Ford 4600 hydraulic question

[SAMJOHNSON]

I bought a FORD 4600 with Bush Hog brand loader on it a while back for what seemed to be a fair price. Seems to be a really good solid tractor with only 735 something hours on it. I am the third owner. Guy I bought it from bought it 10 years or so ago with only several hundred hours on it when he got it. It had been barn kept and maintained. I have a leaky power steering cylinder to fix. The tach needle is broke in half but works and points to where the RPM should be. The diesel gauge doesn't work. But everything else runs great, mows great, drives good, fires up real quick. The pressing problem with this tractor is the hydraulics work just fine except on an incline. I am referring to both the 3pt and the FEL. I first noticed this bushoggin' up a grade. I had to drive over a rock, and up an old eroded terrace. So, I am driving and lifting the mower simultaneously. Once I hit the terrace, my 3pt hitch stopped lifting. I checked my loader and it wouldn't lift either. Once I got on level ground, loader and lift worked fine, even simultaneously, despite this tractors rather low hydraulic flow. On level ground, I raised 3pt/mower up, it held, FEL worked as it should. I did notice some surging in the lift with the mower lifted all the way up ( a slight dip and recover). This tractor is new to me, but I have never had a tractor before not lift on a slope. But I am not familiar with this tractor, so I am here asking what is normal and/or what may be wrong?
Later that day, I pulled up to a dirt pile to get a scoop, and the lift and loader did the same thing, failed to work. Well, it worked, but took about 30-45 seconds to raise the FEL 3'. 3pt didn't wish to move at all (this time harrows attached). This slope was more like a 4:12 pitch or less. Backed onto level ground and everything worked awesome.

So, what are yall's thoughts? Low fluid? Is there some sort of sump issue? I changed engine oil, antifreeze, power steering etc and such when I got it, but I am not certain about the hydraulics. Does the tranny and hydraulics share the same fluid? Where do I check tranny/hydraulic fluid?

 

[Jerry/MT]

The first thing I'd check is the fluid level. The rear axle shares the hydraulic fluid with the hydraulic system so it sounds like you maybe low on fluid, since the hydraulic performance is degraded on a slope. Note the fluid color. If it looks like coffee with a double cream there is water in it. Drain the fluid out and replace it with new tractor fluid meeting Ford's M2C-134D spec. DO NOT USE STRIGHT HYDRAULIC FLUID! You might consider changing the hydraulic filter while you are at it.

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

Thanks! I downloaded a service manual and found some more info as well. It looks like the FEL needs to be fully lifted and the 3pt fully raised also, according to the service manual. Never would have done that....

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

So, I have been reading the service manual, and have concluded a proper owners manual is what I need, but have yet to locate. I appreciate any input, and patience........
I am not making much sense of the shop manual. Not as straight forward as a Climer or Chilton book. Really need to find an operators manual with straight forward operation and maintenance information. The old man I bought it from could tell me little. He is in his 80's and recently had a stroke.

I am going to skip around a bit, so hang on.... This manual overlaps so many models, I get lost sometimes, but keep in mind this initial issue of the hydraulics cutting out is the main concern.
This model is a 4600 SU. And please excuse me, I am a pretty good electrician and moderately successful contractor, but not a great mechanic. I am capable, just lack some knowledge. Plus, I am not up to speed on tractor mechanic lingo. I am decent on my trucks and vans.........now that we got that out of the way.....it stated the fluid level plug was on the right side on the center axle housing in front of the rear axle housing. Right side is passenger side in American vehicle nomenclature, correct? The rear axle has three sections, so the plug is on the right side of the center section and appears to be about half way to the rear of the tranny housing. Looks like a square headed plug. It is just below the hydraulic flow valve. The valve is a round knob about big around as my thumb. Anyways, this square headed plug is the only thing I found on the right side that logically fits the manual description of fluid check plug. The other bolts held on that flow valve assembly.

