Buyers remorse

[tdhandm]

January 23, 2016
Today I went out to plow out from the about two feet of snow to find my Ventrac 4500K with yet another problem. Although it started and will move forward and backwards it will not steer and the snow blade will not operate. The Ventrac has 167 hours on it. I checked the hydraulic fluid level to make sure it was OK and then called dealer. My dealer says it is my fault because I didn稚 read the service manual as the machine needs hydraulic service after fifty hours and that is why it won稚 work. I rechecked my manual which says to change filter after one thousand hours not 50 hours. This is just another in a long list of problems I have had with this overpriced machine. Right from the beginning the machine backfires when you turn off the key and I have been given several conflicting instructions on how to make it stop doing this. Also the speedometer has never worked. I had only a few hours on the tractor when the fuel pump quit working and was replaced with a makeshift electric fuel pump. I could go on about other problems concerning broken bolts and belts but I知 told that those are just 杜inor things and I will love this machine. It is true that I do like the tractor when it is working but it is not reliable and you cannot depend on it. Buyers beware.
Regards,
Ray L Dixon

 

[murphy1244]

What year is it? Call the factory in Ohio, they do back their product.

 

[Bird]

Right from the beginning the machine backfires when you turn off the key and I have been given several conflicting instructions on how to make it stop doing this.

I know nothing about your Ventrac, and I don't know what instructions you've been given to keep it from backfiring. However, my Toro ZTR would really backfire big time until I figured out how to prevent it. The dealer had told me to not try to shut it down at idle. The manual simply says to "Move the throttle lever to between Fast and half throttle" then turn the key off. That did not work. BUT, I've found that all I have to do is bring the throttle all the way back to idle, wait just long enough for the engine to wind down to idle, shove the throttle all the way to wide open, and turn off the key promptly before the engine gets up to speed. I always do that and it never backfires.

So that may or may not help with your machine. It's just what works with mine.

 

[LD1]

Lots of things dont seem right here.

I assume you have the B&S vanguard engine? If so, that appears to be the cheapest offering in the 4500. The others being kawasaki and kubota.

In either case, in small engines, many of them backfire and its about finding the right shutdown procedure. My kohler on my scag does the same thing and I do similar to what Bird said. Only I shut the key off first THEN promptly shove the lever to full throttle. But normally I dont even worry about the back fire.

But the two things I find really disturbing is

1. Big conflict between what your dealer says, and what you say is written in the manual. Typically, a first service on a new machine IS done at 50 hours. Then there-after whatever interval the manual calls for. You have lots of new parts that need broken in. And further, are you POSITIVE this calls for 1000hr hydraulic oil/filter change? Because that seems like a VERY long time for that type of a machine. I personally wouldnt want to run it that long without changing. Especially if this thing only sees ~50-100hrs a year. Cause that would be 10 years of condensation contamination. Which could be your issue. How old is the machine? If it is more than a few, and never changed the oil, it could have moisture in the oil freezing up a valve or something.

2. Second thing that is disturbing IMO is your speedometer never worked and the fuel pump quit after just a few hours. Ok, no big deal, things happen. BUT WHY didnt you get the speedo fixed, and WHY was the fuel pump repair a "makeshift repair" and not replaced with an OEM unit? I assume you bought this new, and that it came with a warranty?

If anything, you are guilty of not making you dealer preform proper warranty repairs.

But as to the current problem at hand, need some of the above questions answered before I can even speculate.

 

[Coyote machine]

You would be helping us help you by saying where you're located. And I'd worry less about being remorseful, and more about finding a way to get your issues resolved properly. The gauge and fuel pump repairs, or lack thereof sound off to me. Someone is not doing their job properly,and these things need to be fixed, if under warranty, with factory replacement parts.
The trans oil filter thing is something that should be done, warranty or not, sooner than later at this point so a new filter can begin to do it's work.
If you're in a frozen climate a hydraulic filter could have accumulated particulate and condensation causing it to eventually bypass doing any filtration, or worst case it could be frozen solid if there is a lot of condensation/water present. Hydraulic filtration is as important, if not more important that engine oil filtration, due to higher pressures and the need for absolutely clean oil for functionality. Regardless of book specs, doing a filter change, and possibly a simultaneous hydraulic fluid change can't hurt the tractor, and can only insure you are knowing when both were last changed out, for your records and possible better results in current climatic conditions like you find yourself currently experiencing.
Give us more details, then we can better help you.

 

[MossRoad]

I wouldn't expect a reply from the OP. He's only made 3 posts. His first was in 2009 to complain about a log splitter and dealer. His second was 5 years later ( Oct, 2014 ) to complain about this Ventrac purchase and dealer, and his third post was this thread about the same Ventrac and dealer.

So he needs to help himself.

 

[Rustyiron]

If you're in a frozen climate a hydraulic filter could have accumulated particulate and condensation causing it to eventually bypass doing any filtration, or worst case it could be frozen solid if there is a lot of condensation/water present.

