Buying Advice Chinese yes or no.

/ Chinese yes or no. #21  
I do not own a Chinese tractor. I did own a Chinese ATV snowblower (GIO). No parts, no service no reliability. Soft bearings, soft bolts, soft roller chain, poor engine, weak clutch, Poor wiring. Every thing was shoddy. I sold it and bought a KUBOTA. MUCH HAPPIER! The Chinese blower broke down each time I tried to use it. I no longer will by any Chinese product including pet food, shrimp, or farmed fish..or anything canned.... and furniture made from Chinese elm is pretty bad too. Have had no luck with Chinese electronics, either.
Chinese steel is extremely weak, soft or very brittle. No I am not against a bargain...unless it isn't.

We have all had some bad luck with some Chinese products. And for the reasons you mentioned. BUT I have had very good luck with my Chinese Welder sold here by Everlast. Again this is a USA company specifying a product built in a Chinese manufacturing plant. I think that is the key. Are some Chinese made products very good product? Yes. Are some shoddy junk? Yes. I have a Chinese made vise sold by Harbor Freight that I am pretty sure is made from Jif peanut butter.:) But I have a large Harbor freight grinder that has served me well for over 20 years.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #22  
KOAU...I agree with your post.. I too have a 20 yr old grinder, still working. Ditto a steel cut-off saw, but my compound mitre saw is toast... and my 1/2 inch hammer drill..and all my Chinese drill bits. You gotta be careful with Chinese products.
 
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/ Chinese yes or no. #24  
I have limited experience...

A friend bought a chinese Dozer... price was right and it has a pto with 3 point... he likes everything about the tractor except working on it and getting parts.

My brother bought the kids a chinese made sand buggy... they were thrilled... problem is it works out to a couple hours working on it for every hour of fun... within the first two hours the transmission quit... ZERO help from the importer even with warranty... after teardown it was found to be a nut that had backed off... which is good.

Next the rim collapsed and again no warranty support... bought a new rim and mounted the tire.

Next the chain tensioner fell off and now the chain does not want to stay on the sprocket.

Also, the battery will not hold a charge for 24 hours... called the importer who said they are not very good.

Bought a made in Japan battery and it holds a charge over a week no problem.

I told him to avoid it and he said the features offered for the price was too good a deal to pass...
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #25  
Ultra runner: this exactly mirrors my experience: Equipment from china gets refusal from any repair shop in my area. They cite impossible to get repair parts, refusal to honour warranty claims, so thet will not allow them into their shop at any price.

I would not even give scrap prices for this Chinese machinery. Most reputable dealers will not sell any of it.
NO to China for anything. I have nothing Chinese that I was happy with....but it is dirt cheap. You don't even get what you pay for, even so. They poisoned my dog with Chinese beet pulp (contains Plant acids that caused kidney failure)
China makes knock off 13 Hp.Honda motors really cheap They do not last very long, bearings seals carbuerators, switches...its all just trouble. Stay far away from it all. Chinese pet food is toxic to dogs... and many brand name companies use it, rebrand it and sell it to unwise pet owners, because it is cheap.
China over uses insecticides becoz the chinese govt does not enforce compliance on producers.
 
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/ Chinese yes or no. #27  
It's amazing how many reputable us companies have sold out and changed from made in USA to China imports. If I'm going to be getting china goods I'm sure not going to pay premium price for name brand recognition.
I understand their theory requiring stringent quality control and spec but we all know that the at current time it's optimistic at best . Sure they may stand behind a warranty by sending you a replacement but it will still be cheap product.
It's our own fault, wanting cheep stuff. I like to think I have learned my lesson by now. But Quality products and the skills to make them are getting hard to find. I am continually disappointed in China product including the name brand stuff.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #29  
The warranty part has been the most frustrating... clearly defective parts the first day and no assistance.

My brother is nicer than I am... would have contested the charge immediately on the credit card, filed a complaint with product safety commision, the Better Business Bureau, the Licensing Board in the city where the importer is located and the Federal Trade Commision just on principal.

Maybe nice is not a good word... I should say optimistic because when he contacted the company they apologized and said the Christmas rush was overwhelming and then parts were in short supply and when it finally came down to it they denied the claim and of course the credit card charge had already been paid.

It does have a Honda clone motor and so far the motor sounds good and is very smooth...

I generally help with all things mechanical... the exception was this buggy and I am glad I did because not looking for a lifetime project.

The only good thing I have to say is his kids are learning first hand how to makes repairs, how things work and what a warranty is and is not...
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #30  
If I'm going to be getting china goods I'm sure not going to pay premium price for name brand recognition.
I understand their theory requiring stringent quality control and spec but we all know that the at current time it's optimistic at best .

One of the greatest success stories for overseas mass production has been Apple/Foxconn manufacturing the iPhones and iPads in Shenzhen, China. When you consider the failure rate they see for the number of phones they sell (almost 60 million a quarter!) you have to respect the manufacturing and quality controls they must have in place all the way up their supply chain. Working conditions for the employees is a different matter...

