Weather forcing people to move?

[vtsnowedin]

Yeah, chase the "hi tech" manufacturing. Like every other state, and country. Manufacturing seems to be a carnival show these days, they locate where they get the best deal, paid for by taxpayers, then relocate when that well runs dry. And what do these manufacturing jobs pay? - as little as they can get away with.

Well you have two points there. First the fishing for the tax breaks and move on game. Very real. NY currently has a promotion where a new business gets ten years tax free. I don't see why all the existing businesses can't sue based on unequal protection under the law and win. And second people paying as little as they can for the labor to get a job done is a cornerstone of the capitalist system. You didn't know or understand this?

 

[TomSeller]

Where there used to be 300 ,1 through 12 they are now down to 186, PK through 12 ,but they still have a staff of 41 including 20 teachers and seven para educators. :

186 students with 41 employees is obscene. That is an employee for every 4.5 students. 41 employees with only 20 teachers is also obscene. That is more than 1 non-teaching employee for every teacher. I recall going to a Catholic grade school with 8 teachers, a principal, a janitor who drove the bus and ran the boiler room and I think 3 admin staff. Let's see, that is 13 employees and we had about 250 students. That is over 19 students per employee. Now I know times have changed but no so much that the ratio should go from 19 to 4.5.

Schools need to get with the program. Locally, 1/2 of our taxes go towards schools. Crazy.

 

[vtsnowedin]

186 students with 41 employees is obscene. That is an employee for every 4.5 students. 41 employees with only 20 teachers is also obscene. That is more than 1 non-teaching employee for every teacher. I recall going to a Catholic grade school with 8 teachers, a principal, a janitor who drove the bus and ran the boiler room and I think 3 admin staff. Let's see, that is 13 employees and we had about 250 students. That is over 19 students per employee. Now I know times have changed but no so much that the ratio should go from 19 to 4.5.

Schools need to get with the program. Locally, 1/2 of our taxes go towards schools. Crazy.

I totally agree with you but the problem is how to get down to just say twenty staff members. Federal and state regulations have been written with 1000 plus student schools in mind so just complying with the regulations eats up about seven staff members regardless of how many students walk through the door each morning.
And half your taxes go towards the schools? Count yourself lucky! My tax bill is three quarters school tax. And there is an income tax on top of that that is about a quarter of what you owe the feds.

 

[dave1949]

It is clear to see you have thought about this quite a bit. A nice sentiment but perhaps one weakness. What happens if the economy to the south down turns and the tourists no longer have the money to vacation in Maine?
Best to build in some resilience with forest products ,fishing and agriculture and perhaps some high tech manufacturing to put the eggs in as many baskets as possible.

Those things can be done too. The ocean fishery is in deep trouble though, so that is problematic. Local small-scale agriculture is making a very slow comeback. Maine is never going to be a mass cropland style production location, we just don't have that soils resource. Forest products are vulnerable to global competition and the trend to paperless. Wood pellets are doing well.

Any business sector is sensitive to slow downs, tourism included. One thing that cannot be done is to outsource the eye candy and atmosphere of a Maine lake to China or India. Seriously, that is a strength to have something unique to offer. Strengths should be built upon. Sometimes I get the feeling that building tourism is just not flashy/wheeler-dealer enough for some politicians.

If a high tech operation wants to locate in Maine I wouldn't discourage that, but I wouldn't give the store away to get them here either.

 

[vtsnowedin]

If a high tech operation wants to locate in Maine I wouldn't discourage that, but I wouldn't give the store away to get them here either.

I quite agree with that.

 

[TomSeller]

.
And half your taxes go towards the schools? Count yourself lucky! My tax bill is three quarters school tax.

3/4? Ouch! Holy moly!

 

[RoyJackson]

Now to get back to the topic a bit it's not the weather that is causing the loss of students but the lack of good jobs that the millennials want and need to pay back their college loans.

One daughter has moved to Atlanta for a job and another is applying for jobs in the DC area and the third may follow in a few years where the small school she currently teaches at closes or consolidates. At least we will have warm places to visit in the winter in a few years.

Good post...Vermont is not a business friendly state...school enrollment is declining and younger folks are leaving the state.

 

[Garandman]

If a high tech operation wants to locate in Maine I wouldn't discourage that, but I wouldn't give the store away to get them here either.

What store would that be? Until a few years ago ME had tax policies that were completely uncompetitive you had to be stupid to locate there. The problem is more strategy than desire.

On the bright side ME and VT are no longer #1 and 2 in total state tax burden. VT is still top 10. It seems all states have an insatiable demand for revenue.

Good post...Vermont is not a business friendly state...school enrollment is declining and younger folks are leaving the state.

Compared to CT now, VT is a party. But like ME there isn't an engine driving tech startups an manufacturing. MIT drives the MA tech economy: the politicians aren't smart or hard working enough to have stopped them yet. Dartmouth and WPI drive a lot of jobs. UMaine and UVM are in the game.

 

[Bird]

And half your taxes go towards the schools? Count yourself lucky! My tax bill is three quarters school tax.

Property taxes on our home are 60.62% to the schools, 30% to the city, and 9.48% to the county. But the only reason our school taxes are so LOW is that they were frozen 9 years ago (senior citizen homestead exemption).

 

[vtsnowedin]

Don't worry Vermont will do it's best to get ahead of New York and regain the lead. I don't know how accurate these tables are as tax laws vary so much between states it's hard to get apples to apples comparisons. Might be better to compare total state and local spending on a per capita basis and not worry about how they extracted the money from the tax payers.
Annual State-Local Tax Burden Ranking FY 2011 | Tax Foundation
On a per capita basis I get using a couple of sources New York at $15,038 VT at $11,875 Maine at $8862 and New Hampshire at $8203.
HotReport - State & Local Government Finance - Historical Data
List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia