Starter sticking to flywheel gear

[MOTractor]

Some jobs never end!

Split my tractor and replaced clutch. Got it back together, cranked it and the starter (that was working perfectly before tractor split) gear seems to get hung in the flywheel gear. There were no shims when I took the starter off. I put a washer over each starter stud and replaced starter - works perfectly. Took washers off and it hangs, washers back on and it works.

Have I fixed it, or just treated a symptom? Starter rebuild? Starter replace? Or get "real" shims instead of the washers?

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated!

John

 

[davesl708]

I think you should be fine with the washers if the clearance is not to much. Could the return spring on the clutch be getting weak preventing the sprocket from retracting with full contact with the flywheel?
The sprocket needs to be a close fit with the flywheel to reduce wear..

 

[Leejohn]

Bolts may have been bottomed out not getting the starter tight and cocking it.

 

[Soundguy]

did you mess with the flywheel or ring gear any?

 

[MOTractor]

did you mess with the flywheel or ring gear any?

Yes, when replacing the clutch I removed the flywheel to have it resurfaced.

 

[MOTractor]

I think you should be fine with the washers if the clearance is not to much. Could the return spring on the clutch be getting weak preventing the sprocket from retracting with full contact with the flywheel?
The sprocket needs to be a close fit with the flywheel to reduce wear..

I had the starter rebuilt today. Still does the same thing: hangs up on the flywheel, add a washer on each stud and it works perfect. Who would have thought that when splitting a tractor and replacing the clutch that the major problem would be the starter

 

[CCWKen]

I think LeeJohn is on the right track. Sounds like the bolts are bottoming out before they are tight. Adding the washer(s), in essence, shortens the bolts. It's common for crud and rust to build up in threaded holes. Try cleaning out the holes.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Don't know about your machine but on the old case desiels as the ring gear wears, burs can form that hang up the starter gear. A file fixes that. Seems unlikely though on a newly resurfaced ring gear. Just a thought.

 

[MOTractor]

I will pull the starter tomorrow evening and check the holes.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

if shimming fixed it great. It may have something to do with the fly wheel being mounted off several degrees from where before. On a 6 cylinder for example the engine will stop, in one of three places consistently. This would wear the ring gear out in those areas, when you moved the mounting, you where in an area that was less worn out? Just a thought.

 

[like2wheel]

Where exactly are you adding the washers?
I would amagine you are adding them between the starter & where it mounts, but the people that think the bolts are bottoming out might be thinking you are merely putting them behind the head of the bolt. I see no reason why a bolt would be suddenly bottoming out

In any event, a drive will stick if its too tight meshing with the flywheel, .035" is a good ballpark for teeth clearance. If you can get it in there with the drive extended, a larger size paperclip is a good gauge for that.

 

[Leejohn]

A good thing for gear mating is carbon paper or blueing, but it well not tell you backlash. The way I was taking it was him buting the washer between the nut and starter. He did say he split the tractor and he might of got the bolts mixed up.

 

[MOTractor]

The two washers (one for each stud) are between the starter and the mounting plate. I put the washers on to act as a shim.

I must have been asleep last night, no need for me to check the holes, the starter is mounted with studs, not bolts. The threads go all the way to the hole, plenty of room for the nut and lock washer.

 

[Leejohn]

That changes everything I said. For sure use shims that well brake the ears off. Now why is this is happened, I can only think of 3. Eather a shim was on the starter and got missplaced, or one on the flywheel and that could be laying around at the machine shop. Last the ring gear might of got move if it is the removeable type

 

[Soundguy]

I think LeeJohn is on the right track. Sounds like the bolts are bottoming out before they are tight. Adding the washer(s), in essence, shortens the bolts. It's common for crud and rust to build up in threaded holes. Try cleaning out the holes.

it sounds like to me he is shimmingthe startere OUT fromt he mount position, not adding washers to make longer bolts work.

this tells me the position of the ring gear / flywheel has moved in relation to where it was before.

 

[MOTractor]

Followup and what I hope is the final fix. I ordered felpro gasket paper (3/64 thick) and cut out the gasket paper to use as a shim. Seems to have fixed the problem, cranks easily, no starter noise - with any luck at all life is good now!

 

[Soundguy]

Hmm.. ok.. so now starter conductivity is solely thru mount bolts.. Ok.. still good amount of conduction surface area..

 

[MOTractor]

Does the shim need to be metal?

 

[100 td]

Did they remove the ring gear to surface the flywheel? If they did they may not have put it back on properly, and/or reversed it.
Did the person replacing the flywheel use a dial gauge to check it was fitted to the engine correctly to prove there was no run out and that it was sitting square?
Pull the starter and run a dial gauge on the ring gear and turn over by hand and check for run out. Also on flywheel face if possible. Ensure fuel stop is off.

 

[MOTractor]

I think everything was put back properly. The noise actually started before the flywheel was taken off. Let me explain the steps I took:

-Split the tractor and removed the old clutch, disc, pilot and release bearings. (flywheel not removed)

-Installed and adjusted the new clutch (w/ disc and bearings) put tractor back together.

-Cranked tractor and it screamed and clanked like crazy. I thought I had goofed up the adjustment or incorrectly installed the clutch, as the noise was coming from that general area. Turns out I was wrong

-Split tractor and removed the clutch and release bearing checked everything, including readjusting the clutch.

-Was working on it when the owner of the local tractor dealership stopped by, as we were talking he suggested that I have the flywheel resurfaced before putting it back together sounded good so I did. This is the only time the flywheel came off and it was making that noise before I took flywheel off.

-Put everything back together and it screamed and clanked like crazy.

-Figured out it was the starter. Shimmed between the starter and housing (to move starter out) with washers, no screaming. Removed shims, screamed. Put washers back on, no screaming. Replaced washers with 3/64" gasket, no screaming.

It is odd, almost makes me wonder if I lost a pre-existing shim? Depending upon the day there were up to 2 other people helping me I could have missed it.

Should I replace my gasket with a metal shim?

Seems to be working fine, I spent well over an hour harrowing fields the other day.