I work for a US-based company that sells a huge variety of products in about a hundred countries. China is one of our biggest markets and Chinese regulations require that much of what you sell there is produced in China. We have a number of approaches to achieve this. Sometimes we do a lot of the pre-production in the US and ship the "unfinished goods" to China where they finish it up. We have built a couple of manufacturing facilities in China and produce a lot of product there ourselves. But since we don't have the capacity to make everything we want to sell, we will also use contract manufacturers to make simpler products (that we've designed) or buy products from third-party manufacturers in China (that they've designed).

Each of those options comes with its own quality challenges. Obviously, making everything ourselves in our US plants is the easiest way to keep an eye on product quality. When we open a new plant overseas, it can take a little time to build in a "culture of quality," but in the end it's our company and we're able to dictate the standard.

It's harder when we use contract manufacturers. There is a lot of competition for cheap production in that part of the world. So when we want someone to produce a product for us, it's very important that we audit them carefully (this means questionnaires, reviewing their operating procedures, and sending teams to watch them make stuff). When they're making our product to our specifications, we know the product well because of our development process. When it's a total buyout and they did all the development, you are always worried that they aren't sharing robustness or stability information that might have dissuaded you from giving them the contract.

The difference between a good company and a bad company is that a good company will look for contract manufacturers they are confident can consistently produce a high-quality product. Bad companies will outsource to the lowest bidder knowing they can't possibly pay for good equipment or maintain the necessary controls to ensure high-quality but hoping that the product they get at the end will be "good enough."
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #31  
This is not a particularly Chinese problem - US companies do it too.

Many years ago I was offered a Chief Engineer's position with Tidewater Marine aboard their oil supply vessels. I accepted and then went to Singapore to join the vessel. I signed the usual contract and assumed wrongly, I might add, that the salary agreed on would be paid.
Was I ever wrong as I was to find out later. When the first pay advice was sent to me I immediately noticed the wrong daily pay rate. When I queeried it I was told when I return the next time I would get the proper rate - WTF.
Shortly after that I developed dizzy spells and got sent home on medical leave at their cost.
The difference between the daily pay rates was not a lot, but the fact that they deliberately misled me was enough for me to high tail it out of there. When a company is as dishonest as that (US company) it is time to part ways permanently.
Just my two cents regarding ethics.
Cheers
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #32  
Apple would have to be different... their name is on the product and I can show up at the corporate headquarters in Cupertino if there is a problem...

Made in China sand buggy shows what happens when there is no US responsible party...

As for Japanese vehicles of the 60's they had two things going for them... they were economical in price and maintenance and garnered respect for durability... not to say they did not have problems like rusting out before they wore out in snow country.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #33  
I just have to criticize the title of this thread WITHOUT READING THE POSTS!

Every time I read the title I think mmmmh, chinese sounds good, but to much MSG.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #34  
Last year I bought a 60 HP Mercury 4 stroke outboard. The crate it came in said made in China. Unpacked it and motor also said made in China. Wasn't too happy but it looks like Mercury builds all their 4 strokes there now. No complaints with the motor, it's as good as my 2 stroke Mercury's that came from Wis. Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #35  
Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.

I have yet to see quality in the so call Chinese tractors.. Some may be better than others, but the quality isn't close to the major brands.. Maybe in time, but not this time..

I have a 30+ yr old yanmar tractor that I have beat to death for the past 7 yrs. with only changing the oil, the filters and some grease.. No way a Chinese tractor (from the problems I've read in the Chinese section) would have held up without some major repairs..

There use to be a guy here Rob3RR ?? that had to rebuild his fairly new foton ? after only a few hrs. I believe he also had to replace some stripped gears in the front end
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #36  
FWIW, I recently had a Chinese tractor importer here actively discourage me from buying one from him. Official line was he doesn't stock parts, but unofficially he admitted they aren't up to much more than weekender usage.

Bullet dodged.

Now onto investigating the simple Same and Deutz models because i know they at least have good service and parts support here.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #37  
If you buy from a company that builds to western standards, ASM, AISI, ASTM, ANSI, ASME, AWS, etc., then you have a good chance at buying quality, provided they are rigorous in their inspection of & enforcement of those quality requirements. Established eastern & western companies that source to China have some degree of oversight on what they will and will not accept from the factory, and that's part of what you pay for when you buy from an established make. When you buy direct from China, I'm really not sure what you get. There will be Chinese companies that figure out what the Japanese did after WWII - that they have a quality perception problem in western markets and the way to address that is to adopt western quality standards ... or equivalent eastern standards ... and be rigorous in their enforcement. A reputation for quality is like any other reputation - hard to establish and easy to lose.

It sounds like there are some Chinese brands that are already committed to this path to quality, and if I were in the market for a Chinese tractor I'd be reading everything I could about the different brands, here on TBN, and taking careful notes.

