Applying for jobs and scheduling interviews????

[LD1]

This is just my experience from working for the government for around 20 years. In all those years I NEVER had an applicant that was currently working in a similar position elsewhere that applied for a position in our department. I think an unemployed applicant is a lot less concerned regarding hours, salary & benefits. They are just a lot more concerned about a job and meeting their on-going financial obligations. You may have to accept the fact that a "better" job in your area of expertise simply does not exist in your immediate area. Likewise - the conditions you are looking for may only become a reality after you have obtained seniority in any new job.

A person could look a lifetime and never find the "perfect" job. I feel you must tread lightly in your questioning - otherwise you will come off appearing as not really committed to any company, job or position. You do not want to appear as an individual who will be continually applying for or looking for the "better" position. At least in the area of government I was in - we were looking for a qualified person who would fit in with the team, learn the specifics of the position & become a long term employee. Fortunately, in the department where I worked there was the opportunity for a new employee to advance in both salary & position.

Thats entirely possible that there just isnt another job out there. And thats fine. Again, I like where I am at, but its one of those things that if I were to ask myself what I would prefer to be different about my job......there are some things I can come up with. As I listed them in my first post. Maybe nothing will ever come up.... But there are several great companies in this area, that I have "heard" are excellent to work for in terms of pay and benefits and schedule. Ive got nothing to lose by shopping around so to speak.

What I still dont understand is why some companies choose to put all the info out there. Starting pay, benefits, shift, hours, etc etc. And others choose to put NOTHING at all.

To me, its like buying or selling a used tractor. Look at an ad with a picture of a nice tractor that looks promising, yet dont list the hours, price, year, model, HST or gear, or any other relative details. VS looking at an ad that has all the information. And ad that has all the info, and is still something that interest me, its simply a matter of calling and setting a time to look it over. The ad lacking all the detail......when I call, I aint calling to come look just yet. I need some questions answered first.

 

[NorTracNY]

Interesting reading... Lots of very good points coming from different view points.

I have seen what many here have discussed. Some companies are not reachable, job discriptions are always weak, when you get a call from a HR person they won't be able to answer many questions, 3 interview minimums, etc... I had a friend go to a company for a scheduled interview. He walked into the lobby which just had a few chairs, a phone, and a locked door into the place. He called the number he was given and just got voice mail. After 10 minutes and not being able to see or talk to anyone he left.

I have interviewed many people for positions. I think a phone interview would have saved time with over half of them. I've learned that resumes and the people don't always match once you start asking questions.

 

[oosik]

Those "weak" job descriptions make me wonder/nervous - what are they trying to hide. A friend interviewed for a job - only to find out that it required relocation to a foreign country. This fact was not mentioned in the job advertisment. Your current job may require that you walk around in poo up to your ankles - most wouldn't want to have a new job that required working in "it" up to your chin - regardless of the benefits.

 

[LD1]

I think a phone interview would have saved time with over half of them.

Agreed 100%. And alot of places still do a phone interview. And after a few minutes, I have my mind made up if it is something I would be willing to go in for a face-to-face interview for. And if they agree, it gets scheduled.

I just dont know a more politically correct or polite way to put it. But I really dont want to waste my time going to an interview if the pay, schedule, hours, etc arent up to my expectations. And Have no idea why a company would want to waste their time interviewing me if I would be unwilling to accept a job with them based on those reasons. 90% of the calls I get......they are thanking me for asking the questions and NOT wasting their time. As they know what they want in a candidate and know what they are able to offer........and I know what I am looking for in a company in terms of compensation, shift/schedule, benefits, etc. We dont need to waste each others time with a formal interview to determine if a face-to-face is either going to be mutually beneficial, or a waste of time.

I've learned that resumes and the people don't always match once you start asking questions.

While I have never interviewed or hired anyone....I know just what you mean. There have been several times over the course of my work history that someone new gets hired......and every one in the department is wondering.....what the h3ll was management thinking? Assuming they must have one heck of a resume and stellar interview skills. But writing resumes and having interviews are not skills that pertain to the job we do day to day.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I think a lot of companies forget that an interview is a 2 way thing. It's not just if you fit for them, they have to fit for you.