That's the first thing that came to mind for me also.

 

[Coyote machine]

I wouldn't expect a reply from the OP. He's only made 3 posts. His first was in 2009 to complain about a log splitter and dealer. His second was 5 years later ( Oct, 2014 ) to complain about this Ventrac purchase and dealer, and his third post was this thread about the same Ventrac and dealer.

So he needs to help himself.

Such a cynic!:laughing: Where's your faith in people?!

 

[2458n]

Maybe he has been here all along and just does not like to post. 1000 hours seems like a long time fluid change though.

 

[LD1]

Interesting, the other two posts that is.

Seems freezing is a real issue, obviously, since he needs it to plow snow. I am guessing location somewhere around morgantown WV since that's the location of the dealer he named in the other post.

It appears he bought it in summer 2014 So 167 hrs isn't alot in that time. Condensation is a real issue. But that said, doesn't ventrac have a 3year residential warranty? So why are so many things wrong/broke that ain't being taken care of?

Murphy, you have a 4500 don't you? Care to shed some light on the 1000hr hydro service he claims?

 

[LD1]

Just downloaded a 4500k manual.

First oil and filter change for the hydraulics was called for at 100 hours, then at 500. Then from that point on, every 1000.

Don't understand how people expect a machine to be reliable if you can't folow a simple service schedule.

The speedo and fuel pump sucks, but at this point I am not sure I believe that. I don't think any dealer out there, without good reason , is gonna jerry-rig a fuel pump and not fix a broken speedo on a new machine without a **** good reason

 

[4570Man]

My ZTR has a Kohler motor on it. If you reduce the motor speed to the slowest possible idle and let it run for about 20 seconds before shutting it off will almost always prevent backfires. If it does happen to backfire they are very small. He is only 67 hours over when he was supposed to change the oil. I'd change it and see if the condition doesn't improve.

 

[murphy1244]

Interesting, the other two posts that is.

Seems freezing is a real issue, obviously, since he needs it to plow snow. I am guessing location somewhere around morgantown WV since that's the location of the dealer he named in the other post.

It appears he bought it in summer 2014 So 167 hrs isn't alot in that time. Condensation is a real issue. But that said, doesn't ventrac have a 3year residential warranty? So why are so many things wrong/broke that ain't being taken care of?

Murphy, you have a 4500 don't you? Care to shed some light on the 1000hr hydro service he claims?

LD1 my service is scheduled for 1000 hours before filter and 2000hours or 5 years on fluid change. I have the Kubota diesel and noooo problems here. I just put the kabosh on me.

 

[LD1]

Well, the 4500k manual I downloaded called for hydraulic oil/filter at 100, 500, 1500, 2500, etc

 

[murphy1244]

Well, the 4500k manual I downloaded called for hydraulic oil/filter at 100, 500, 1500, 2500, etc

Well I just checked my book for my year and it says what it says.

 

[Coyote machine]

I downloaded the manual too, and it says 100, 500 and 1500 hours for hydraulic FILTER changes, and 500 then 1000 for hydraulic OIL, then every 1000 after that; EXCEPT 1/2 the std. interval for heavy load, high temps, etc.
Page 61 of the ser. man.
Dems the fax Jack!

So the OP needs to READ the service interval page and DO what it says, and get the dealer to FIX the issues already mentioned.

 

[prs]

The manual that came with my tractor, a 4500Z, is a bit different and there have been at least one revision available online since. Now, I reckon you can follow the schedule printed in the manual that came with your machine and be fully covered in warranty period; but there may be a reason they have updated and if an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.... Murphy, take a few minutes to download the latest edition from the Ventrac site. By that schedule, I am within an hour or so of the 100 hour change of the two filters, not the fluid. Just change the filters and top off the reservoir. The fluid change interval has been shortened too. That one needs to be done by dealer and using their "special tool", probably a pre-filtering device. I will probably follow the revised schedules.

prs

 

[Coyote machine]

LD1 my service is scheduled for 1000 hours before filter and 2000hours or 5 years on fluid change. I have the Kubota diesel and noooo problems here. I just put the kabosh on me.

Don't know what year you have, but a 4500Y in the manual, (rev 12/07/15 shows on page 66 the service schedule) is exactly the same as the one LD1 and I cited for hours. I realize your's is a diesel, and depending on what year it was manufactured it could of course vary. Thought I'd mention it just so you can verify it for your own peace of mind. Those seem like high hour specs for your change intervals?:confused3:

 

[LD1]

I wouldn't think the engine would make a difference in how often the hydraulics get service.

I think changing the oil has mostly to do with moisture. We almost never change oils at work. Only filters. But the machines run 24/7 in a climate controlled environment.

When it comes to oil service, setting is worse than running. Humidity and temperature swings that I am sure the OP in WV have are similar to here in ohio. A machine he purchased in summer of 2014, so the fluid has probably been in there a good 2 years. And only 167 hours.....regardless of what book says, it needs changed

 

[murphy1244]

The end