fishheadbob
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Heat pumps
- Thread starter joemd11
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OldMcDonald
Platinum Member
Coyote machine, Thanks for that post. I have a lot of problems with US terminology. I now know that my 5 air conditioners are mini-splits. They cool better than they heat. The indoor part of the units is fixed at ceiling level.
I thought I used a lot electricity (14,000kWh in the last 12 months) but nowhere near as much as some of you. The house is totally uninsulated. It would be extremely difficult to do, being a conversion plus addition to an ancient olive mill, split levels, various non-domestic rooms and all stone, concrete and tiles, with part (the cellar and meat room) underground. Obviously we do not get as cold as almost all of the US (not much below freezing) and the nearest snow is 40 miles away. We rarely top 100 in the summer either, but I do irrigate 500 olive trees plus the kitchen and ornamental gardens and do not skimp on water. We also cook with electricity and have the usual freezer, fridge, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer, etc. We have a small wood-burning heater in one room.
I have thought of a ground source heat pump with pipes placed immediately below the floor (concrete and tile) of the living areas and then as much insulation underneath as we could manage. There is a full storey underneath the living areas. I am committed to other projects for another year and a half so it is a while off and I have not gone beyond just thinking about it. It might not work, but if I get past thinking I will come back here. Fortunately my son is a physicist with access to all sorts of people so that they can do all the calculations about the technical aspects before I do anything.
I thought I used a lot electricity (14,000kWh in the last 12 months) but nowhere near as much as some of you. The house is totally uninsulated. It would be extremely difficult to do, being a conversion plus addition to an ancient olive mill, split levels, various non-domestic rooms and all stone, concrete and tiles, with part (the cellar and meat room) underground. Obviously we do not get as cold as almost all of the US (not much below freezing) and the nearest snow is 40 miles away. We rarely top 100 in the summer either, but I do irrigate 500 olive trees plus the kitchen and ornamental gardens and do not skimp on water. We also cook with electricity and have the usual freezer, fridge, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer, etc. We have a small wood-burning heater in one room.
I have thought of a ground source heat pump with pipes placed immediately below the floor (concrete and tile) of the living areas and then as much insulation underneath as we could manage. There is a full storey underneath the living areas. I am committed to other projects for another year and a half so it is a while off and I have not gone beyond just thinking about it. It might not work, but if I get past thinking I will come back here. Fortunately my son is a physicist with access to all sorts of people so that they can do all the calculations about the technical aspects before I do anything.
Turbys_1700
Elite Member
20 years ago Duke Energy offered low financing for customers willing to switch their older homes to 100% electric. My 1450 sq. ft. brick rancher was built in 1953 and the insulation was zero in the basement and 3" rock wool in the ceiling. Minimal to say the least. When we converted to the heat pump bat insulation was put in the basement with additional insulation in the ceiling and walls. In looking at my power usage we average around 1900 KW hours per month here in NC. I just replaced my 19 year old heat pump last year with a new 15 Seer Goodman unit and got some of the windows replaced also.
I don't know how much energy will be saved with the newer unit but I can tell you that the windows make a huge difference. Before the conversion I was using around 700 gallons of oil per year for an older oil furnace in addition to utilizing a couple of large window units to cool the house. The heat pump and upgrades in essence saved me the cost of the 700 gallons of fuel oil per year. Needless to say I like the efficiency of my heat pump.
I don't know how much energy will be saved with the newer unit but I can tell you that the windows make a huge difference. Before the conversion I was using around 700 gallons of oil per year for an older oil furnace in addition to utilizing a couple of large window units to cool the house. The heat pump and upgrades in essence saved me the cost of the 700 gallons of fuel oil per year. Needless to say I like the efficiency of my heat pump.
Coyote machine
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OldMcDonald,
No problem. Terminology can get confusing, especially when there are lots of different types of 'heat pump' configurations available.
