If I was a barn builder

[rustyshakelford]

I have recently had a 52x84 (40x60 enclosed) built. The entire process was a nightmare and terrible in nearly every way. This has me considering starting a pole barn or metal barn construction company. I loved the crew that came out and built the building and have started a relationship with the concrete crew that I found local to pour the slab. With those two contacts lined up I would need to align with a lumber yard and metal supplier. Besides the odds and ends like doors and insulation, what else am I missing? I currently work full time for a fire dept and part time for another one also. I'm sick of being in fire stations when I'm off from my full time job. This would be a great change in pace. I have a few questions before I invest more time or money in this. I don't want anyone else to go thru what I did and know we can do a much better product with excellent service.

In Texas, what are the insurance requirements? I would be using contractors for both crews. Is there an umbrella policy or just a general liability?

I'm pretty sure they don't have a GC license here anymore. Is there anything other license or cert I would need?

Some things I've airways decided to include would be to leave my dump trailer on site for all trash. I can't tell you how frustrating it is walking out and there's trash everywhere. Even in a pile, apparently it's the homeowners responsibility to haul it off? It would be way to easy to do that while there.

Much more to add but would love to hear questions or comments. I.e. What you would like to see with a barn builder. Ideally don't want to build more than 1.5 hrs from home so it would be easier to personally stay up with each shop.

Brett

 

[bcp]

The thing that caught my attention was leaving the dump trailer. Too easy to steal it.

Have the local trash company leave a big dumpster, to be picked up when finished.

Bruce

 

[waycoolmarine]

would you recommend a carpenter go put out fires with no training , just the experience of watching the pros put out a fire. if you had a bad experience as a 1 time consumer how easy do you think it is to do multiple projects ? as a contractor / builder I can tell you we don't like or respect the guys who want to be a general contractor ,driving around in there car. if you want to build barns work for a builder for a few years and learn how to build and everything involved from the inside out , then buy a bunch of tools and a tractor and all terrain lift and a truck and trailer to haul it all and a building to store it when not on a jobsite and insure it all. then go out and sell a product you can stand behind just hiring subs is not a good idea or that easy there is a reason we are called independent contractors.

 

[joeu235]

I pay $1025 per year for $1M / $2M liability insurance coverage. I'm covered for most anything except only minor roof repairs so yours would be more expensive. If you have any employees you will also need Workers Comp coverage.

 

[jmc]

Well, since ya asked- It might be a mistake to project your bad builder experience across the whole industry. For example, I've done two Morton buildings and wouldn't want to try to compete with them on efficiency, workmanship, engineering support, and quality of materials. (Price might be an opportunity though.)

 

[rustyshakelford]

The thing that caught my attention was leaving the dump trailer. Too easy to steal it.

Have the local trash company leave a big dumpster, to be picked up when finished.

Bruce

Good point!

would you recommend a carpenter go put out fires with no training , just the experience of watching the pros put out a fire. if you had a bad experience as a 1 time consumer how easy do you think it is to do multiple projects ? as a contractor / builder I can tell you we don't like or respect the guys who want to be a general contractor ,driving around in there car. if you want to build barns work for a builder for a few years and learn how to build and everything involved from the inside out , then buy a bunch of tools and a tractor and all terrain lift and a truck and trailer to haul it all and a building to store it when not on a jobsite and insure it all. then go out and sell a product you can stand behind just hiring subs is not a good idea or that easy there is a reason we are called independent contractors.

These aren't rocket science. The installer hit me up about being a GC and wanted to work for me. Basically what it comes down to is meeting with a customer about what they want, get a material take off, order materials to be delivered and call the install crew to come build it. When done, have the concrete company do the final grade and pour the slab. 90% of what would need to be done is on the phone or email. Organizing and scheduling, both of which I am organized with. Why carry all that overhead when they contractor has his own tools? You might not respect me thru this thread and that's fine but you don't know me or my experience.

To me it sounds like your the guy that has no respect for an engineer because you naturally assume they have never worked their hands or have any real life experience.

I pay $1025 per year for $1M / $2M liability insurance coverage. I'm covered for most anything except only minor roof repairs so yours would be more expensive. If you have any employees you will also need Workers Comp coverage.

