Hourly vs Salary?

/ Hourly vs Salary? #101  
On the cons it would be healthcare... a lot of my early retired friends are paying $10,000 or more for Health Insurance and the California market is very high... so this is a consideration.

Becoming part of a large chain of Hospitals means employee premium contribution would actually be less than what we had been paying.

Due of my seniority, a portion of my health insurance (about 40%) is paid for by the the hosp. That has been fine since I retired but I was just notified that as of Jan. health ins. premiums went up. The employers contribution toward insurance increased so we didn't have to absorb the full hit but my portion increased 29% that I didn't count on.

Don't count on ins. premiums being less by becoming part of a larger chain. That's what we thought too but our premiums just skyrocketed. I can't understand why a multi billion dollar company couldn't negotiate for a better ins. plan. I'll be switching ins. once I turn 65.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#102  
A single employee Health Insurance is currently $100 every two weeks with drug limitations and no visions... so $2600 annually.

The new company is $23 for a single employee with better drug and vision... so $598 annually.

The new company rates markedly increase for family coverage where a family of 5 would pay more with the new company than the old company.

But, for a single employee for 2017 the new company Health Insurance comes with a huge savings... of course the insurance is tied to the Hospital and our old policy was Blue Cross Anthem.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #103  
Any regrets for those opting early retirement... other than waiting too long?

A lot of my friends are retired... most are career military or public safety. As one told me, he was basically working for a couple of bucks an hour as an Oakland Police Officer as his pension with medical was 90% of his pay... so at 53 he retired with 30 years in... spends most of his time being there for his grandkids as he missed a lot when his two were young...

I can see where those with a nice pension might have an easier choice.

This week has been a wake up call... tonight two of my co-workers were in tears... they have more time in than I do and their positions are being eliminated as all accounts payable and receivable will no longer be onsite... both have been offered positions in admitting and medical records and are willing to give it a try but it is very much like starting over.

Some here have said it should be looked at as starting a new job... and that is very true.

I retired at 61.5 and have no regrets at all. I realized I was selling my days to the company for less than they were worth to me. Especially when I thought about not knowing how many days I had left. I am coming up on the 10 year anniversary of that in a few months and it has been a great ride. Plus, it looks like the ride will continue, since my health is good.

Now, I have a company pension, DW kept working, and the finances were easy.

Your situation is different because of the lack of a pension. OTOH your rentals are a great asset.

At 57 and no company retirement, frozen over 10 years ago, not sure I would be out looking to hire on.

Thankfully, I have kept a small portfolio of rentals which are now all paid for... so it is not a question of putting food on the table... my needs are really very modest.


With your background of building and facilities management/maintenance, and your personal history of successfully owning and operating rental property, you should be planning for a new employer -- yourself.

Look on this as the opportunity of a lifetime. I call myself retired now, just because people understand that, but at the time I was doing it I thought of it differently. I made the decision that I was going to "declare myself independently wealthy." Now that I have had some time to think it over, what I was really doing was becoming comfortably self-employed.

We did section 1031 exchanges to sell our rentals in the SF Bay area and buy new ones in our retirement location. You can do the same thing. Do not be afraid of mortgages in "retirement," as long as they are for money-making assets they are a sound and responsible financial tool. Your tenants will end up paying them for you. Buy multi family rentals, maintain and manage them yourself, and you will be in great shape.

It is going to be easier to get loans on new properties if you are employed in a traditional job, so don't leave until you have your new self-employment/independent situation set up. But, one of the beauties of real estate mortgages is that they can not be called if your situation changes, as long as you keep the payments up.

If you want to discuss some details off line, send me a PM. With 20/20 hindsight, my only real regret is that I did not buy more rental units.

I could put up with a lot of BS at work if I had a solid plan for a very comfortable escape in a year or so...
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #104  
Exactly, When another company wanted to buy my company. I sold. I'm 58, and wanted to go live the good life. Glad to be out of the rat race.
You never know when your time will come. My mom died at 68, my dad at 73

So true......my mom died at 56.....dad at 62.....6 months after retirement. If you can afford it.....get out as soon as possible. Drive your tractor....do volunteer work......go hunting/fishing......play with the dogs.......take the backroads......enjoy life!
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #105  
I've been salary, and hourly, union & non union. The best advice I have is to relax. The changes are going to happen, and you could drive yourself nuts with worry. This stuff will settle out soon. Your friend who is going to be your supervisor is hopefully going to help you straighten this out. I'd talk to him, one on one first.

