MF-65 reinstalling FEL

[CTWright]

Reinstalling the front end loader on my 59 MF-65 diesel. When hooking up and bleeding the lift arm cylinders I had some problems. Im using the tractor internal hydraulics with I believe is the factory diverter mounter under the seat. I have the 3 point section lever in the center position and the diverter to the FEL pulled towards the rear of the tractor. The cylinders lift fine when I pull back on the external spool valve. (I have a three valve set up mounted on the right post). When I go to retract, the cylinders keep lifting. The only way to retract is to switch the diverter valve to the forward position and pull the lever the same way as lifting.
So, what am I missing here. It appears the fluid is not returning back. Is my control spool valve mounted on the post malfunctioning? I did switch it with the bucket valve with no change. Is my diverter valve malfuntioning? Does my quadrant lever position affect the operation?

 

[boggen]

i don't have a clue about your tractor... just simple things to check...

if you have quick connects for the hydrualic lines. some times the QC will not seat properly. simply take them apart and then put the quick connect back together.

other words ever try to mess with an "air tool" and connect up the hose from the air compressor and the stupid quick connect will not hold and air gets blow out. or the quick connect will pop off. pretty much same thing for hydraulic quick connects. but you actually might get them to hold. but no oil flows through them.

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looking up info on tractordata TractorData.com Massey Ferguson 65 tractor information

i gotta ask do to age of tractor... if you are using SA (single acting) or DA (double acting) hydraulic cylinders. a single acting cylinder only has 1 hose connect to it. a double acting cylinder has 2 hoses connected to it.

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what does each of the 3 levers do? 1 raise/lower arms of the FEL, 1 to deal with bucket curl/uncurl. what is the third lever do? is it for a grapel or something for the FEL?

 

[Harry in Ky]

It looks to me that you have both pressure and return lines to/from the loader valve connected to the twin stick valve under the seat. Try removing the return hose and placing it into the trans filler hole for a free flow. See what that gains you.

 

[CTWright]

i don't have a clue about your tractor... just simple things to check...

if you have quick connects for the hydrualic lines. some times the QC will not seat properly. simply take them apart and then put the quick connect back together.

other words ever try to mess with an "air tool" and connect up the hose from the air compressor and the stupid quick connect will not hold and air gets blow out. or the quick connect will pop off. pretty much same thing for hydraulic quick connects. but you actually might get them to hold. but no oil flows through them.

===========
looking up info on tractordata TractorData.com Massey Ferguson 65 tractor information

i gotta ask do to age of tractor... if you are using SA (single acting) or DA (double acting) hydraulic cylinders. a single acting cylinder only has 1 hose connect to it. a double acting cylinder has 2 hoses connected to it.

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what does each of the 3 levers do? 1 raise/lower arms of the FEL, 1 to deal with bucket curl/uncurl. what is the third lever do? is it for a grapel or something for the FEL?

Thanks for the input. Tractor is a 1959, Cylinders are double acting, First lever is for the bucket, 2nd for the lift arms, third is plugged. The system was working before I took it off. No QDs in the system.

 

[CTWright]

It looks to me that you have both pressure and return lines to/from the loader valve connected to the twin stick valve under the seat. Try removing the return hose and placing it into the trans filler hole for a free flow. See what that gains you.

That I'll do. Thanks

 

[SIMassey]

Reinstalling the front end loader on my 59 MF-65 diesel. When hooking up and bleeding the lift arm cylinders I had some problems. Im using the tractor internal hydraulics with I believe is the factory diverter mounter under the seat. I have the 3 point section lever in the center position and the diverter to the FEL pulled towards the rear of the tractor. The cylinders lift fine when I pull back on the external spool valve. (I have a three valve set up mounted on the right post). When I go to retract, the cylinders keep lifting. The only way to retract is to switch the diverter valve to the forward position and pull the lever the same way as lifting.
So, what am I missing here. It appears the fluid is not returning back. Is my control spool valve mounted on the post malfunctioning? I did switch it with the bucket valve with no change. Is my diverter valve malfuntioning? Does my quadrant lever position affect the operation?

View attachment 440402View attachment 440403

I think you may have the supply and return lines reversed from the valve on top differential to the loader valve. I think front hose on massy valve is the supply when pulling the handle back. Try pushing the Massey valve lever forward and try at low engine speed very carefully to see if it makes a difference or be sure the flow from the tractor goes to the in port of the loader valve.

 

[CTWright]

Well, running the return cylinder operating valve hose directly to the transmission sump did nothing. Tried switching the hoses on the diverter valve. No change. Switching hoses was the same as switching the lever but I did it anyway just in case there was a check valve there. Tomorrow I'll start at the diverter valve and see what the flow looks like with the lever switched in each position. The three point works as it should with the diverter valve IAW the owners manual.