If they are contract labor, doesn't the contractor have to carry it? I'll talk to the acct and possible a labor lawyer.

Well, since ya asked- It might be a mistake to project your bad builder experience across the whole industry. For example, I've done two Morton buildings and wouldn't want to try to compete with them on efficiency, workmanship, engineering support, and quality of materials. (Price might be an opportunity though.)

If I had my building built by a local company, I would have paid minimum $20k more for the same if not a little smaller. My area has shown it can support these inflated prices. Labor is cheap, materials are low and there's a ton of work. Since these companies get paid these higher prices they can charge it. If I was the middle priced guy, I would be able to afford to build the building the right way and include a bunch of extras the others gouge for. I'm not looking to get rich, just another source of income to diversify my time. Doing the same thing for 100 hrs a week gets old

Brett

 

[s219]

My dad was a builder and I worked with him on almost every aspect of building homes and other buildings. We just built a custom home here a couple years ago, then barn, pier, etc. What I find important is that the builder/GC himself is an expert familiar with all the work and building codes, because ultimately he is responsible for the job. Subcontractors come and go, sometimes mysteriously, and may leave the builder/customer in the lurch. As a builder, you need to be prepared to handle that, and you need the day-to-day expertise to oversee the subs and make sure their work is up to snuff and safe.

With what I know about the mechanics of building a house, I could have served as my own GC and saved a bunch of money. But having seen my dad do that job for decades, I knew I wanted to find a good builder to run the job. It's a lot of work and a lot of responsibility. The builder needs to be an expert. There are plenty of mediocre builders in this area who just schedule subs. They make an OK house, but the difference between them and the true seasoned craftsmen builders is dramatic.

Homes are not barns, but my general thoughts still apply.

 

[farm boy00]

I would highly recommend working for a company for a year or 2 to learnt the trade. Not to be mean but you need to know fully what you are doing, what could go wrong, who to hire and the prices.

What happens when something fails 2 years down the road from your hired crew that didn't do it right?? But you didn't know it because you just expect then to build properly.

You need to know every little detail so everyday you can walk through the job site and point out the flaws. NEVER I REPEAT NEVER RELY ON A HIRED CREW. If you bid them cheap work they will give you cheap labor. Do any of the crews you plan to hire speak Spanish. If so you need to know Spanish very well. Why I say this is because every crew I've worked next to has Mexicans on it.

You can't just jump into this without a few years under your belt of building. Even if you ain't hitting the nails yourself

 

[bigtiller]

If I had my building built by a local company, I would have paid minimum $20k more for the same if not a little smaller. My area has shown it can support these inflated prices. Labor is cheap, materials are low and there's a ton of work. Since these companies get paid these higher prices they can charge it. If I was the middle priced guy, I would be able to afford to build the building the right way and include a bunch of extras the others gouge for. I'm not looking to get rich, just another source of income to diversify my time. Doing the same thing for 100 hrs a week gets old

Brett

Time, is a big thing for the self employed because sometimes they have to work 7 days a week. But one of the benefits of being the boss is you only have to work half a day....it's your choice if you work the daylight half or the dark half.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Time, is a big thing for the self employed because sometimes they have to work 7 days a week. But one of the benefits of being the boss is you only have to work half a day....it's your choice if you work the daylight half or the dark half.

That would be great because doing both wears you out. If I only had to be gone 10 days a month and was home at night the rest of the time, I'd be happy and so would my family

Brett

 

[Deere Dude]

One thing to consider is the architectural aspect of pole barns etc. It seems all companies need their own architects.

I had two pole barns put up by different companies and every little change needed to go through their architectural department and reconfigured. Some changes were not much more than adding a couple extra boards, but then others needed truss sizes changed to accommodate span and load changes.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Pole barns down here are an pretty simple design. Most are 30x30x10 up to 40x60x16 on the high end. Options are lean-to or gable extensions and Windows or doors. Not trying to become a barndaminium contractor or custom home builder. Just build something like this (stolen from my thread)

Brett

 

[bigtiller]

That would be great because doing both wears you out. If I only had to be gone 10 days a month and was home at night the rest of the time, I'd be happy and so would my family

Brett

I was trying to jovially say is that a successful a entrepreneurial is readily available to work 16 hour days and 7 days a week to grow their business. If this is unacceptable, the business adventure may not be successful.


