Comparison Mini-Excavator Kubota/Takeuchi?

[reinhs]

Hi All,
I have a farm that needs all sorts of things dug and dirt moved. I've been agonizing over several used mini-excavators that fit the bill. I'm looking at the Kubota KX91-3 and KX121-3, and the Takeuchi TB235 and TB138FR. These are all great machines. I have support for both in my area. I have several pieces of Kubota gear but am not locked into the brand.

Question is... if they were all the same price, what's the best to buy? Are there any model gotchas that only experience can reveal? As far as I can tell the KX91 and KX121 are just as nice with the 121 being higher capacity. Any reason I'd want a 91 instead? The TB235 looks very similar in performance to the 138. I don't need the tight arm space performance of the 138 (neat trick though) but it has more bucket/arm digging power than the 235. Is there any reason to go with a 235 over a 138 if the price was the same?

How about the two brands? Say the KX121 beat the KX91 and the TB138 beat the TB235. What should I go with, the KX121 over the TB138 or vice versa?

Anybody who could contribute on any of these machines... I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure I'd love and be happy with any of them, but I can only pick one Ease of use? Maintenance? Upkeep? Any input is appreciated.
Many thanks,
Senter

 

[boggen]

used machines... can go all over the place. and you are to focus on new specs. go out and test drive each machine. then make a choice.

--tread on tracks/tires can make huge difference (can be rather pricey to replace)
--how leaky is the machine? older used machines more likely have leaks here and there,
--how good are the joints on the machines were everything connects to one another. a heavy used machine going to have a slot of slop in pins and connections.
--run machine for 30 minutes test driving machine, then raise up all hydrualics up into air and fully extended. and shut off machine, see if anything drops quickly.
--with machine on get something heavy in bucket and see if it drops after it warms up.
--check how well machine has been greased, is there actual grease on machine that is crummy? might be good sign it been greased and taken care of.

again spec's i could care less about, and more about how machine looks and runs.
=========
if you were buying new it would be a different story.

 

[reinhs]

Hi there Ryan,
That's great input for buying in general, and I appreciate it. Wish I'd run into you before I bought my first used Kubota tractor! Replaced a lot of hoses in that first year...

I totally get what you're saying and I've seen the massive overlap in prices on these machines depending on a lot of criteria. There are way to many variables when considering condition, current level of maintenance, hours on machine... That's what I was trying to get around when I said assume they were all the same price. They certainly won't be... I was trying to get a comparison of the base machines. I guess a better way of saying it would be "If buying new and money wasn't an issue" or "If someone gave you one of these as a gift..."

It's easy to say "well go the biggest and most powerful if money doesn't matter" but in reality that one might be the hardest machine to use or the most unreliable, or hardest to maintain... or... who knows.

So, thanks for the buying tips. I hadn't thought of some of those tests yet. I've learned a lot by owning tractors but this will be my first excavator I've bought and they are a bit of a different animal.
I appreciate the input,
Senter

 

[Happy Gilmore]

I've been on a similar quest for the last year, nothing yet

 

[art]

I've had people with multiple excavators as well as dozers tell me they don't need the 6 way blade on the 121 Kubota because of the dozers. After they got a 121 you can't sell them anything less! They demand it!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I sell Kubota, and Tak is the only one I feel is really in Kubota's league. Your looking at the top two in my opinion.

 

[reinhs]

Thanks Guys, that's good input. It feels goofy trying to scrutinize these four machines honestly, but like I said, there's only money to buy one of them so I'm looking to those with lots of hours in the actual seats. Many thanks and more input welcome,
Senter

 

[ErikVann]

My advice would be get the bigger machine from either brand. Whichever is in better shape. Check for play in the pins. Excessive play where the boom meets the chassis is a good indication that the machine has been used very roughly. High impact use puts alot of where on this joint and others. If you put the bucket on the ground and push down the front of the machine should respond and lift as you exert downward pressure if there is a lot of slop in that joint you will notice it as you try and lift the machine by putting downward pressure on the bucket.
I don't think you can go wrong with either Kubota or Tak so long as the machines are in good condition for their hours.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Any luck?