Some things I'd keep in mind:

Continue to do your job as you have been, until told otherwise. This will help the transition, and should be appreciated.

At 58, getting a new job might be hard. You do have a impressive resume.

Revel in it. Enjoy your job. You do great work, and it must be obvious to others.

Again, relax. You can't control everything.

Being a hourly guy was better for me. Paid much better than my time as a salary engineer. Maybe a union job might be better?
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #106  
You guys are lucky. Most if not all have had some form of Health insurance that paid, or partially paid for by the company you worked for. I have always had to pay my health insurance, so Health care cost wasn't a issue for me when I considered selling ,and retiring.
I only hope is that things will get better now. I don't think I could take much more hope and change.
What ever path you chose to take, I wish you the best.. I have no regrets !
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#107  
I paid my own Health Insurance for 12 years when I was self employed... one of the reasons I accepted the Hospital position with HCA is all the big company benefits... especially looking from the outside in... of course one by one most went away.

In hindsight my self employment track would have proved far more lucrative... rentals equal a job if your are hands on.

No regrets though going corporate... it sure did make my folks happy... I think it is one of the top things I did that really pleased Dad... he had a very hard time understanding putting in the effort to earn my degree and then spend 10 years managing rentals and rehabbing units.

Funny as how many of the Doctors I work with encourage their kids to go into Real Estate and several have set the kids up in Real Estate managing family holdings.

A little off topic... if a person came to me and asked about working in a hospital I would say become a Registered Nurse... the pay is excellent in the Bay Area.

I know two Doctors that now work as Surgical Nurses... they are very happy and one said when it was all said and done being a nurse allows him to have a life... no responsibilities to run an office, staffing, insurance claims, government mandates... etc.

Of course there is the Silicon Valley and Bio Tech jobs in the Bay Area too... my God Sister went to work for Apple as a High School Intern in 1979 and just how company stock paid for her home and was worth many times her clerical wages.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#108  
I retired at 61.5 and have no regrets at all. I realized I was selling my days to the company for less than they were worth to me. Especially when I thought about not knowing how many days I had left. I am coming up on the 10 year anniversary of that in a few months and it has been a great ride. Plus, it looks like the ride will continue, since my health is good.

Now, I have a company pension, DW kept working, and the finances were easy.

Your situation is different because of the lack of a pension. OTOH your rentals are a great asset.

At 57 and no company retirement, frozen over 10 years ago, not sure I would be out looking to hire on.

Thankfully, I have kept a small portfolio of rentals which are now all paid for... so it is not a question of putting food on the table... my needs are really very modest.


With your background of building and facilities management/maintenance, and your personal history of successfully owning and operating rental property, you should be planning for a new employer -- yourself.

Look on this as the opportunity of a lifetime. I call myself retired now, just because people understand that, but at the time I was doing it I thought of it differently. I made the decision that I was going to "declare myself independently wealthy." Now that I have had some time to think it over, what I was really doing was becoming comfortably self-employed.

We did section 1031 exchanges to sell our rentals in the SF Bay area and buy new ones in our retirement location. You can do the same thing. Do not be afraid of mortgages in "retirement," as long as they are for money-making assets they are a sound and responsible financial tool. Your tenants will end up paying them for you. Buy multi family rentals, maintain and manage them yourself, and you will be in great shape.

It is going to be easier to get loans on new properties if you are employed in a traditional job, so don't leave until you have your new self-employment/independent situation set up. But, one of the beauties of real estate mortgages is that they can not be called if your situation changes, as long as you keep the payments up.

If you want to discuss some details off line, send me a PM. With 20/20 hindsight, my only real regret is that I did not buy more rental units.

I could put up with a lot of BS at work if I had a solid plan for a very comfortable escape in a year or so...

I've always considered you in the role of a mentor who has walked a similar path...

