Water interruption results in expensive Dishwasher and Clothes Washer repairs.

[ultrarunner]

We have deeded Spring Water rights going back the pioneer days... about 50 years ago the Spring Source became parkland with the provision the Park maintain the Spring and the supply piping to the ranch.

The Park decided it needs to meter the water to track usage which is fine... we have a minimum daily allotment which is primary.

The problem is the contractor chosen to splice in a meter has had 7 blowouts... making the supply intermittent at best... as much a 20,000 gallons lost each time.

The system uses 150 psi 2" piping for a typical 140 psi working pressures covering a distance of 1.5 miles... it has worked well for years...

Yesterday was wash day and the line in the park blew again... both the Miele Dishwasher and Front Loader Washer were on at the time and now both pumps require replacement... I guess it makes perfect sense.

In the past we would get advanced notice for schedule repairs, however, these are not scheduled.

We have a small 1000 gallon buffer tank... can't really think of a way to prevent this from happening again.

 

[yankeerider]

What caused the pimp failures? Grit from water contamination or loss of water? If the latter, couldn't you install a pressure switch to trip the two appliances on low water pressure? And for the former, maybe a filter?

 

[joefromga]

What caused the pimp failures?...

Lack of hos?

 

[C4Ranch]

Sorry, not clear, you have a 1k gal buffer tank, that should handle most/all outages?

Do u have a jet pump coming off the buffer tank? I would set it up so that everything is fed off the buffer and you put a small pump and pressure tank off it.

I have 2 1.5k gal tanks with a similar set up feeding the ranch house,

 

[ultrarunner]

No pump... simply gravity that provides consistent 38 psi to the home.

1000 gallon Tank is at elevation and some distance from home.

Had no idea the pipe blew out Wednesday... as all was good Friday morning.

Came home and sister in law turned on the Washer and Dishwasher and headed to run errands out to pick up the kids.

When they got home the kids went to wash hands and no water... investigated and the 1000 gallon tank empty... took a drive to the property line and saw the area on the park side had been flooded.

It would seem pressure switches/relays would work... just adding another level of complexity...

Seems the washer and dishwasher will fill or try to fill until satisfied and no water meant they ran for a long time...

Grit settles in the 1000 gallon tank... so the water to home is very clean... water is very clean in general... best Spring Water in the county...

 

[JPRambo]

set up a float with an alarm for low water level

 

[MossRoad]

Lack of hos?

That's "hose".... :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

We have deeded Spring Water rights going back the pioneer days... about 50 years ago the Spring Source became parkland with the provision the Park maintain the Spring and the supply piping to the ranch.

The Park decided it needs to meter the water to track usage which is fine... we have a minimum daily allotment which is primary.

The problem is the contractor chosen to splice in a meter has had 7 blowouts... making the supply intermittent at best... as much a 20,000 gallons lost each time.

The system uses 150 psi 2" piping for a typical 140 psi working pressures covering a distance of 1.5 miles... it has worked well for years...

Yesterday was wash day and the line in the park blew again... both the Miele Dishwasher and Front Loader Washer were on at the time and now both pumps require replacement... I guess it makes perfect sense.

In the past we would get advanced notice for schedule repairs, however, these are not scheduled.

We have a small 1000 gallon buffer tank... can't really think of a way to prevent this from happening again.

As others have mentioned, put a low pressure switch on the incoming water line (probably before the buffer tank) that either triggers an alarm (no good if you're not home), or trips a relay that kills power to the appliances that use water.

 

[MossRoad]

....

It would seem pressure switches/relays would work... just adding another level of complexity...

...

As you know (through our conversations about "stuff" over the years), you can redundancy yourself into the poorhouse.

What's worth more?
- An electrician charging you X dollars to install a pressure switch and some relays?
- Attempting to make the contractor that caused the outage pay for the damage?
- Having no dish washer or clean laundry for X days?
- Purchasing new appliances or repairs to existing appliances every time it happens?

:confused3:

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't live there so the options are limited...

The water is one of the reasons they bought the place... it is very simple being all gravity.

The buffer tank is quite a distance away... no power. The tank should basically always be full... since a 20,000 gallon tank feeds it from 1.5 miles away.

There are a several others upstream that have not had the as many problems... they are T into the line that serves the ranch with the ranch being at the end of the line... the contractor says it is hydraulic shock as it is a straight downhill from the big tank to the property ling... then it goes uphill on my brothers place and then down and then to his buffer tank... basically the same for 150 years.

A pressure switch at the house would stop the cycles the same as a power outage.

A tank sensor would need to be battery operated and wireless.

He has been very understanding with the park service... but it is getting to be a bit much.

I guess a homeowner's claim could be made... but it is difficult to get coverage outside city limits.

 

[MossRoad]

Since its all gravity, maybe a level sensor in the tank would be the better option. Have the level sensor control a relay that cuts off power to the appliances so they don't burn up if the tank gets to a certain level. If the tank's too far away for that, how about a simple "tall" pipe in the house could serve as a local tank. Put a sensor at the top of it. If it goes dry, it'll kill the power to the appliances before they burn up. Just thinking out loud.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thinking outside the box... I like it.

Never heard of a tall pipe but it makes sense.

 

[MossRoad]

Me neither, but I had no better term for it! :laughing:

 

[ustmd]

"Seems the washer and dishwasher will fill or try to fill until satisfied and no water meant they ran for a long time..."

I thought that most dishwashers/washing machines have a fill timer and if the machine does not fill within the allotted time, the machine will error out.

 

[Gary Fowler]

What kind of idiot do they have running the park to allow 150 PSI rated piping for 140 PSI service. If you are going by any Code to install or engineer, testing procedures would be at minimum 1.5 times operating pressure or 211 psi test pressure. In order to safely test the pipe should then be about + 1.5 times minimum for that so around 350 PSI proof. Anyone using service rating that close to the operating pressure is just inviting blow out. I would sue the azz for replacement appliance AND make them at the same time dig up all the pipe and install high pressure pipe to replace the sub par stuff they put in. Also part of the lawsuit would be for them to furnish potable water to full your tank daily till the new line is in + a little money on the side for your aggravation.

 

[ultrarunner]

From your lips to God's ear...

The park system contracts things like this... I do Hospital systems and I would never expect reliability with a 140 static on a 150 psi line.

The pressure is higher at the break because it is down in the valley... and then it gains elevation before dropping to the homestead.

The plan now is to install a $1800 pressure regulator upstream... they are limited to how much it can be reduced and still meet fire fighting needs...

For a 150 years there has not been a problem... California passed a law mandating meters... not sure it applies in this case but that is the direction.