I had an experience a few years back similar to yours about the company wanting everything for nothing: I applied for a Licensed Carpenter position with a local company. They stated licensed which here (unfortunately) isn't mandatory for carpenters, as well as crew leader, apprentice mentor, deal with clients & other trades on site etc. Sounded like a pretty decent position to me. They called and asked if I'd like to come in to talk and I did exactly the same as you did -- I asked them some questions that they hadn't listed in the ad, particularly pay & hours. They'd already mentioned in the conversation company van, big tools provided, company shirts etc. but not pay or hours. They wanted me to start every day a their shop (35 min away), travel time to the site was on the clock, work all day ending at 5 and then drive back to the shop OFF the clock. Not a chance. If I had to start/stop at their shop, I was paid from/to there. And they were offering a glorious $16/hr for this position and somehow they thought that was fair. To put that in perspective, a broom pusher in the union was making about $20 at the time and I was making $16 fresh out of college 15 yrs earlier. I told them to double it and we'd talk and that $16 was insulting for what they were asking for. They called me a year later offering $18 an trying to get me to come in for an interview. They seemed surprised when I told them the exact same thing that I'd told them a year earlier: double it and we could talk.

I think very few companies are truly interested in finding the best candidate for a position and are willing to pay for it with the understand that even someone costing more will usually be a better bargain in the end. They are usually interested in just the numbers on the pay cheque

 

[dickfoster]

I don't do this anymore and I'm glad I don't. However I figured out early on that no matter what you do, make dayum sure that you like what you're doing, otherwise your job is just that, a job and a chore. It's hard to get up in the morning and do something you don't like doing just for the money. I also figured out early on that you're never likely to get anywhere working for someone else, especially for a larger company, no matter how much they are paying you. Therefore, I set out to work for small startup companies where I could get a piece of the pie should the startup succeed. Since 1 out of 10 succeed, I consider myself lucky having hit on the 8th startup.
Now I gotta tell ya the wages are typically lower, the hours are long, the tasks varied and everything is your job. The upside is that you're never bored and you're motivated because you have to love your work to do it. The flip side is that it's also heartbreaking when one goes down the tubes after all the hours and effort you've put into it. However you're more likely to end up much further ahead, if not you're sure to get a lot more out of it and not hate your job. Hating your job is just wasting your life since you spent most of your waking hours at it. If you like what you're doing, you'll also be good at it so that also tends to assure your eventual success.
Now I'm a full time professional goof off and clocks and calendars don't mean squat anymore.

 

[MossRoad]

Are you guys really that naive????

The main reason they don't post how much the job pays is because they don't want people already working there who make less than that or people who have been there a bazillion years and only make that amount now getting ticked off.

 

[LD1]

Are you guys really that naive????

The main reason they don't post how much the job pays is because they don't want people already working there who make less than that or people who have been there a bazillion years and only make that amount now getting ticked off.

I dont have a problem with that. But not get upset or act like I am doing something wrong when I want to inquire about wages and benefits before wasting time on an in-person interview.

 

[rox]

Let me ask a few clarifying questions. Do you always fill out applications on line?
As part of the application process typically are you able to attach a file to the application, a file such as your resume?

Or are you sending out your resume in response to a job posting you saw. Forgive me it has been over 2 decades since I have applied for a job and i honestly don't know what the process is now. If you can reply back with an answer I believe I have some concrete suggestions for you depending on your response.

Additionally, the positions you are applying for, are these generally unionized positions?

 

[LD1]

Let me ask a few clarifying questions. Do you always fill out applications on line?
As part of the application process typically are you able to attach a file to the application, a file such as your resume?

Or are you sending out your resume in response to a job posting you saw. Forgive me it has been over 2 decades since I have applied for a job and i honestly don't know what the process is now. If you can reply back with an answer I believe I have some concrete suggestions for you depending on your response.

Additionally, the positions you are applying for, are these generally unionized positions?

They are all different. There are many job posting "boards". indeed.com, monster, careerbuilder, etc

Most job postings have a little button to click that says "apply"

From there, 99% of the time, it takes you to a place to upload a resume. But from there on is where it can differ. Some places prompt you to answer a few qualification questions, like do you have at least xx years experience, at least a x-year degree, legally able to work in the USA, etc.