I did 1031 some rentals a few years ago into a closely held LLC that has worked out well... ownership without any day to day responsibilities... only monthly reports.

You are 100% correct when it comes to mortgages and employment and this is why I was so desperately looking for that forever place a few years back... low rates, depressed market, purchase for much less than the cost to build plus locking in Prop 13 taxes is a bonus in a down market... came close as 59 days in backup position with a better offer... it sure would have been life changing in every way had I closed the deal...

The avenue to a mortgage is probably the number one reason I've stayed on the job just in case lightning strikes twice.

Back in the day when I was self employed mortgage money was not an option... had to get creative... put down 25% and seller financing with mostly distressed property... all have been a win/win... especially for my sellers that got above market interest in retirement...
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #109  
A single employee Health Insurance is currently $100 every two weeks with drug limitations and no visions... so $2600 annually.

The new company is $23 for a single employee with better drug and vision... so $598 annually.

The new company rates markedly increase for family coverage where a family of 5 would pay more with the new company than the old company.

But, for a single employee for 2017 the new company Health Insurance comes with a huge savings... of course the insurance is tied to the Hospital and our old policy was Blue Cross Anthem.

Those prices are not bad but those prices are for if you continue to stay employed.
If you are considering retiring, check with your HR dept. on retired employee benefits to see if they cover any portion of insurance or if you have to pay the full shot. If you have to pay the full shot it will be as you noted some of your retired friends are paying. I was grandfathered in so I don't have to pay the full shot. My former employer pays about 46% and I pay the remaining 54% of the monthly premium. Dental and eyeglass would be extra if I want them.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#110  
Health Insurance in from 50 up to age 65 can be more than some pay on a mortgage.

When Mom was attacked by a dog at age 62 she was uninsurable for 3 years until she became Medicare Eligible... lucky she was in good health and no other injuries but once Cobra ran out she was on her own... I guess this would be illegal today?

Medicare has made retirement viable for many... as the supplemental is a much smaller bite for better coverage.

I'm pretty clueless as to what my actual premium would be going forward... the acquisition will be complete Feb 1, 2017.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #112  
I guess my son will find out how all this hospital stuff works. He has about a year away from getting his masters in hospital administration .
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #113  
I've always considered you in the role of a mentor who has walked a similar path...

I feel honored. I have seen the similarity in our paths.

* * * * * * * *

This year medicare is: $134 per month, plus $54 to $295 per month depending on income. Plus another $13 to $76 for part D. If your income is low enough you do not have to pay any of the additional amounts. I suspect the low income part will not apply to you.

It comes directly out of your SS.

Now, I am not complaining, because we have been greatly blessed, but this year my SS increased by about $5 because inflation was very low. But my medicare payment increased by about $120. I would hate to see how much medicare would have gone up if inflation had been high.

The medicare payment increases every year.
 
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/ Hourly vs Salary? #115  
...

At 58, getting a new job might be hard. You do have a impressive resume.

....

He won't have a hard time finding a new job. In fact, he'll be offered jobs faster than he thought possible. But it probably won't be at the pay scale he's at now. But its still a good feeling to know you're marketable at that age. :thumbsup:

I had made exactly one resume in my life right out of tech school 30 years ago. I used a resume service. I had a whopping 10 resumes printed up on very expensive paper (probably $1.00 a sheet! :laughing:), and I sent exactly two (2) of those out. And one of them hired me and I've been there 30 years.

Until a couple of years ago, I'd never made another resume. Until corporate started their own I.T. department and put all our sister companies I.T. departments under their control. The first thing the new corp VP of I.T. did was ask for our resumes. He was shocked that we didn't have any. Non of us did. We weren't looking for other jobs. Anyhow, I made up a resume, and it was kinda hard. I had to think back, go through my personnel file in HR to get my past duties, promotions, dates, etc....