I don't know what you are trying to say in this post.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I was trying to jovially say is that a successful a entrepreneurial is readily available to work 16 hour days and 7 days a week to grow their business. If this is unacceptable, the business adventure may not be successful.


I don't know what you are trying to say in this post.

Haha. I work 100 hrs per week. If I could get this going id be able to drop 36 hrs which would be a huge reduction. I just want to work my 10 24-hr days a month away from home and be home every night the rest of the days. I'm not afraid of work nor the commitment but being home at night would be great.

Brett

 

[CADplans]

If you have the skill set for such an endeavor,,, why have you waited until now?
Refinance your house, and everything else you own, throw your money into it,,,
and go to work!!:thumbsup:

 

[Steppenwolfe]

would you recommend a carpenter go put out fires with no training , just the experience of watching the pros put out a fire. if you had a bad experience as a 1 time consumer how easy do you think it is to do multiple projects ? as a contractor / builder I can tell you we don't like or respect the guys who want to be a general contractor ,driving around in there car. if you want to build barns work for a builder for a few years and learn how to build and everything involved from the inside out , then buy a bunch of tools and a tractor and all terrain lift and a truck and trailer to haul it all and a building to store it when not on a jobsite and insure it all. then go out and sell a product you can stand behind just hiring subs is not a good idea or that easy there is a reason we are called independent contractors.

I'm a Licensed General Contractor, 35 years. I would love to be a fire fighter, can't be that hard, and I wouldn't let all them buildings burn down like the fire dept does... It is that easy, ? Right...

 

[Steppenwolfe]

If you have the skill set for such an endeavor,,, why have you waited until now?
Refinance your house, and everything else you own, throw your money into it,,,
and go to work!!:thumbsup:

Don't forget the cash on hand to complete several jobs ( 250 to 400 K ) should do it, so you can buy materials, pay your crews, pay your own bills, and Uncle Sam, while you wait to be paid by the client. Because, the Boss's money always comes last.

 

[bdog]

If you are using contractors your work wil only be as good as they are. If you don't stay on top of them they will get sloppy. I suspect this is what happened to you. Construction is a skilled trade but it isn't rocket science. There is tons of competition and if you don't know your stuff you will get eaten for lunch. I have nothing to do with the construction industry but I built two barns myself. It isn't overly difficult and there are not a lot of barriers to entry. My point is you will be competing with a bunch of people who have tons more experience than you. Personally I would not do it until you have worked for someone else and built a dozen or so barns so that you have a firm grasp on what you are doing. I hired out building a 25x50 a couple of weeks ago. Well I say that I did all the concrete and welding myself and had someone else put the tin on. They did it in ten hours. I could have done it but it would have taken me days because I don't know all the tricks.

I have been self employed for ten years and my advice is unless you are darn good at what you do don't go out on your own because it won't be pretty. I am not trying to brag but I consider myself an expert in my field. I really don't know many people better than me at it. I started my business and I clean house because I know my stuff and others can't compete. I have been doing it nearly 25 years and know the business inside and out. Some new guy that doesn't know jack tries to enter my world he won't make it. My wife always talks about we should get into this business of that business and I always decline because I know trying to do something I know little about will lead to failure.

 

[kneedeep]

If you can work a year, pay material and labor out of pocket without collecting large deposits and draws on incomplete jobs (your money is after expenses) and put ALL of your profits back into the business, survive off what the wife makes, run your jobs from the Fire Department without a trusted employee (eyes on site), pay taxes on those profits (can't use anything as a tax deduction unless making a profit) and do this for several years- You might make it work.

Been Contracting for 25 years, seen many a good man lose everything trying to contract full time part time with no skin in the game.

 

[bspeedy]

I agree with the last three posters. Better have a big stack of cash on hand and experience to know who is screwing you and how. Organizational skills are great, but you have to know what's what.

What other skills do you have that could be made into a business? I don't get the impression from your first post that you have construction experience. Perhaps I missed something. Not trying to insult. Everything seems easy from the outside.