 

[Degolyerent]

I bought a used Takeuchi TB135 2 years ago, I was comparing stats on different machines and pound for pound the Takeuchi was superior. I have had great service with the TAk.
John

 

[Paystar]

Messick is right, those are two of the best mini-ex brands you can buy. Me, I prefer Kubota, but it would come down to which one you are most comfortable in and which dealer you prefer to work with.
And I know you can't beat Kubota's resale value.

 

[reinhs]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the input, and any more is appreciated. There's been good input on what to watch out for and how to buy. That's super important no matter what you do and it really makes you consider how you are buying. You can buy local or from a dealer and see the actual machine. It's tempting to broaden your search over 700 miles and watch potential deals pop up as the market widens but you can't see the actual machine. You can't test the systems. That deal you found might not really be a deal after all and you don't get to find out until the shipper shows up with it.

Right answer seems to be to maybe spend more but know exactly what you are getting. I've actually been impressed with what local dealers are able to do as far as machines and pricing if they are tied into a network or fleet coming off rental.

Anyway, as far as the machines... Really hard to pick unless you have one specific use/job. Universally I've heard Tak people talk very highly of Kubota and Kubota people talk very highly of Tak. That's really refreshing. So many times it's everything except the brand you bought sucks. These both seem like fantastic machines and people are universally happy with either.

Local dealer told me to stay away from the tight quarters, full rotation guys. For my fairly in the open use he said he thought I should entirely go conventional with something like a TB235/45/50 instead of something like the TB138FR. He said the 138FR would be less stable even though it was a bigger, heavier machine. Kubota would be a KX41/91/121 instead of a U25/35 type machine. Those tight quarters machines are awesome in tight quarters but if you don't need it, even though it doesn't show in the specs, there are downsides.

As far as size it's just a simple matter of scaling. A KX91 is pretty much exactly like a KX121 except for scale and muscle. Same with a TB235/240/250. It's not the case that one is poorly built or different. Just scale really. If you are digging dirt then any of these is awesome. If you are digging big stumps then any of these machines will struggle. Some will struggle quicker. Thick, hard, heavy clay? Same thing. A TB250 will struggle but not as quickly as a 235 would. There is a reason they make 20+ ton excavators still! A KX121 might seem like a super powerful monster when you've been digging with a shovel. It may seem like total overkill compared to a KX41... Until you try to dig in really nasty stuff or go after big rocks or stumps. A 20 Ton machine will just reach down and pick it out. A KX71 you will be picking and digging at a large stump for an hour or more. A KX121 might be picking and digging and scratching at it for 30 minutes.

So... No magic answer. I think honestly you have to trade size/capacity for how much you can afford and how many hours on on the machine. Do you get a 2500 hour KX121 or an 800 hour KX91, both well maintained at the same price? All depends on how you use it and what you use it for. Both are awesome. Both are well built.

I think honestly because of the name you might get a little more bang for the buck with a used Tak than a used Kubota. Said another way, the Kubota might hold value slightly better. They are both awesome and are limited by their capacity not by their build quality.

I have a great dealership for both. My decision is going to be hard... I'm leaning towards growing the piggy bank a little larger and going with a KX121 or a TB240/250. I just have so many diverse uses for the machine at the farm. As long as the machine isn't huge, more power/capacity doesn't hurt you.

Best I can tell, nobody has ever plucked out a big rock and said "******! That was too easy. I wish this machine was less powerful..." as long as the machine wasn't too physically big to be practical for the location. Which brand? I don't know... Everything on my farm is orange at the moment but if a great deal popped up through the local dealership for a TB240 I'd jump on it.

For reference, a TB235 is a hair more capable than a KX91. A KX121 goes pretty much blow for blow with a TB240. A KX040 is right there with them. A TB250 is kind of king of the hill amongst these guys. If you need to move it around yourself (location to location) you need to watch the weight. I think a KX121/TB250 on a trailer is pushing what you can do without a CDL and that's something to consider too...

