Kubota, Kioti quotes

[MessickFarmEqu]

The second thing is that it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. You'd have to look at a Grand L to get similar features on a Kubota, and that would bump the price a fair amount. Then you're looking at a $25K tractor versus something in the range of $33-35K.

Exactly what features do you think are lacking?

 

[GManBart]

Exactly what features do you think are lacking?

A Kubota dealer who doesn't know what features the MX lacks compared to a NX?

As far as I know, the MX doesn't offer the following:

-Auto PTO setting.
-PTO cruise control.
-True ground speed cruise control for the HST.
-Anti-stall protection.
-Auto-throttle for the HST system.
-Turn assist control option.
-3pt control lever at the rear of the tractor.
-Mid-PTO option.

The Kioti also has about 4gpm more total pump flow, almost 900lbs more 3pt lift at 24", weighs 450lbs more, has one size larger tires in the 5510 and 6010 models), 2mph higher top speed, and 21% more FEL lift capacity (although to 3" lower height, so those numbers are actually closer than 21%).

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

A Kubota dealer who doesn't know what features the MX lacks compared to a NX?

Yea, those are Grand L features. I don't know Kioti well at all. I had no idea they had come that far with their transmission. The Kioti dealers around us don't do much with them. Its been years since I've even seen one. MX5200 and L4760 are approx the same price. You'd have some choice there if you want the heavier Cat 2 rear end, or the bells and whistles that come with a GL.

 

[TSO]

Yea, those are Grand L features. I don't know Kioti well at all. I had no idea they had come that far with their transmission. There are really no good dealers anywhere near us. Its been years since I've even seen one. MX5200 and L4760 are approx the same price. You'd have some choice there if you want the heavier Cat 2 rear end, or the bells and whistles that come with a GL.

I'm confused. Doesn't the L 4760 have more rear lift than the MX 5200? How does the MX have a heavier CAT 2 rear?

 

[paulfun9]

Yea, those are Grand L features. I don't know Kioti well at all. I had no idea they had come that far with their transmission. The Kioti dealers around us don't do much with them. Its been years since I've even seen one. MX5200 and L4760 are approx the same price. You'd have some choice there if you want the heavier Cat 2 rear end, or the bells and whistles that come with a GL.

I would think someone who sells tractors would keep tabs on their competition. They stole this customer right out from under you as I priced several machines at your dealership and went with Kioti as well as did a few of the locals around me. I will say that if I was to buy an other Kubota I would not hesitate to buy from you as I was treated very well by all your staff when I was there, all my questions were answered and my phone calls were returned promptly. Overall my experience was good and I do recommend you to anyone I talk to that is looking for a Kubota so not all is lost.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Yea, those are Grand L features. I don't know Kioti well at all. I had no idea they had come that far with their transmission. The Kioti dealers around us don't do much with them. Its been years since I've even seen one. MX5200 and L4760 are approx the same price. You'd have some choice there if you want the heavier Cat 2 rear end, or the bells and whistles that come with a GL.

I liked the cab layout better on the Kioti NX than everything else on the market. The removal of the dial in favor of the single button on the latest version of the Grand L was a drop dead turn off for me. Massey, Deere, and Kioti all use a dial to adjust the electric HST, just like Kubota once did. That said, the two-speed HST Kubota offers is better than what else is out there, but not enough to over-come what I felt were short-comings.

That said, I have no idea why Kubota isn't marketing the bejesus out of the auto hitch.

 

[coobie]

Yea, those are Grand L features. I don't know Kioti well at all. I had no idea they had come that far with their transmission. The Kioti dealers around us don't do much with them. Its been years since I've even seen one. MX5200 and L4760 are approx the same price. You'd have some choice there if you want the heavier Cat 2 rear end, or the bells and whistles that come with a GL.

I bet GM,Ford,Chrysler did not see the Toyota and Honda invasion coming back in the 1980,s.IMHO Kioti is up and coming in the tractor world.You say you don,t see very many of them in your neck of the woods,I bet you will seeing more in the near future.

 

[Grateful11]

First off I don't think there's anything wrong with Kioti. We have a dealer about 25-30 minutes away that's been there I believe since Kioti came to the US. We stopped in there when my son was looking for a new tractor this Spring. Told them what we were looking for and they gave us some ballpark figures and that's as far as it went, just too close in price to go with Kioti over the Kubota.