Some forward you onto a website where they ask more detailed questions beyond yes or no. Like why you are seeking a job, what is your salary requirement, what shifts are you available to work, etc.

Then some places just use the above listed websites for advertisement only, and not for the application process. And give you a link to a company website to fill out a application and upload resume.

Like I said, they are all different. But I'd say 99% of them have a way to upload a resume to them.....which I do. And 99% of them have no way to contact anyone to ask further questions, no contacts listed, etc.

 

[TheMan419]

Interestingly I am in kind of the opposite position at this point. I am trying to hire someone to be my "administrative assistant" (what we used to call secretary, but that is now apparently sexist).

I am getting a TON of resumes where there are one of two things (or both) that turn me off:

1. No experience in the specific field I am in. Yes that field is specified in the job posting.
2. Person moves from job to job every year or less.

In my field the needs for an administrative assistant are pretty specific. Also even if you have a ton of prior experience in the industry it will take you 6 months or a year to learn how our office does things and how I do things to become more efficient at being my assistant.

The last assistant I had worked for me for 9.5 years.

So I end up rejecting a TON of applicants because they have worked 7 different jobs in the last 6 years and are all unrelated to my industry and are not secretarial related.

Finally the other one that I see a bit of is someone applying for this job while being in school for a field completely unrelated to the one I am hiring for. Like I don't realize the minute you get your degree you are going on to that "better" job.

All in all OP, no offense, but if you called with that attitude your resume would end up in the circular file.

 

[LD1]

May I ask what attitude that is?

Simpling wanting to get some pretty important information related to the job prior to taking a day off, hiring a babysitter, and making the drive to show up for an interview....all to get the info than can be revealed in 5min on the phone. Info that was left out of the help wanted ad.

Why is it so wrong to want to know the work schedule, shift, retirement, benefits, pay, etc before wasting time on an interview?

A company is clearly interested in me based on my resume. Which has my education, experience, and work history. Same things I am gonna say in my interview. So an interview is merely a formality to get to know me personally and if I am a good fit for the company. But jumping to that step I feel is putting the cart before the horse, if the position is not a fit for me.

If they would simply put that info regarding shift, benefits, pay, etc on their ad....I could have already made that decision and then choose to apply or not. By not disclosing that info, I have to apply just to get those answers....which I am sorry, I need those answers before I re-arrange my schedule to be able to ask you in person. If you can't answer them over the phone, I'm I'm no lo get interested

 

[Citydude]

I'm in agreement with LD1. When our HR department advertised an employment opportunity for my department, I wanted information included that potential employees would need to know to make a decision on to apply or not apply. With that, the majority of the respondents had the qualifications, knew the pay scale, benefit package and shift requirements.

Being vague on an employment posting would create the very thing LD is experiencing. Phone calls that are time consuming for the company and potential loss of a good candidate being frustrated by those phone calls.

 

[ultrarunner]

In medical salary is right at the top of the posting... especially for RN and Techs...

People do work their way up the Corp Ladder... my first Hospital CEO started as a RN decades prior.

The current Regional Director started as a transcriptionist in High School as a part time job... she is now over all the Hospital Administrators... it is interesting to work with someone as peers and then time goes by and they are your boss's boss...

In some ways medical is a close community... maybe different that other fields...

The pay is really just about all the same... the difference is in the benefits offered... like entire family covered on Health Insurance or lifetime medical after 20 years service, etc...

We still lose nurses and it is not on pay... it's all about the benefit package.

 

[LD1]

I'm in agreement with LD1. When our HR department advertised an employment opportunity for my department, I wanted information included that potential employees would need to know to make a decision on to apply or not apply. With that, the majority of the respondents had the qualifications, knew the pay scale, benefit package and shift requirements.

Being vague on an employment posting would create the very thing LD is experiencing. Phone calls that are time consuming for the company and potential loss of a good candidate being frustrated by those phone calls.

Exactly.

Some postings have it all. The list the shift, hours, benefits, pension or not, 401k match amount, a pay range that usually states DOE, etc.

The postings that are vague.....only list what the company is looking for in a candidate, with no regard to what a candidate may be looking for in a company.

