3.21

[Capricious]

Next year I plan to buy a new pickup, what used to be referred to as a "half ton." I would like to be able to tow a fully-loaded 7,000 lb trailer, which means the truck would need to be rated to tow about 8,000 lbs or more, since the advertised trailer towing load always assumes an empty truck, and my truck aint never empty.

I don't really care much about what brand, other than I want to avoid Ford since I don't want the aluminum body. Chevy has such gimmicky pricing. So I have been looking at Dodges (yea, I am aware of the Ram name and all, but they are Dodges as far as I am concerned.)

I noticed something; last year (2014) the dealers were all stocking 1500's with 3.55 axles ratios, which I assume was standard. The 2015's, however, all have 3.21's, which really cuts down on the towing capacity. A V6 Dodge with a 3.21 is rated for about 4,700 lbs or so, and if the truck has any kind of load that drops down to mid- to upper 3,000 lb range.

I swear I just checked dealer websites for 200 miles around here looking for a 2WD with a 3.55 ( or better yet, a 3.92) final drive ratio and I did not see one (admittedly, I did not look at vehicles priced over
$35,000.00)

Buying out of dealer stock usually get's one a larger discount, but for the lack of a $50.00 option it is looking like I will have to order.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I say order and get what you want. Don't forget about Toyota and Nissan. They are both serious contenders.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

One other thing to consider is Payload. Ram is at the bottom end and if you plan on carrying anything and towing at the same time this may be a roadblock.

This is why I drive Fords among other reasons but payload and towing they always seem to be class leaders.

Chris

 

[JimRB]

What is the fuel mileage difference between a v6 gas and a v8 gas? I see on the chart you lose about 3 mpg with the big engine. A friend has a v8 gas with the 8-speed auto and says he is getting better than 20 mpg. I thought he said more like mid 20's. You certainly get more towing capacity with the V8. Also note that a trailer that has 6,000 pounds stacked 2 feet tall may tow easier (less drag) than a box trailer or travel trailer that is 7 or more feet tall. My Cummins diesel feels a v-nose box trailer that probably only weighs 6,000 pounds. My mileage also drops a lot when I have 47-53 square bales of hay on it. It isn't the weight but the hay sticking up above the cab like a big brick.

Can you do a test tow?

 

[breadtrk]

Get a truck that can pull YOUR load up YOUR biggest hill at the speed you want. These days Brand wars are just games. Do your homework, test drive with your load attached on your roads. Pick the one you like. They are all very close pricewise, warrantywise, dependabilitywise and mileagewise.

Get real, unless you are hauling it 200 miles a day, every day, to use it for 4 to 6 hours, does it really matter if you are getting 18 or 16 MPG?

Insist on hauling your load on your roads or drive 20 miles to the next dealer. We ain't buying space shuttles despite what the dealers are trying to sell you.

 

[timswi]

Get a truck that can pull YOUR load up YOUR biggest hill at the speed you want. These days Brand wars are just games. Do your homework, test drive with your load attached on your roads. Pick the one you like. They are all very close pricewise, warrantywise, dependabilitywise and mileagewise.

Get real, unless you are hauling it 200 miles a day, every day, to use it for 4 to 6 hours, does it really matter if you are getting 18 or 16 MPG?

Insist on hauling your load on your roads or drive 20 miles to the next dealer. We ain't buying space shuttles despite what the dealers are trying to sell you.

Well stated...

 

[schmism]

does it really matter if you are getting 18 or 16 MPG?

while towing? perhaps not... but what about the other 99.9% of the time... i bet 11% difference still holds true. so runs some balpark numbers

15,000 miles a year, 20mpg = 750gal per year. or if you were driveing the more thirsty one 832.5 ... or 82 gals at (pick a price) $3 gal? ~$250 a year

 

[Monster5601]

I've have a RAM 1500, 5.7L Hemi, eight speed tranny, 3:21 axle ratio, and average 22 MPG. I tow my tractor with out any issues (18 foot trailer, B3030 with backhoe, about 7200 LBS). The eight speed transmission with the 3:21 axle ratio has more off-the-line grunt than the six speed transmission with 3:92 axle ratio. Obviously your driving environment and style will dictate the final results, for me, I have the best of both sides, reasonable MPG and good towing ability.

 

[Capricious]

One other thing to consider is Payload. Ram is at the bottom end and if you plan on carrying anything and towing at the same time this may be a roadblock.

This is why I drive Fords among other reasons but payload and towing they always seem to be class leaders.

Chris

I have a 2001 Ranger that I bought new, and have not been real impressed with it. However, I would not rule out a Ford (nor any other brand) other than I don't want to be part of the aluminum experiment, plus Ford has pushed up the prices on the things. I read recently where the average "transaction price" for Ford trucks was up $2,000.00 for 2015 vs. 2014, and in checking local dealers I am not seeing anything I would consider a bargain.

