot of people do -- perhaps it's the "more is better" attitude, or just the intuitive thought that more pistons and firing pulses are smoother. But an inline-four has some inherent balance problems -- for one, pistons move in pairs. This leads to a secondary imbalance that can be quite bad. Auto manufacturers deal with this on larger inline-fours by installing balance shafts, which add counter-rotating weights to counteract the reciprocating mass.

There's some information you can read here:

Engine balance - Wikipedia

Couple snips:







A lot of that is engineering gibberish and not as cleanly written as I'd like, but frankly I'm an engineer and I'd probably do a worse job if I tried to explain it! I don't want to hijack the OP's thread further, but there is a ton of information on the internet if anyone wants to read further. Bottom line to me is that there are definite reasons to choose certain engine configurations, but nobody should conclude that a four-cylinder tractor engine is smoother or more desirable than a three-cylinder, all else equal. It's mainly size/packaging constraints that drive us into fours as tractor size and HP goes up, not because they are better engines.

Anyone who has run the very common B3200/L3200 four/three engines of the same displacement and HP has discovered this first hand. The difference is so significant, it's hard to miss. It's the kind of thing that is so much easier to experience/realize in person than to explain. Sort of a "seat of the pants" engineering analysis.

I got ya, in my mind two up and two down pistons would be a better counter balance than two down and one up but if I understood that right 3 cylinder don't fire that way, my claim was based on a even number of pistons over just having more pistons, I thought a 2 cylinder would be smoother than a 3 and a 4 equally as smooth as a 2 just more displacement. So I guess now is a good time to exit while I'm behind

 

[motownbrowne]

Another thing about the snowblowers. Even though the basic L series doesn't have a mid PTO, there are kits to run a snowblower on the front of just about any tractor. Basically you mount the blower on a frame up front and run a long PTO shaft under the tractor to a gear box in the back. The box transfers power from the rear PTO. I don't know where to buy one, or how much they cost, but they're out there.

 

[rScotty]

I got ya, in my mind two up and two down pistons would be a better counter balance than two down and one up but if I understood that right 3 cylinder don't fire that way, my claim was based on a even number of pistons over just having more pistons, I thought a 2 cylinder would be smoother than a 3 and a 4 equally as smooth as a 2 just more displacement. So I guess now is a good time to exit while I'm behind

Balance seems a fascinating subject....and it's one I've never really looked into in depth. I do know that we had a 3 cylinder car for ten or 15 years back in the 60s & 70s.... & and a 3 cylinder 33 hp tractor for about 20 years - and both were noticibly smoother than 1,2, or 4. But that being the case, why wouldn't a six cylinder be even smoother yet? Beats me, but in my experience they are not. The 3 cylinder machines we had were smoother running at all speeds.
rScotty

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Kubota's are made in Vietnam aren't they? I know most are assembled in Georgia.

Seriously??? Top of the line, Japanesy... Vietnam makes oxen to pull things, pretty sure...

 

[ProjectKing]

Seriously??? Top of the line, Japanesy... Vietnam makes oxen to pull things, pretty sure...

Yeah Kubota is basically equivalent to Toyota in terms of quality and refinement.

Now now... they make some really nice Colombia and LL Bean outwear in Vietnam. (0:

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Seriously??? Top of the line, Japanesy... Vietnam makes oxen to pull things, pretty sure...

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha this was sooooo funny, that made my day.

Bahahahahahahahaha

Just, just

Bahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cat_Driver]

Tractors and breast are always better if they are bigger. Most buy just what they need then find out that the tractor is a valuable tool, and use it for more things, then find out they bought too small, and then need to buy again. Buying bigger now saves you a lot of headaches later true the people here that are telling you that because we were ll you at one time, and we all learned the hard way.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha this was sooooo funny, that made my day.

Bahahahahahahahaha

Just, just

Bahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, you seemed like you needed a little education. So... Japan = Kubota, and Vietnam = Oxen.

 

[kubotacres]

Tractors and breast are always better if they are bigger. .

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Tractors and breast are always better if they are bigger. Most buy just what they need then find out that the tractor is a valuable tool, and use it for more things, then find out they bought too small, and then need to buy again. Buying bigger now saves you a lot of headaches later true the people here that are telling you that because we were ll you at one time, and we all learned the hard way.