 

[boggen]

Reinstalling the front end loader on my 59 MF-65 diesel. When hooking up and bleeding the lift arm cylinders I had some problems. Im using the tractor internal hydraulics with I believe is the factory diverter mounter under the seat. I have the 3 point section lever in the center position and the diverter to the FEL pulled towards the rear of the tractor. The cylinders lift fine when I pull back on the external spool valve. (I have a three valve set up mounted on the right post). When I go to retract, the cylinders keep lifting. The only way to retract is to switch the diverter valve to the forward position and pull the lever the same way as lifting.
So, what am I missing here. It appears the fluid is not returning back. Is my control spool valve mounted on the post malfunctioning? I did switch it with the bucket valve with no change. Is my diverter valve malfuntioning? Does my quadrant lever position affect the operation?

View attachment 440402View attachment 440403

never caught (what is in bold) yesterday...

double check the 3 spool valve assembly. the 4 hoses going to the FEL most likely OK, it is the 2 other lines coming from diverter valve and connecting to the 3 spool valve assembly that might be messed up. have seen a few spool valves were they have different ports for different things. and wondering if you hooked the hoses up to the wrong ports on the spool valve itself.

i never remember the letters that might be stamped on various ports. to distinguish what the port does. but there is a good chance there might be a power beyond port, return port, inlet port, and perhaps some other port. on the 3 spool valve assembly. besides the ports that go to the hydraulic cylinders.

 

[SIMassey]

Well, running the return cylinder operating valve hose directly to the transmission sump did nothing. Tried switching the hoses on the diverter valve. No change. Switching hoses was the same as switching the lever but I did it anyway just in case there was a check valve there. Tomorrow I'll start at the diverter valve and see what the flow looks like with the lever switched in each position. The three point works as it should with the diverter valve IAW the owners manual.

Not sure how long you have had this tractor and no offense but, do you do have the position lever in the constant pumping position ?

 

[CTWright]

Not sure how long you have had this tractor and no offense but, do you do have the position lever in the constant pumping position ?

Thanks for the reply
No offense taken... I have owned this tractor for a year. I removed the FEL about a month after getting it home to get better access to the engine. It was working when I took it off. I did get an owners manual with it that so far has accurately described the tractor. On page 16 it describes the double spool external hydraulic valve I have under my seat. It says " "In operating external cylinders both the hydra lever and the draft control must be raised fully to provide constant pumping" . They are set in that position.
Its acting like a check valve is sticking or stuck or possibly one of the valves is not opening all the way. I only have the lift arm cylinders hooked up at this point. I can power them up. But to power them down I have to switch the diverter valve for external hydraulics from back to the foward position. The other half of the double spool (For the 3 pt) is in the center position.

 

[SIMassey]

Thanks for the reply
No offense taken... I have owned this tractor for a year. I removed the FEL about a month after getting it home to get better access to the engine. It was working when I took it off. I did get an owners manual with it that so far has accurately described the tractor. On page 16 it describes the double spool external hydraulic valve I have under my seat. It says " "In operating external cylinders both the hydra lever and the draft control must be raised fully to provide constant pumping" . They are set in that position.
Its acting like a check valve is sticking or stuck or possibly one of the valves is not opening all the way. I only have the lift arm cylinders hooked up at this point. I can power them up. But to power them down I have to switch the diverter valve for external hydraulics from back to the foward position. The other half of the double spool (For the 3 pt) is in the center position.

The only other thing I can think of is that there should be two screws on the front of the valve close to each spool. These are called switch valves. The one closest to the valve you are using to power the loader valve should be lightly screwed in till it seats. These control whether you are using single or double acting cylinders. I'm not sure this will help but it's worth a look. Did you replace any fittings for the loader. You may have a metered fitting mistake. It has a very small office to reduce flow to slow down a small cylinder. Been there done that.

 

[CTWright]

The only other thing I can think of is that there should be two screws on the front of the valve close to each spool. These are called switch valves. The one closest to the valve you are using to power the loader valve should be lightly screwed in till it seats. These control whether you are using single or double acting cylinders. I'm not sure this will help but it's worth a look. Did you replace any fittings for the loader. You may have a metered fitting mistake. It has a very small office to reduce flow to slow down a small cylinder. Been there done that.

Awsome. Thanks for the direction to go in. I did check the diverter valve flow this PM. Its substantial in either direction. I also installed the bucket rams and hoses, bled them. And then tested them. They work fine. It appears lift arm ram circuit is the issue. Ran out of time for today so back on it tomorrow.

 

[CTWright]

Thanks to all who contributed. I learn something every time I post or read others posts here.

The problem was the center spool valve of the three mounted on the post. (And some lack of patience on my part) I switched the connections to the unused third valve and it started to work OK. Just need to get the air all out and replace leaky fittings now