Although Nissan & Toyota are not going to get me to 7,000 lbs I am certainly considering Nissan, but to get the "big" engine you have to buy a package of other stuff I don't want and don't want to pay for. Toyota is the same way, but priced higher. When it comes to either Nissan or Toyota, the dealers have box-stock models that will tow 3,500 lbs, or fully loaded models that will tow 6,100 to 6,500 lbs. Nothing that will tow the big numbers, but without the "bells and whistles"

I have never had a GM product, but my parents had a couple way-back-when (1977 & 1986) which were disasters. Still, if the price was right and the truck was right I would drive a Chevy.

Mileage is not a big concern. I have a Toyota Corolla for an every-day-driver, so the truck will be parked except when I need to drive it.

It just seems to me that the dealers are stocking what the average person is buying, and the average person buying a pickup truck these days is more interested in electronic do-dads than with a truck's actual ability to do anything useful.

In other words, they are catering to "lifestyle" buyers, as I have seen it stated.

Yes, I will have to order, but that won't get me the deal that buying out of stock would.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have a 2001 Ranger that I bought new, and have not been real impressed with it. However, I would not rule out a Ford (nor any other brand) other than I don't want to be part of the aluminum experiment, plus Ford has pushed up the prices on the things. I read recently where the average "transaction price" for Ford trucks was up $2,000.00 for 2015 vs. 2014, and in checking local dealers I am not seeing anything I would consider a bargain. Although Nissan & Toyota are not going to get me to 7,000 lbs I am certainly considering Nissan, but to get the "big" engine you have to buy a package of other stuff I don't want and don't want to pay for. Toyota is the same way, but priced higher. When it comes to either Nissan or Toyota, the dealers have box-stock models that will tow 3,500 lbs, or fully loaded models that will tow 6,100 to 6,500 lbs. Nothing that will tow the big numbers, but without the "bells and whistles" I have never had a GM product, but my parents had a couple way-back-when (1977 & 1986) which were disasters. Still, if the price was right and the truck was right I would drive a Chevy. Mileage is not a big concern. I have a Toyota Corolla for an every-day-driver, so the truck will be parked except when I need to drive it. It just seems to me that the dealers are stocking what the average person is buying, and the average person buying a pickup truck these days is more interested in electronic do-dads than with a truck's actual ability to do anything useful. In other words, they are catering to "lifestyle" buyers, as I have seen it stated. Yes, I will have to order, but that won't get me the deal that buying out of stock would.

I would not base your opinion on a truck you bought 15 years ago. That goes for both your Ranger and your parents GM trucks.

I don't think your looking at 1/2 ton trucks with Toyota and Nissan. I had a 2008 Nissan Titan and it had a 9,500# tow rating and was a pure beast! It pulled my 9,700# boat about 30,000 miles over 8 or 9 states and my 18' car hauler with loads upto 7,500# about 10,000 miles over 5 states. I traded it last year with 100,000 miles and was dead reliable. Only unscheduled maintaince was a $4 tail light bulb. That's it other than 2 sets of tires, a set of brakes, and fluid flushes at 60,000 miles. It got 5,000 mile oil changes and that's it.

Toyota has Tundra trucks rated upto 10,000# or so.

Chris

 

[Capricious]

"..I don't think your looking at 1/2 ton trucks with Toyota and Nissan..."


Oh, certainly true. The prices on Tundra/Titan make Fords look cheap. Plus around here the dealers have next-to-no selection on those models. I mean, a dealer may have one or two, maybe three at the most, and always "loaded." No, if I am going to be limited to the 6000 lb towing range then I would consider a Frontier.

Concerning Rams, the 8-speed auto trans has been mentioned. What I am seeing is dealers that stock V8's, but in order to lower the price a bit, they get 6-speeds (which are about $1500.00 cheaper than the 8-speed) but then spend the money on "appearance group", "popular equipment group" and "convenience group" packages, which I don't want.

If they would at least get the $50.00 3.55 ratio I could live with the V8 & 6-speed, but the V8/ 6-speed / 3.21 combination is only slightly better than a Frontier with V6, which I can get a bit cheaper.

 

[kevinwak]

".. Concerning Rams, the 8-speed auto trans has been mentioned. What I am seeing is dealers that stock V8's, but in order to lower the price a bit, they get 6-speeds (which are about $1500.00 cheaper than the 8-speed) but then spend the money on "appearance group", "popular equipment group" and "convenience group" packages, which I don't want. If they would at least get the $50.00 3.55 ratio I could live with the V8 & 6-speed, but the V8/ 6-speed / 3.21 combination is only slightly better than a Frontier with V6, which I can get a bit cheaper.