Well, of course, a couple years later, two different I.T. directors past this guy, a couple job title changes for me, and I was glad I had that current resume now!!! :rolleyes:

I sent it out to several job postings at other companies and got hits on all of them. Its a great feeling to know you are still marketable and someone wants you. I took a different position within our company and got out of I.T., but I made some connections on those job interviews and know I won't starve to death if I ever have to seek other employment. Great feeling. :thumbsup:
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#116  
That's one of the very first things corporate ended.... relationships with vendors. Our vendors were like family. Now they are persona non grata. :mad:

I've already have that feeling... I have the personal phone numbers for the guys that own key companies we work with... never have abused but I know if I have a real problem they will come through for me.

It's taken years... to cultivate in an industry where turnover is common... the corp has already said if we can save a penny we will switch... and it is not like my people are not very competitive especially when I work with them on a time and material basis.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#117  
He won't have a hard time finding a new job. In fact, he'll be offered jobs faster than he thought possible. But it probably won't be at the pay scale he's at now. But its still a good feeling to know you're marketable at that age. :thumbsup:

I had made exactly one resume in my life right out of tech school 30 years ago. I used a resume service. I had a whopping 10 resumes printed up on very expensive paper (probably $1.00 a sheet! :laughing:), and I sent exactly two (2) of those out. And one of them hired me and I've been there 30 years.

Until a couple of years ago, I'd never made another resume. Until corporate started their own I.T. department and put all our sister companies I.T. departments under their control. The first thing the new corp VP of I.T. did was ask for our resumes. He was shocked that we didn't have any. Non of us did. We weren't looking for other jobs. Anyhow, I made up a resume, and it was kinda hard. I had to think back, go through my personnel file in HR to get my past duties, promotions, dates, etc....

Well, of course, a couple years later, two different I.T. directors past this guy, a couple job title changes for me, and I was glad I had that current resume now!!! :rolleyes:

I sent it out to several job postings at other companies and got hits on all of them. Its a great feeling to know you are still marketable and someone wants you. I took a different position within our company and got out of I.T., but I made some connections on those job interviews and know I won't starve to death if I ever have to seek other employment. Great feeling. :thumbsup:

I have a resume somewhere... I think it is on my Apple //e.

But in all truth, every job I've held is a job where I've been asked to come onboard... batting zero when I was going on interviews with the State and Federal government openings years ago.

Spent some time visiting one of my old friends... he had a long career with Pacific Telephone and was there when ATT took over and reorganized... he said within 6 months ATT had all but destroyed the company by letting go all the senior managers and offered buyouts to lineman with seniority... eventually they had to hire many back because the institutional knowledge base was gone...

His advice is to enjoy the ride... follow the new rules and let the new corp culture take it's course....

Have I mentioned that I have some really wise retired friends that look at things from the experience of having seen it all before?

Lee said he is Br'er Rabbit and is at his best in the Brier Patch.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #118  
No regrets so far. I retired at age 63 last April after 38 years at 2 hospitals (7 yrs. at 1st & 31 yrs. at 2nd). Parents died early (52 & 68). Grandparents didn't make it past 70 either so I figured out what I needed to get by financially and found that by supplementing my S.S. with some interest money from my 401K and IRA's I'd have enough to get by. Here are just a few (not all) of my pros and cons off the top of my head. Not necessarily in order.

Pro's
1) No longer have to set and alarm, report or answer to anyone but myself.
2) No job stress.
3) Fewer miles on vehicles and less gas purchased.
4) Cheaper car insurance due to fewer miles driven.
5) More time to travel, play with classic cars, go to more car shows.
6) More time to catch up on honey-do list. That will take years to do and never be complete.
7) I enjoy working on classic cars (been doing that since I was 13) so I have more time to make some side money tinkering with other peoples cars when I want to.
8) Now able to pick up some winter plowing jobs that I couldn't do before due to work schedule.
9) Nice to do what I want when I want.
10) More family time.

Cons
1) Miss the people from work. I've stopped back a few times for coffee and to say hello.
2) Miss the extra money a regular paycheck brought in.
3) Miss the cheaper health insurance rate I paid while employed.

If I recall, you have some income from rental properties so if you have enough income to cover monthly expenses and you're still young enough to make some side job money I'd go for it.

1 -6 check
7 substitute woodworking and gardening check
8 no snow around here
9 check
10 check

Do miss a couple of folks I worked with, don't miss the other stuff.
Most of us can always use a few more bucks, but we are comfortable with what we have.
Health insurance is a lot more but will drop when Medicare kicks in two years from now.