Now I know you're not looking at the Kubota Grand series but it's been brought up, there's no comparison to the MX to Grand L series, ride, noise(especially the gear whine of the transmission) and even solid feel, the MX just doesn't even come close to the Grand. If you can get a Kioti with HST and all the other features someone listed for a lot less than a Grand L or even the MX you should buy it. The seat on the MX sucks and so does all the tranny whine, it's a worker but it's a stripped down worker and that's basically what he was looking for and something without a DPF and that was a left over MX5100.

As far as Kioti being the up and coming tractor, I just don't see it. We just don't many people running Kioti tractors even with a close by dealer. Kubota is scaring the crap out of Deere, evident by their huge barrage of YouTube videos slamming Kubota, even one saying how Kubota is designed to fail. Our local JD dealer that's actually 20-some dealerships has gone so far as to buy 3 Kubota's just to take to their Demo Days and Open House's to park them beside Deere's to make a comparison and have their sale people slam it. Even had one guy tell us how you can't put a side arm long reach boom mower on a Kubota because the Kubota will break half, geez. At our local dealer they compared a 5055E with a cab to an MX5100 gear drive, pretty unfair comparison if you ask me. The funny thing was most of the folks there were commenting on why they were doing the comparison at all. A couple were even talking about Kubota's they owned and had never had any trouble out of them at all. I think the whole thing makes Deere look desperate. Deere makes good stuff just don't like their marketing these days. The 5065M here, you couldn't pry away from my wife and son, they recently test drove a JD 5085E wanting to get a bit more HP for certain tasks and after driving the 5085E said they wouldn't touch it no way, no how over the M series.

I know I've gone off on a tangent but I'm done now.

 

[s219]

First off I don't think there's anything wrong with Kioti. We have a dealer about 25-30 minutes away that's been there I believe since Kioti came to the US. We stopped in there when my son was looking for a new tractor this Spring. Told them what we were looking for and they gave us some ballpark figures and that's as far as it went, just too close in price to go with Kioti over the Kubota.

Now I know you're not looking at the Kubota Grand series but it's been brought up, there's no comparison to the MX to Grand L series, ride, noise(especially the gear whine of the transmission) and even solid feel, the MX just doesn't even come close to the Grand. If you can get a Kioti with HST and all the other features someone listed for a lot less than a Grand L or even the MX you should buy it. The seat on the MX sucks and so does all the tranny whine, it's a worker but it's a stripped down worker and that's basically what he was looking for and something without a DPF and that was a left over MX5100.

As far as Kioti being the up and coming tractor, I just don't see it. We just don't many people running Kioti tractors even with a close by dealer. Kubota is scaring the crap out of Deere, evident by their huge barrage of YouTube videos slamming Kubota, even one saying how Kubota is designed to fail. Our local JD dealer that's actually 20-some dealerships has gone so far as to buy 3 Kubota's just to take to their Demo Days and Open House's to park them beside Deere's to make a comparison and have their sale people slam it. Even had one guy tell us how you can't put a side arm long reach boom mower on a Kubota because the Kubota will break half, geez. At our local dealer they compared a 5055E with a cab to an MX5100 gear drive, pretty unfair comparison if you ask me. The funny thing was most of the folks there were commenting on why they were doing the comparison at all. A couple were even talking about Kubota's they owned and had never had any trouble out of them at all. I think the whole thing makes Deere look desperate. Deere makes good stuff just don't like their marketing these days. The 5065M here, you couldn't pry away from my wife and son, they recently test drove a JD 5085E wanting to get a bit more HP for certain tasks and after driving the 5085E said they wouldn't touch it no way, no how over the M series.

I know I've gone off on a tangent but I'm done now.

I agree with most of this -- in my area (I am surrounded by farms) it's Kubota and Deere, and if you look at market share of CUTs, they are #1 and #2, and the rest of the field is way back at #3 and up. By numbers, neither Kubota or Deere would be concerned about Kioti right now.

Where I disagree is that I do think Kioti is up and coming. How quick and how far remains to be seen. I would definitely consider a Kioti for a future purchase, though they'll have some big shoes to fill to compete with my nearby Deere and Kubota dealers.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I agree with most of this -- in my area (I am surrounded by farms) it's Kubota and Deere, and if you look at market share of CUTs, they are #1 and #2, and the rest of the field is way back at #3 and up. By numbers, neither Kubota or Deere would be concerned about Kioti right now.

Where I disagree is that I do think Kioti is up and coming. How quick and how far remains to be seen. I would definitely consider a Kioti for a future purchase, though they'll have some big shoes to fill to compete with my nearby Deere and Kubota dealers.

I was told that in the CUT space, by unit sales, Kioti had moved into #2 behind Kubota. Reading through the company 10K, clearly the company expected to do a land grab in market share projections.