Also, to narrow down this model and features, I see no hydraulic pump on the engine. Two are described in particular depth: a piston type and gear driven type. Both are described as being in the rear of the engine. All I see is a starter on one side and nothing on the other side. A third is described also, being in the rear end, so this pump is in rear end?
Also, amongst all the confusion of this manual, I concluded there are two filters for the hydraulics: a screen and a paper filter, both in the the rear. Does this sound correct? The replacement of these require removing the lift arm assembly it looks like.
There are only two filters externally that I have found on this tractor: Fuel and oil.
The next question I have is how to fill the rear end? I see a drain plug in the rear, just ahead of the drawbar, but see no means to fill it.

Note to self...... This manual seems to be more for overhaul than general service. I suspect this was written for professionals, not the layperson that simply wants to mow and plow their homestead.

IF I could bother with but a few of more queries......The tractor has an aftermarket FEL, and one set of remotes. There is an aluminum block under the seat with hoses coming in and out. This , if I am correct replaced/bypassed the priority valve to accommodate the FEL and rear remotes. On one end of this aluminum block, I notice a lever that pivots on one end and attaches to a piston about midways. It seems to move on its own under tractor operation. What should I know about this? Do I need to manually move this to divert fluid or does this always operate on it's own? I have decided to let sleeping dogs lie on this til someone teaches me. My guess is it changes the priority of hydraulic flow based on the draw of fluid, but that's a guess. Like I said, I see it move on it's own from time to time. I suppose I could manually direct flow, why else would there be a handle on it otherwise, but what would could I be breaking in the process? Til someone tells me, I will leave it alone.

I also notice one thing about this aftermarket valve body, there is a selector lever, to the side and below it, that is partly obstructed by a hose coming out of this aftermarket valve body. My old IH had a similar selector switch, I never used it, but seem to remember it cut off my 3 pt lift arms. The Ford manual states this selector goes from 3 pt only, to remote only, with the middle detent position "pressure is directed to both 3-pt lift cylinder and remote cylinder port in selector valve when control valve is in raising position." Ok, so I got all of that except for the "when control valve is in raising position, " part. The other thing is, the shop manual does not tell you which direction does what. My question is, what function does this selector have now with the after market valve body (the one with the hoses going to the FEL). The lever an only move back and straight up, the hose blocks it from full range of motion. It is one of them things I could inadvertently hit and in looking at today, began to wonder. I am not sure if I may have moved it. The hydraulics work, but could this be in the wrong spot affecting my hydraulic system or is it bypassed? Still today, things work flawlessly, on level ground. Just need to determine the fluid level plug and where the heck I add fluid to rear....

Back to the other valve.....This has to do with that valve on the right side just below the lift arm/rear end cover. I have concluded this is the flow control valve. Doesn't seem to do much. I will leave it alone for now. I can screw it in and out. What does in vs out do? No markings on it and nothing specific in the manual. Could this be something to watch as far as hydraulic performance?

Note to self: service manual expects you to know full operation prior to working on tractor or reading this manual.......

And to be clear, the tranny and rear diff have separate fluid, correct? This service manual has a lot of overlap between models and is very confusing. Looks like the tractor breaks into three main sections: engine, tranny, rear end. With three distinct drain plugs, this appears correct. Or,is the rear plug to drain fluid for the wet brakes? To add further to my confusion, the manual states fluid for the hydraulic lift system is " common with differential and final drive lubricant and on models X.Y,Z the wet brakes lubricant fluid is separated from the transmission lubricant by oil seals." So, the rear end and wet brakes use common oil, while the tranny is separated? Right? The tranny fluid looks like new.

I promise this is the last question, this tractor runs great, drives great, steers well, has more power than I could possibly need. But on some occasions, it is difficult to up/down shift or change the range. I may drive into a corner and need to back out or shift down while going through a rough spot of field. Can't do it. Grinding and chattering. Is this a clutch engagement issue or is there some sort of brake on the tranny failing or do I just need to learn how to operate it? I am not expecting to shift on the fly......I just wish to stop and change gears.

 

[barbqranch]

Have you tried eBay for an operator's manual? That is where I got mine for my TC29D.

 

[Jerry/MT]

It sounds like you have an IT manual and that's really not what you need. They are designed for people who work on a lot of different tractors in a shop.