No regrets at all for retiring early, just make sure that you will have enough income or savings to live on. I am lucky to have a pension in this era of 401k retirement plans.
 
/ Hourly vs Salary?
  • Thread Starter
#119  
Having a pension/medical sure simplifies things when it comes to planning.

Annually I have asked when the 401k match would be restored and now it is although it would be about $2500 if I maxed out maxed out... hardly a deal maker.

Some of the medical companies I do business with have a dollar for dollar match which is amazing and I was hoping it would be much better than it is.

Do you negotiate going in or later once you are a known quantity to the new owners?
 
/ Hourly vs Salary? #120  
...Do you negotiate going in or later once you are a known quantity to the new owners?

You will not be in a strong position to negotiate after the transition.

The real problem is that you are not really in a strong position to negotiate now either. When one company buys another one, there is wholesale turmoil, and it is very hard to get the attention of anyone senior enough to really make a decision. My sense of it is that a hospital is going to consider facilities as a necessary evil and not in their mainstream business, even though it is vital to their business. Negotiate too much and you will be labeled a troublemaker, and a highly paid one at that, by the new management.

All that being said, the best negotiating tool you can have is a current resume. They are going to be fitting you into an existing job description. Your value to the new management comes in two areas. First you have both the experience and the expertise they need to fill that job description. Second, you have been doing much, much more than that job description entails and that has been very beneficial in controlling costs for the old management.

Get someone with experience and expertise to help you write a resume. You will have to pay someone with real expertise, to get the best help, but don't cheap out on this. It is a specialized skill, and most people will sell themselves short. You will be dealing with someone who has read thousands of resumes, and even though you might read a book on this, you need someone who has written hundreds of resumes for clients. Contact a firm that specializes in outplacement and pay them for a resume. Don't hesitate on this.

Plus, a really good, professional resume will put them on notice that you have other options without you ever having to say a word about it. Threatening to leave does not go over well -- making yourself as attractive as possible increases your value to them and others.

* * * * * * *

About 10 years before I stopped working for a company, there was a shakeup at the company and my boss was fired. No one had the stones to fire me, although I felt that I was on shaky ground, and no one really wanted me either.

I made the conscious decision that instead of putting in extra hours at work, I would develop a money making sideline and put more time/effort/money into the rental real estate business. This had two effects:

(1) My income increased, and in a way that was not dependent on the company. This gave me more personal security, and the confidence to stand up for what was right at the company instead of what management wanted on a short term basis. I was careful to express things in a positive way, and not just disagree with poor decisions.

(2) In turn, this increased my value to the company, and my position became more secure. Pay increased also, but I quickly saw that working for myself, I got 100% of the benefit of my efforts, while working for someone else I got very much less.

So, even though I was putting less time in at work, my job became more secure, and my total earnings became much better. Between salary and side income I was doing better than managers two levels above me. Another benefit is that when I stopped working for the company the side income came with me.

Fast forward to the present and today I sign paychecks on the front instead of the back. I have relationships with vendors for the same reasons you did at your work. I get better deals and better support. It costs me less, it is faster, and if something breaks a week out of warranty, they come & fix it just to keep my business. I make policy instead of having to follow it.

* * * * * * * *

In addition to TBN, I spend some time on personal finance websites. mostly aimed at retirement planning.

One of the big paradoxes I see there is that they tilt heavily toward investing in equities (stocks & mutual funds) and bonds. With some amount of attention/recommendation to real estate and then primarily as publicly traded REITs. (Real Estate Investment Trusts), and lots of bias against rental real estate, because owning it is like having a job.

OTOH, very frequent advice is that one way to stretch your retirement assets is to either work longer, or take a part-time job.

Not very many supposedly smart people make the connection that they are right, owning rentals is like having a part-time job, and that this part-time job is exactly what they tell you to do in the next breath after they tell you it is a big disadvantage of rentals.

I suspect the real reason is that financial advisors make commissions when people buy mutual funds, and when people buy bonds, but they don't make anything when people buy rentals.
 
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