To help frame the issue: A Deere 4066R was 20K more than the price I paid for my Kioti NX6010, the Kubota Grand L6060 was 12K more, and the Massey MF1758 was 6K more than what I paid for my Kioti NX6010.

Moreover, in my view, the cab layout of controls is better in the Kioti NX series than the other machines, a thing that was one of the two selling points with me (with noise being the second), so the Kioti was getting the nod before the price was factored in. FWIW, I began the purchasing process convinced I was going to buy a Massey MF1758 because they are so pretty.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Now I know you're not looking at the Kubota Grand series but it's been brought up, there's no comparison to the MX to Grand L series, ride, noise(especially the gear whine of the transmission) and even solid feel, the MX just doesn't even come close to the Grand. If you can get a Kioti with HST and all the other features someone listed for a lot less than a Grand L or even the MX you should buy it. The seat on the MX sucks and so does all the tranny whine, it's a worker but it's a stripped down worker and that's basically what he was looking for and something without a DPF and that was a left over MX5100.

Let's call this post what it is... dog pooh. I choose my MX 5100 over the Grand series because I wanted a work horse, not a tractor for my wife. I had an open check book to buy what I wanted, price was not an object. The MX was a lot more tractor and not all gunked up with options and frills to keep my hair looking nice. I didn't buy HST, either. I got the Man's gear drive, shuttle shift. BTW, my seat is fine, although not heated and cooled, or leather, or for a pampered behind...

 

[TSO]

Now I know you're not looking at the Kubota Grand series but it's been brought up, there's no comparison to the MX to Grand L series, ride, noise(especially the gear whine of the transmission) and even solid feel, the MX just doesn't even come close to the Grand. If you can get a Kioti with HST and all the other features someone listed for a lot less than a Grand L or even the MX you should buy it. The seat on the MX sucks and so does all the tranny whine, it's a worker but it's a stripped down worker and that's basically what he was looking for and something without a DPF and that was a left over MX5100.

Let's call this post what it is... dog pooh. I choose my MX 5100 over the Grand series because I wanted a work horse, not a tractor for my wife. I had an open check book to buy what I wanted, price was not an object. The MX was a lot more tractor and not all gunked up with options and frills to keep my hair looking nice. I didn't buy HST, either. I got the Man's gear drive, shuttle shift. BTW, my seat is fine, although not heated and cooled, or leather, or for a pampered behind...

Is there anything about your MX5100 that's stronger than an equivalent Grand L... Say an L5240?

 

[oldpilgrim]

I was told that in the CUT space, by unit sales, Kioti had moved into #2 behind Kubota.

All the reading I've done says Mahindra is way ahead of Kioti. Kioti is a distant 4th.

In New England, it seems there are many more Mahindra dealers than Kioti.

Kiotis are an excellent machine, though, and I see their sales growing in the future.

 

[GManBart]

Is there anything about your MX5100 that's stronger than an equivalent Grand L... Say an L5240?

You forgot who you're talking to. Remember, an MX5100 is faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and can leap tall buildings at a single bound!

 

[s219]

I was told that in the CUT space, by unit sales, Kioti had moved into #2 behind Kubota. Reading through the company 10K, clearly the company expected to do a land grab in market share projections.

To help frame the issue: A Deere 4066R was 20K more than the price I paid for my Kioti NX6010, the Kubota Grand L6060 was 12K more, and the Massey MF1758 was 6K more than what I paid for my Kioti NX6010.

Moreover, in my view, the cab layout of controls is better in the Kioti NX series than the other machines, a thing that was one of the two selling points with me (with noise being the second), so the Kioti was getting the nod before the price was factored in. FWIW, I began the purchasing process convinced I was going to buy a Massey MF1758 because they are so pretty.

I don't think they could have passed the whole "others" field and took #2 away from Deere yet -- that would be several orders of magnitude jump and I don't think they even have a big enough dealer network to move that many units. Someone here on TBN knew where to find sales data last year, so maybe they can dig them up again this year so we know the exact numbers. But basically last year in CUT sales magnitudes it was like XXX Kubota, XX Deere, and everyone else combined for X. Kioti was a subset of that X group.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I don't think they could have passed the whole "others" field and took #2 away from Deere yet -- that would be several orders of magnitude jump and I don't think they even have a big enough dealer network to move that many units. Someone here on TBN knew where to find sales data last year, so maybe they can dig them up again this year so we know the exact numbers. But basically last year in CUT sales magnitudes it was like XXX Kubota, XX Deere, and everyone else combined for X. Kioti was a subset of that X group.