I think there is truth in the quality standards for chinese tractors that are operated under ISO quality control. My 1993 Rhino 554 was produced around the time Shanghai factory adopted the ISO 9001 standards and after working at 2 companies utilizing the same ISO standards I believe it does contribute to a better quality product.

i also am starting to think that once you get in the 50 hp and above sizes of chinese tractors there does seem to be less reports of problems. JMO and:2cents:


One other thing- ALL brands and manufacturers of chinese tractors get lumped into one forum.
That has to concentrate the problems somewhat. also being a member of CTOA I check every few weeks- and there aren't enough problems reported to make it worth reading any more often because there are so few posts.

oh and yes I still do like my chinese tractor

I have bought some disappointing chinese products also.
But, My Chinese tractor Is Not one of them...
 
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/ Chinese yes or no. #38  
Last year I bought a 60 HP Mercury 4 stroke outboard. The crate it came in said made in China. Unpacked it and motor also said made in China. Wasn't too happy but it looks like Mercury builds all their 4 strokes there now. No complaints with the motor, it's as good as my 2 stroke Mercury's that came from Wis. Chinese labor can make quality products when they use good components.

I think this kind of hits the point. "Made in China" means just that, assembled. (Very cheap labor) It does not mean they used Chinese parts. That is the biggest issue, use of cheap substandard parts that will not hold up over time.
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #39  
My friend, who is a muskie fisherman of note had a Merc 4 stroke 50 Hp. It failed because of a bad rod bearing very suddenly on a day two years ago. The failure was catastrophic to the crankshaft. Cost more to repair it than to replace it. He bought a replacement Evinrude, which cost more than a Merc. It has worked well. Made by Bombardier in Quebec.
He did not know that the Merc 4 stroke was made in china.
BRP makes good motors under the Evinrude name, in Canada.
I have had six Chinese 4 stroke motors which are Honda knockoff copies with interchangeable parts to the geniune Honda that are exact duplicatesi of the 9 to 13 Hp range. These motors are common on snowblowers etc. but their bearings, seals electrical parts etc are 100% Chinese made and assembled. They work well for about 100 hrs, then fall apart, leak, short corrode and generally fail in service, no matter how carefully maintained, Chinese Mfrs are in violation of many patents owned by bona fide patent holders, and these patent infringements are contrary to trade agreements, which the Chinese ignore. An anecdote I heard claimed that a whole shipload of these were seized and destroyed by the UK upon landing at a seaport in the UK by Honda legal action. Nevertheless these motors continue to be marketed in the USA under the Lifan name on the internet. They cost about 300 USD, whereas the real Honda motors sell at about a 1000 USD. with identical Honda model numbers. Our US import laws are being flouted by the Chinese with impunity, because China simply ignores the trade violations, treatie and internation patent law. (China does not recognize patents, apparently) Sony, and a few others actively exploits this and in consequence, Chinese made apparatus, under well known brand names is counterfeit.

The aircraft maintenance industry has recognized that nuts, bolts, critical components of airframes, is being jeopardized by the infiltration of counterfeit components bearing strength ratings, are not up to snuff. Grade 12 fasteners, for example are just short of Grade six fasteners. Many of thjses maintenance organizations now must recertify all replacement parts in critical area before they can be used, sine the counterfeit parts appear identical to the real items. In one truck fleet operastion with which I was mainrenance manager found that 100 % of the grade 12 fasteners were counterfeit. Our supplier was caslled in, did spec tests and scrapped 120,00 dollars worth of high-strength bolts that they had unwittingly supplied. That firm then scrapped every product held by its customers, and replaced them all. It almost bankrupted them, but they had no choice.

I left the industry before I ever learned how this scam had come about, so I do not know the explanation for how the counterfeit goods had been substituted into the wholesale supply system. My guess would be that one or more of the fastener mfrs were firms that had been bought out by Chinese-owned companies and then operated fraudulently thereafter, unbeknownst to the legitimate distributors.
One distributor, to my knowledge began destructive testing qualiiy control measures, thereafter on a batch basis, for all fasteners it sells.... and guarantees that all fasteners meet or exceeds strength ratings specified. In consequence, these fasteners have tripled in cost. A grade 12 bolt that had cost 11.00 now costs about 30.00.

Such is the effect of Chinese influence upon our US mfrg costs. Some bargain!

For legal reasons, I do not cite names, but buyers of high strength fasteners do know who can be trusted, and who cannot.
I do know that Bowden Fasteners ARE reliable, and quite pricey!
 
/ Chinese yes or no. #40  
I think this kind of hits the point. "Made in China" means just that, assembled. (Very cheap labor) It does not mean they used Chinese parts. That is the biggest issue, use of cheap substandard parts that will not hold up over time.

The problem with this is that sometimes it means assembled in China, and other times it means the parts were made their as well. Sure, there are big companies in China that make good products that are known to work well (Foxconn making Apple products for one), but there is a huge range in quality, and it's very hard, if not impossible, for the consumer to know which is which.
 

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