A company gives a list of qualifications and requirements that I must meet to be considered. Do they ever think that maybe I have a list of qualifications and requirements that must be met for me to still be interested?

Does a company waste time interviewing people that don't meet the requirements they publish? What's so taboo about me not wanting to waste my time either if the company doesn't meet mine?

Sometimes I just wanna say " I'm sorry, I didn't apply for your opening because I am desperate to come work for you. I only applied because you left out all the information that is important to me, so my application was in hopes I'd get to talk to someone and ask some relevant queations and get some answers. Then and only then, if your company meets mine and my families requirements, would I be interested in a face to face."

 

[300UGUY]

In medical salary is right at the top of the posting... especially for RN and Techs...

People do work their way up the Corp Ladder... my first Hospital CEO started as a RN decades prior.

The current Regional Director started as a transcriptionist in High School as a part time job... she is now over all the Hospital Administrators... it is interesting to work with someone as peers and then time goes by and they are your boss's boss...

In some ways medical is a close community... maybe different that other fields...

The pay is really just about all the same... the difference is in the benefits offered... like entire family covered on Health Insurance or lifetime medical after 20 years service, etc...

We still lose nurses and it is not on pay... it's all about the benefit package.

Pretty unusual these days. Most companies are now run by MBA's. In the auto industry, even 1st level supervisors are required to have a degree. Often, engineers, if they are on the promotional track, will be required to have been a production supervisor, maintenance supervisor, and a matierals coordinator - So even the 1st step supervisors are engineers. Hourly folks without degrees aren't even considered for salary jobs. The days of going from the production floor to the executive suite are long gone.

 

[drdoolittle]

Not necessarily. I know a couple of national companies that have started removing the degree requirement for salary/management because the "degreed" folks don't have the experience or real knowledge that the folks from the floor have. I'm also seeing more and more job posting where the degree is only a preference, not required because of similar issues as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

My first job after college was engineering in a Tool and Die firm... I was their first grad and I was really impressed by some of the senior talent... some learned in Germany and Switzerland and came up through the ranks.

The RN that became CEO was a tough old gal if she wanted to be... no one, but no one could dress down a Doctor like she could.. and they took it and she could swear like a sailor... no one was going to come into her "House" and not follow the rules!

The gal that is regional administrator earned her Bachelor and MBA while we worked together... she also has just about every specialized credential and certification for her field... she went back to school at age 39 as her youngest started High School... the kind of person that thinks nothing of working 7 days a week... I still get memos sent at 2 am or today on Sunday twice... when she is here there are 3 active computers and two cell phones... I really don't know how she is able to multi-task like she does at 61... her mom is 91 and teaches aerobics at the senior center... good genes I guess.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I've done some hiring.

A lot of people who have a job aren't really interested in a new job, they're looking for leverage to go to their current boss and demand a raise. Making an offer to someone like that is lose-lose. If they're good, their current boss will match your offer and you just wasted your time -- and possibly let some real candidates get away. If their current boss lets them go, there's probably a reason for that, and you just acquired someone else's problem.

So you learn to screen out people who you don't think are serious. As a job-seeker, it's important that you not come across that way.

 

[LD1]

I've done some hiring.

A lot of people who have a job aren't really interested in a new job, they're looking for leverage to go to their current boss and demand a raise. Making an offer to someone like that is lose-lose. If they're good, their current boss will match your offer and you just wasted your time -- and possibly let some real candidates get away. If their current boss lets them go, there's probably a reason for that, and you just acquired someone else's problem.

So you learn to screen out people who you don't think are serious. As a job-seeker, it's important that you not come across that way.

I do not know how I come across honestly. If I find a better job, using it for leverage is NOT my intent. About the only thing that can possibly change at my job is my pay. They aren't gonna give me dayshift ahead of a lot of others, or give me a pension or better match on 401k and not the other hundreds of employees, and they certainly ain't gonna relocate their facility closer to my house.

I apply because I am legitimately interested. But depending on the level of details in their wanted posting, I may interested in a job......or may only be interested in more information. Depending on that information....I may or may not be no longer interested.

But at this point, the only way I know how to get the info I require to make a decision, is by applying and waiting on a call.