In my opinion. you need to invest in a factory operators manual as a minimum. I'd recommend a factory service manual also. They are spendy ($150-$200) but they have system descriptions as well as repair procedures and you can see what a repair entails and decide whether or not you are capable of tackling it. At $80-$100 per shop hour, the manuals will pay for themselves for the first repair you do. You can find used factory manuals on ebay and reprints or actuals manuals for Fords on New Holland's web site.

The level plug on my 4610 is on the rear axle housing just below and aft of the valve pack on the right side of the AXLE HOUSING and it's an allen plug. I believe the 4600 will have it in the same place but if I'm wrong, someone will correct me. the differential housing is separate from the transmission housing but they use the same type of oil M2C-134D spec oil. the brakes run in the same oil from the diffy housing on my 4610 so I think your 4600 is the same.

Gear grinding on the unsynchronized 4x2 tranny is common, even when shifting with the tractor stopped especially if the oil is warmed by tractor use. Try double clutching. I can sometimes shift without grinding on the fly by double clutching but I don't shift on the fly often. I pick a gear and pretty much stay there. My New Holland is synchronized and I shift on the fly with that just like a car.

The hydraulic pump is internal to the differential housing on the right hand side. There is a circular plate with some bosses on it that holds some valving for the hydraulic system. It's right above the foot board at your heel. Regarding the diverter block, it is supposed to allow you to port pressurized fluid to another valve like a loader valve. As far as the selector valve is concerned, I believe that it allows you to select the hydraulics to the service valve, the three point, or both. You'll have to experiment to find out what position does what. The flow control valve is supposed to control the speed of the 3 pt when you drop it. Since the 4600 is an older machine than my 4610, there may be some nuances in the hydraulics that I am unaware of so take this info with a grain of salt.. This is where a factory manual can be helpful.

Don't apologize for asking questions. That's what these forums are for. You have acesss to hundreds of years of experience and it's free. We won't always have the answers but we can lead you to finding the correct solutions to your tractor problem. Keep coming back and let us know what you find. It's real discouraging to try to help someone and in the middle of a thread they drop out and you never find out what their real problem was and what fixed it. We all learn from each other.

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

I do have the IT manual. I know how to double clutch. My old GMC had an Eaton 13 speed. Clutch linkages were pretty wore, so, I mostly shifted without using the clutch.
I will look for those manuals...

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

$477.95 OUCH!

Ford Service for model 4600 | PDF | Manuals

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

Found both on ebay- reprints, but the shop manual came with the binder and looks nicely done.

 

[Jerry/MT]

$477.95 OUCH!

Ford Service for model 4600 | PDF | Manuals

try this location. These are genuine Ford manual not reprints from jensales. Object moved

They are spendy but cheaper than Jensales and better quality. if you can find them on ebay they are generally cheaper. As I said before, at $80 to $100 per shop hour they will pay for themselves and you can expense them off at tax time

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

Thought I would get back to you guys......I was low on fluid. Rain and my job have kept me from playing farmer.

Anyways, this tractor has no external hydraulic filter. The manual shows one under what should be the tread plate for the left side/foot. There is a round cover of some sort that projects out of the rear axle housing. It is kind of behind the clutch linkages. My owners manual shows a clear image of a hydraulic filter under this left tread plate. Further more, the part the filter screws onto attaches to the tractor where that round cover is. A local Ford mechanic says he has never seen a 4600 without an external hydraulic filter, but this is the only thing different I have seen to indicate it is a 4600. Told me he didn't think it was 4600, but nobody has seen it all......but, people paint things, and may order the wrong decals.
So, I looked it over and checked the manuals. Hydraulic pump is on right side of tractor behind parking brake. Not a 2600 or 3600. They had hydraulic pumps on the engine. It is a 4600. It is an SU by the way.

So, do I take it that this has a screen or something in the sump? How do I access it for cleaning? I cannot find this info anywhere. Could I, and would it be worth it to, convert to accept an external filter? It has an FEL, if that makes a difference.