We're talking about the NX, 4000, Grand L, MF1700 frame size. Given how the NX owner ranks have swelled here on tractorbynet, it sounds legitimate to me, but my info is hearsay from my Kioti dealer.

 

[paulfun9]

Now I know you're not looking at the Kubota Grand series but it's been brought up, there's no comparison to the MX to Grand L series, ride, noise(especially the gear whine of the transmission) and even solid feel, the MX just doesn't even come close to the Grand. If you can get a Kioti with HST and all the other features someone listed for a lot less than a Grand L or even the MX you should buy it. The seat on the MX sucks and so does all the tranny whine, it's a worker but it's a stripped down worker and that's basically what he was looking for and something without a DPF and that was a left over MX5100.

Let's call this post what it is... dog pooh. I choose my MX 5100 over the Grand series because I wanted a work horse, not a tractor for my wife. I had an open check book to buy what I wanted, price was not an object. The MX was a lot more tractor and not all gunked up with options and frills to keep my hair looking nice. I didn't buy HST, either. I got the Man's gear drive, shuttle shift. BTW, my seat is fine, although not heated and cooled, or leather, or for a pampered behind...

Now there is something I can understand! Aside from a few options like basic cruise control on a HST, extendable links, tilt steering, and a loader joystick in the right place for long hours I really don't want or need all the electro gadgets that they are stuffing into the NX and grand L machines. I must admit that I like the handle to work my 3 point from the rear also but all that electronic stuff is just nonsense and something else to have to troubleshoot and fix when the machine gets old no matter what brand it is!

All my other machines are gear/shuttle except for the JD the Kioti is replacing and it would have probably been a shuttle as well if I didn't have the need to keep one machine that the wife is comfortable running.

 

[Grandad4]

Reading through the company 10K, clearly the company expected to do a land grab in market share projections.

An EDGAR search reveals no SEC filings, such as Form 10K, for Daedong. Best I can figure, Daedong Industrial is listed on the Korean Exchange, and its financials are available online. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me... it's been many, many years since B school for me.

Don't know the CUT information, but Daedong's latest full year financials reported revenues of $570 million (US dollars). For comparison, Kubota's full year revenues were $ 14.7 billion (US dollars) and Deere reported sales of $37.8 billion (US dollars). Of course all those numbers are spread across the globe and among many different product lines so it's anybody's guess who is selling how much here in the USA, but dealer talk notwithstanding, I'm thinking the "more than 300" US Kioti dealers (per the Kioti website) aren't about to overtake Kubota's 1,000+ dealers anytime soon.

Kioti offers very good tractors, without doubt. We should all appreciate these outfits seeking to offer better equipment and better value to win customers. Success is not defined by driving competition out of the market, it's having robust competition that improves what's available. Cheers.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

An EDGAR search reveals no SEC filings, such as Form 10K, for Daedong. Best I can figure, Daedong Industrial is listed on the Korean Exchange, and its financials are available online. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me... it's been many, many years since B school for me.

Don't know the CUT information, but Daedong's latest full year financials reported revenues of $570 million (US dollars). For comparison, Kubota's full year revenues were $ 14.7 billion (US dollars) and Deere reported sales of $37.8 billion (US dollars). Of course all those numbers are spread across the globe and among many different product lines so it's anybody's guess who is selling how much here in the USA, but dealer talk notwithstanding, I'm thinking the "more than 300" US Kioti dealers (per the Kioti website) aren't about to overtake Kubota's 1,000+ dealers anytime soon.

Kioti offers very good tractors, without doubt. We should all appreciate these outfits seeking to offer better equipment and better value to win customers. Success is not defined by driving competition out of the market, it's having robust competition that improves what's available. Cheers.

Basically, Daedong d/b/a Kioti poured a pile of money and increased company debt from 2012-14 hoping to make a land grab in market share.

Object moved

Those reports are all in Korean. :confused3:

000490.KS Income Statement | Daedong Stock - Yahoo! Finance

Here is a snapshot of their home page, where among other things, they build Deere's 6R series for the Asian market.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Is there anything about your MX5100 that's stronger than an equivalent Grand L... Say an L5240?

You missed the point, I wanted a straight up tractor, not a trans-gender BMW. I looked real hard at the Grand L's, and kept eye balling the MX sitting next to them. I just didn't see the need for all the gizmo's and doo dads. Like I said earlier, I could have written a check for $45 grand, but I just really liked the MX better. Is it stronger?. I don't know, Is it prettier?, probably not, Is it a beast?, yes.