Gravity is much kinder to massive tractors

 

[rjsats]

To all who helped me out, thank you very much. I talked it over again with a trusted friend and considered all the info on here, and went through the Kubota site again, and looked at some other recommended models even that people suggested on here. I'm nearly certain I'm going to go with the L4060, almost exclusively due to the neck pain aspect, otherwise would be buying the L4701. I'll probably have a few more questions regarding implements, etc... at some point, but this really helped me out. Thanks fellas.

 

[Musdalen]

rjsats,
your thread and decision is interesting to me. I have almost exactly the same situation and needs as you do. I'm slowing narrowing it down to an L3901 and a JD 3039R. My one difference is that I don't really want a blower. I have a long drive and would rather use a blade on the front loader (easier switching with the bucket that I also need in winter) or just use the grader blade on a 3 pt when the snows are lighter (normal). I am curious why you want a blower over a front blade. Can the blower handle deeper stuff? If so, that's rarely an issue for me, but if for some other reason, I'm not seeing, perhaps that would apply to me.

I like the 3901 and 3039 because they are going to be easier to get around on in the timber. My current 8N is good at that and keeps me away from the bigger is better syndrome for my situation.

 

[ProjectKing]

rjsats,
your thread and decision is interesting to me. I have almost exactly the same situation and needs as you do. I'm slowing narrowing it down to an L3901 and a JD 3039R. My one difference is that I don't really want a blower. I have a long drive and would rather use a blade on the front loader (easier switching with the bucket that I also need in winter) or just use the grader blade on a 3 pt when the snows are lighter (normal). I am curious why you want a blower over a front blade. Can the blower handle deeper stuff? If so, that's rarely an issue for me, but if for some other reason, I'm not seeing, perhaps that would apply to me.

I like the 3901 and 3039 because they are going to be easier to get around on in the timber. My current 8N is good at that and keeps me away from the bigger is better syndrome for my situation.

I would avoid the small Deeres. I prefer Kubota

 

[Musdalen]

I would avoid the small Deeres. I prefer Kubota

let's not divert from the OP's interests, but perhaps you could PM me with a reason for this - as I'm seriously considering one.

 

[ProjectKing]

let's not divert from the OP's interests, but perhaps you could PM me with a reason for this - as I'm seriously considering one.

I would recommend researching various small John Deere tractors and their reliability. Then you can form your own opinion.

Kubota is pretty much king of little tractors. And Deere is king of 100+ HP tractors. I know a dealer that sells Kubota and Deere. He has both so his high dollar customers stay happy. Kubota for little tractor and Deere for big.

 

[mike69440]

I would avoid the small Deeres. I prefer Kubota

Refining the above a bit.
I would avoid the (economy models) of the small Deeres. For the most part, they are a Deere by label and paint only.

 

[Fallon]

let's not divert from the OP's interests, but perhaps you could PM me with a reason for this - as I'm seriously considering one.

I looked at Deere & Kubota when I got my L3200 a few years ago & went Kubota. The economy machines were pretty similar but Kubota won out. I think they are still the same machines only with tier 4 emissions now.

My reasons for going Kubota:
3spd transmission instead of 2 on the JD
Folding ROPS
Split brakes for steering
Removable loader (removes in 1 minute allegedly, not that I ever took it off)
SSQA (optional on Kubota don't remember if it was even an option on the JD at the time)
Cast iron rear end instead of aluminum
I want to say the Kubota weighed a bit more, but can't be sure
Slightly cheaper if I recall, or at least equalish price

I looked at orange, green & Korean upgrading to my new premium cabbed machine. I went orange again because of HST+ combined with cost per HP & lbs combined with machine capacity.

Kubota has the 2 speed HST+ (a huge factor to me)
3000 series JD was the same physical size as my L3200, the Lxx60s were 15-20% bigger
The small JDs had more HP options up to 47hp if I recall while the smallest 35hp L3560 was underpowered for its size & weight. All the rest of the Lxx60s are the same frame & a hair bigger than the L3560.
JD was $7k more for a noticeably smaller machine in the high 32hp or low 40hp range
JD had a smoother HST
JD had a nice knob & several buttons to control things where Kubota has 1 freaking switch to control a bazillion different things

I'm ignoring the forward/reverse treadle vs separate pedals thing. I liked the treadle on my first machine. I could possibly see the advantage on my new machine. But really it's mostly marketing BS or personal preference. I could have adapted to peddles just fine I think.