 

[TractorTech]

Sam, can you tell us what the model code and date code are found on the RH bell housing ledge just behind the starter? The serial number, starting with a C is also stamped there. The model and date codes will tell you exactly what you have. The lack of external filter is not unusual.
The pump inlet filter is accessed by pulling the pump or removing the 3 point top cover. Not something easy to do and not necessary.
One thing that troubles me about checking levels you said. Ford never recommended checking oil levels with the 3 point and/or loader raised. This could be very hazardous to your health. The fluid is at the correct level with everything on the ground.
Also, the transmission uses the same hydraulic fluid the rear axle uses. I am wondering if gear oil wasn't put in it and this is causing some of the gear drag and grinding. You might change the oil anyway to see if this wouldn't help alleviate the grinding.
But like Jerry said, the transmission tends to do that to some degree.

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

Sam, can you tell us what the model code and date code are found on the RH bell housing ledge just behind the starter? The serial number, starting with a C is also stamped there. The model and date codes will tell you exactly what you have. The lack of external filter is not unusual.
The pump inlet filter is accessed by pulling the pump or removing the 3 point top cover. Not something easy to do and not necessary.
One thing that troubles me about checking levels you said. Ford never recommended checking oil levels with the 3 point and/or loader raised. This could be very hazardous to your health. The fluid is at the correct level with everything on the ground.
Also, the transmission uses the same hydraulic fluid the rear axle uses. I am wondering if gear oil wasn't put in it and this is causing some of the gear drag and grinding. You might change the oil anyway to see if this wouldn't help alleviate the grinding.
But like Jerry said, the transmission tends to do that to some degree.

Disclaimer: I have had the flu, can't follow basic instructions I read.

I got the instructions direct from an original Ford operators manual for the 4600 tractor. In the section pertaining to the changing of the rear axle fluid, it stated to lower the lift arms and retract any external cylinders prior to drain, then refill to the level plug. After filling to level plug hole, it said to crank and raise rear and extend all external hydraulic cylinders, cut off engine and fill till level plug hole.
Level ground with lifts down and FEL cylinders retracted, it took right around 7 1/2 gallons. When I raised the front...wait just realized, I did not raise the rear lift arms, just the FEL, I did not tilt the bucket down either, come to think of it, the FEL lift cylinders are the only ones I extended..... anyways I added maybe 2 gallons extra to make level again, with lift arms down, FEL up and FEL bucket tilt cylinders retracted. The remaining fluid of the 10 gallons I had ended up replacing what I managed to drain from the power steering system.

I have to say, the FEL works like a champ now. So, I ignore the Ford manual and drain the surplus? I had wondered before I read the manual if it was necessary to add surplus fluid to accommodate the FEL.

The transmission is running hydraulic oil. It definitely isn't gear oil. Whether or not it is regular hydraulic oil or Ford 143D, who knows. I will change it anyway. The cheapest place for it around here (less than Wal-Mart, Tractor Supply and the tractor shops) is NAPA, but this one here sells a lot of big truck parts, makes hoses and handles a bit more than any other parts store around.

Codes: C411954
4bo14b
D1414C

So, I have a Ford 4000SU? I measured every dimension in the manuals and was like the 4600 except about 10-12" short. Measures as long as a 3000/4000 it seems.
Its a great running tractor. Will repaint it and restore it someday...

 

[TractorTech]

Interesting about the hydraulic level check! I stand corrected if that is what the manual says. The main thing is that there is plenty of oil for the pump in all situations. It is contrary to later models, mainly from a safety aspect and would probably be fine if it was lower. I wouldn't bother to empty the excess unless you see oil seeping or belching out of the rear housing someplace.
Yes, a Feb. 1974, 4000SU; right on the cusp. of models according to the model code and serial number. One visual, mechanically, is it only has one lever for the 3 pt. and a short lever under the seat to change from position to draft effect. The later models have two levers of equal size side-by-side to blend position and draft effects.

 

[SAMJOHNSON]

Note: that is in a FORD 4600 Manual....I will get the proper one asap, but most capacities seem the same, and many similarities exist.

One thing on the draft control I encountered:
I cannot use the draft control as is. The block added to to allow for the rear remotes and loader is connected in such a fashion I cannot utilize draft control, which I'd really like! The hose feeding into the FEL blocks the draft control lever from fully rotating forward, only about 1/2 way. I had thought of welding on an extension to clear the 90 degree elbow of the hydraulic line to remedy this. Would it be as simple as that, or are there detents or other issues to address? I plow and mow irregular terrain. Draft control would be handy.