Anyway, I'm a novice to mini-excavators but this is what I've learned over the past week. Not rocket science. They are all wonderful machines.
Senter

 

[RDrancher]

There's a ton of good info in this thread. One thing I'll add is that I'll take more machine weight over slightly more breakout force any day of the week. Even the smallest of excavators will easily pull themselves into a hole, but the heavier one will always put more force into the job before you have to back off. I've spent a fair amount of time on both the KX121 and KX040 and must say that the 6-1 blade is extremely useful for backfilling and slicking things up when running a tooth bucket. It also lets the operator set up for a dig at oddball slope angles while still digging over the blade. In those situations that translates into more useable breakout power.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Hi Guys, Thanks for the input, and any more is appreciated. There's been good input on what to watch out for and how to buy. That's super important no matter what you do and it really makes you consider how you are buying. You can buy local or from a dealer and see the actual machine. It's tempting to broaden your search over 700 miles and watch potential deals pop up as the market widens but you can't see the actual machine. You can't test the systems. That deal you found might not really be a deal after all and you don't get to find out until the shipper shows up with it. Right answer seems to be to maybe spend more but know exactly what you are getting. I've actually been impressed with what local dealers are able to do as far as machines and pricing if they are tied into a network or fleet coming off rental. Anyway, as far as the machines... Really hard to pick unless you have one specific use/job. Universally I've heard Tak people talk very highly of Kubota and Kubota people talk very highly of Tak. That's really refreshing. So many times it's everything except the brand you bought sucks. These both seem like fantastic machines and people are universally happy with either. Local dealer told me to stay away from the tight quarters, full rotation guys. For my fairly in the open use he said he thought I should entirely go conventional with something like a TB235/45/50 instead of something like the TB138FR. He said the 138FR would be less stable even though it was a bigger, heavier machine. Kubota would be a KX41/91/121 instead of a U25/35 type machine. Those tight quarters machines are awesome in tight quarters but if you don't need it, even though it doesn't show in the specs, there are downsides. As far as size it's just a simple matter of scaling. A KX91 is pretty much exactly like a KX121 except for scale and muscle. Same with a TB235/240/250. It's not the case that one is poorly built or different. Just scale really. If you are digging dirt then any of these is awesome. If you are digging big stumps then any of these machines will struggle. Some will struggle quicker. Thick, hard, heavy clay? Same thing. A TB250 will struggle but not as quickly as a 235 would. There is a reason they make 20+ ton excavators still! A KX121 might seem like a super powerful monster when you've been digging with a shovel. It may seem like total overkill compared to a KX41... Until you try to dig in really nasty stuff or go after big rocks or stumps. A 20 Ton machine will just reach down and pick it out. A KX71 you will be picking and digging at a large stump for an hour or more. A KX121 might be picking and digging and scratching at it for 30 minutes. So... No magic answer. I think honestly you have to trade size/capacity for how much you can afford and how many hours on on the machine. Do you get a 2500 hour KX121 or an 800 hour KX91, both well maintained at the same price? All depends on how you use it and what you use it for. Both are awesome. Both are well built. I think honestly because of the name you might get a little more bang for the buck with a used Tak than a used Kubota. Said another way, the Kubota might hold value slightly better. They are both awesome and are limited by their capacity not by their build quality. I have a great dealership for both. My decision is going to be hard... I'm leaning towards growing the piggy bank a little larger and going with a KX121 or a TB240/250. I just have so many diverse uses for the machine at the farm. As long as the machine isn't huge, more power/capacity doesn't hurt you. Best I can tell, nobody has ever plucked out a big rock and said "******! That was too easy. I wish this machine was less powerful..." as long as the machine wasn't too physically big to be practical for the location. Which brand? I don't know... Everything on my farm is orange at the moment but if a great deal popped up through the local dealership for a TB240 I'd jump on it. For reference, a TB235 is a hair more capable than a KX91. A KX121 goes pretty much blow for blow with a TB240. A KX040 is right there with them. A TB250 is kind of king of the hill amongst these guys. If you need to move it around yourself (location to location) you need to watch the weight. I think a KX121/TB250 on a trailer is pushing what you can do without a CDL and that's something to consider too... Anyway, I'm a novice to mini-excavators but this is what I've learned over the past week. Not rocket science. They are all wonderful machines. Senter

I think you've thought this through very well and your understanding will definitely get you into a machine that'll suit you. Nice perspective. I'm, looking at it the same as you, and coincidentally the same manufacturer wise as well.