I sure know what you mean here. I was at the local dodge dealer and test drove a Ram 3500 SLT with the cummins. The had about fifteen of the Hd Rams with cummins in stock, but not a single one with the Aisin transmission. I asked why. His answer, "everybody knows it's better, but nobody wants to spend $2000 on a power train option, they would rather have sunroofs, or blackout grills etc"

 

[s219]

When I was shopping last year, Rams fell off the list simply because all the crew cab models I saw on lots were duded up and cost $60K or more (and without exception, they all had the tiny bed which is worthless to me). They didn't have any equipped the way I wanted and I wasn't going to order one sight-unseen. I passed on Toyota because of the poor gas mileage. At the time Nissan hadn't introduced their new truck and their offerings were very stale. It came down to Ford and GM. I had previously been leaning to Fords, but the GM model refresh put them ahead in a few areas I cared about, and I ended up with a GMC as it was a little nicer equipped than Chevy at equivalent trim levels.

I wouldn't be concerned about the new 2015 F-150 at all -- the aluminum is a non-issue to me. To me it should be on the shopping list of anyone in the market for a 1/2-ton. The new Nissan looks like a winner too. I might still go with GMC if I had to shop all over again, a year later, but these other two would be on my short list.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I sure know what you mean here. I was at the local dodge dealer and test drove a Ram 3500 SLT with the cummins. The had about fifteen of the Hd Rams with cummins in stock, but not a single one with the Aisin transmission. I asked why. His answer, "everybody knows it's better, but nobody wants to spend $2000 on a power train option, they would rather have sunroofs, or blackout grills etc"

I wouldn't own a Dodge without a Aisin Transmission. Had a 2500 that ate transmissions like candy.

Chris

 

[Copperhead]

I couldn't justify diesel, and I really despised the 2013 Silverado 1500 I had with 3.42 and the 5.3L. And all the AFM cylinder shutdown stuff they have going on that, if it decides to act up, can be a real problem. I just finally decided to ditch the 1/2 ton idea and go with 3/4 ton. Prices are similar anyway. I got a 2015 2500HD with the 6.0L gas. That motor has an outstanding track record for durability and reliability and the 6L90 6 speed behind it has shift points much better to my liking than the 1500 did. I don't pull that often, but I needed a little more hauling capacity than the 1/2 ton pickups. And the 6.0L in this pickup is no slouch. It snapped a knot in the 6.4L 8 spd Ram 3/4 ton on the Ike Gauntlet pull test. It beat the Ram up the mountain by over a minute. And the Ram had 60 more HP and 50 more lb of torque! The Chevy 2500HD 6.0L took the Golden Hitch Award for the best pulling gas 3/4 ton. Yeah, I eat a little on mpg, but mine isn't that bad. I get around 16 mpg on road trips, empty, and overall 13 mpg for all miles including hauling, gravel roads, off road, highway, etc.

Selection Process: 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 6.0L Wins Gold Hitch Award [Video] - Truck News, Views and Real World Reviews

 

[kevinwak]

I wouldn't own a Dodge without a Aisin Transmission. Had a 2500 that ate transmissions like candy. Chris

exactly why is was frustrated and surprised. In our area it is some foolish status symbol to have a fully loaded diesel with a lift and custom rims. When I buy a truck it will be basic in the cab, the only option I need there is crew cab and Bluetooth phone capabilities. But power train wise I will by the stoutest offering of whatever truck I decide on. The decision hasn't even been close to being made, driving the ram was the first stop on a long list.

The trucks on my list are:
F150 ecoboost max tow max payload
Ram 3500 cummins and Aisin
Chevy 2500 or 3500 with the duramax
Ford F-350 diesel
Ford F 250 gas
Toyota Tundra with cummins diesel, if it ever is released.

 

[Monster5601]

I wouldn't own a Dodge without a Aisin Transmission. Had a 2500 that ate transmissions like candy.

Chris

What year, how many transmission, and what was the cause of failure for each?

 

[Diamondpilot]

What year, how many transmission, and what was the cause of failure for each?

2003 2500 Ram. 1st time would not shift into reverse. 2nd time it slipped boiling the tranny fluid out the dipstick tube. Traded it at 68,000 miles on a 2004 F250 with it slipping again.

Chris

 

[Kryton619]

Haha....saw the title 3.21 and I immediately thought of my old 100 gram bar.

 

[Fordman1981]

2003 2500 Ram. 1st time would not shift into reverse. 2nd time it slipped boiling the tranny fluid out the dipstick tube. Traded it at 68,000 miles on a 2004 F250 with it slipping again. Chris

We have a 2003 Ram 2500 on the farm that is still running strong not a single issue and not one spec of rust. It's spent its whole life in Iowa. It amazes me you have one truck that seems to have been a lemon and you write them off completely. I've had far more issues with many more fords than you did with your one ram.