Shifting every 2 or 3 speed transmission on a HST sucks. They aren't smooth & often need to be coaxed into gear. Didn't matter the size or premium/economy or manufacturer. They are durable I guess but annoying to shift. HST+ means you rarely shift out of medium range, taking a lot of the sting out of that clunky shift.

 

[kubotacres]

I looked at Deere & Kubota when I got my L3200 a few years ago & went Kubota. The economy machines were pretty similar but Kubota won out. I think they are still the same machines only with tier 4 emissions now.

My reasons for going Kubota:
3spd transmission instead of 2 on the JD
Folding ROPS
Split brakes for steering
Removable loader (removes in 1 minute allegedly, not that I ever took it off)
SSQA (optional on Kubota don't remember if it was even an option on the JD at the time)
Cast iron rear end instead of aluminum
I want to say the Kubota weighed a bit more, but can't be sure
Slightly cheaper if I recall, or at least equalish price

I looked at orange, green & Korean upgrading to my new premium cabbed machine. I went orange again because of HST+ combined with cost per HP & lbs combined with machine capacity.

Kubota has the 2 speed HST+ (a huge factor to me)
3000 series JD was the same physical size as my L3200, the Lxx60s were 15-20% bigger
The small JDs had more HP options up to 47hp if I recall while the smallest 35hp L3560 was underpowered for its size & weight. All the rest of the Lxx60s are the same frame & a hair bigger than the L3560.
JD was $7k more for a noticeably smaller machine in the high 32hp or low 40hp range
JD had a smoother HST
JD had a nice knob & several buttons to control things where Kubota has 1 freaking switch to control a bazillion different things

I'm ignoring the forward/reverse treadle vs separate pedals thing. I liked the treadle on my first machine. I could possibly see the advantage on my new machine. But really it's mostly marketing BS or personal preference. I could have adapted to peddles just fine I think.

Shifting every 2 or 3 speed transmission on a HST sucks. They aren't smooth & often need to be coaxed into gear. Didn't matter the size or premium/economy or manufacturer. They are durable I guess but annoying to shift. HST+ means you rarely shift out of medium range, taking a lot of the sting out of that clunky shift.

I've seen you mention several times in varies posts that the l3560 is underpowered and the reason you went to a l4060. The HP/ratio is .0078 for l4060 compared to .0072 for the l3560. A difference I agree, but not enough difference to say that one is underpowered opposed to the other.

The ratio was based on a cabbed tractor,PTO HP, and without loader weight( because both are available with the optional la805). Take a l3560 with the la555 and the HP/ratio is dang near close.

Take the l5460 for example. It's at a .010. That's a huge difference even with the added weight.

The older l3240 is at a .066 and this is without a cab.

Lots of variables. I'm bored cooped up inside because of all the rain.

 

[Fallon]

I won't dispute your facts. But test driving a L3560hstc it could barely get to top speed on flat ground. The L4060 could, but struggles a bit on hills.

I'm sure my 6,500' of elevation colors my perceptions a bit as it theoretically robs around 5-7hp or something. A turbo would have helped, but wasn't an option unless I went Korean or up several price & HP points.

I do find it odd the L3560 is the only HP option for that frame size. The next & only frame size up goes from 40hp to 60hp with 4 different engine/hp options. Only difference is the engine, avaliable loader, 3pt lift links & tires. JD has about 3-4 HP/engine options per frame size & frame sizes just smaller or bigger than both the grand L frame sizes.

 

[kubotacres]

I won't dispute your facts. But test driving a L3560hstc it could barely get to top speed on flat ground. The L4060 could, but struggles a bit on hills.

I'm sure my 6,500' of elevation colors my perceptions a bit as it theoretically robs around 5-7hp or something. A turbo would have helped, but wasn't an option unless I went Korean or up several price & HP points.

I do find it odd the L3560 is the only HP option for that frame size. The next & only frame size up goes from 40hp to 60hp with 4 different engine/hp options. Only difference is the engine, avaliable loader, 3pt lift links & tires. JD has about 3-4 HP/engine options per frame size & frame sizes just smaller or bigger than both the grand L frame sizes.

When I was deciding between the 35 and 40 my issue was with the larger frame/tires. I could've got a really good deal on a 1 year faded dealer lot sitting l4060. But the added size wouldn't allow me in some places I need to drive. Regardless in my book if it's Kubota it's good with me.