I tend to agree that some, if not most mini-splits seem to have an easier time delivering cooling than heat, especially when ambient temp is 0* to minus 10* or greater. What they seem to struggle with most is the defrost cycle; which is why, I was told, the dual head units are necessary to run more than one inside unit at below 0* temps. A single outdoor unit would have to be too big to do the job and would be less efficient than what SEER number the manufacturers are seeking for efficiency.
No problem. Terminology can get confusing, especially when there are lots of different types of 'heat pump' configurations available.
I tend to agree that some, if not most mini-splits seem to have an easier time delivering cooling than heat, especially when ambient temp is 0* to minus 10* or greater. What they seem to struggle with most is the defrost cycle; which is why, I was told, the dual head units are necessary to run more than one inside unit at below 0* temps. A single outdoor unit would have to be too big to do the job and would be less efficient than what SEER number the manufacturers are seeking for efficiency.
Country Geek
Gold Member
This kind of post requires PICTURES!
OldMcDonald
Platinum Member
First, my units (as is normal here) are all individual units with an outside and inside part.
I do not own a camera. Never have. The best I can suggest is that you go to my website and pick up the link to Google maps. You then can probably use the street view pictures that are taken from the rear of the house. They are taken from across the river and on the road that leads into the village of Chão da Vã. The river and the EN112 are my boundaries.
paulharvey
Veteran Member
I don't get paper bills from Clay electric co-op, but the guy said high was 48 kwh/day over last 6 months. His first comment was, why does your bill stay so consistent? He said January should be roughly double November's usage, but they where nearly the same. He also said I'm averaging 44 kwh/day for first 11 days of this cycle; even though we just had some brutal cold (below 20'F). I have just replaced my well pressure switch (I need to start a separate thread for advice on that).
He was very realistic, said you really can't upgrade your insulation, and the best thing is a metal roof, but that's $6000+, and not something you do to save money short term. His major point was possible hot water leaks under the house. I had no idea how much hot water costs; but he said up to $350/month from a "pee" stream.
Said the heat pump was drawing at what it should ?1000w/ton?
So this weekend, guess I'm getting under the house looking for leaks. My soil perks very well (we had 7" of rain in one day, and no standing water in the ditch 2 years ago) so leaks won't lead to wet spots visible from outside the home.
Back to air conditioning: I bought this 13 SEER used, 3 ton; replacing a old 4 ton, straight cool/heat strips. I did not wire in the auxiliary heat (seem to remember needing more wires in T-stat wire?). He said that if the auxiliary heat isn't hooked up, it causes problems with defrost...
Now way off from A/C: I have a 220v submerged pump. I had problems with pleasure switch about 2 years ago; one contact had gotten scorched when a suicidal bug got in it... so as an emergency repair I stuck a small piece of a beer can between that One contact. The other side worked fine... well; two years later I have finally gotten around to replacing that short term fix. With 1 leg of the 220v broken, no current should have flow... right? There is of coarse no neutral, only two hots...
LD1
Epic Contributor
That tells me your electric rates are pretty high. 48kwh/day is about 1440/month. Thats about what I am averaging right now and my bills are ~$150
1000w/per ton is about right for modern units.
Not sure what a metal roof will do for you. Unless its has to do with reflecting the sunlight more making it easier to cool?
1000w/per ton is about right for modern units.
Not sure what a metal roof will do for you. Unless its has to do with reflecting the sunlight more making it easier to cool?
paulharvey
Veteran Member
Yeah, the reflectivity, and also the 1-1/2" foam between nailers.
I need to look at the paper he gave me again to make sure of the usage; but he found it really odd to not have peaks and valleys in the monthly totals. I will say that about 6 months ago, I had a leaking shower mix valve that allowed hot water into the cold lines. No telling what that cost me over the several months. It's almost odd to hope to find something wrong, so I can fix it.
He did recommend "solar screens" which block 80% of the solar energy with a window screen. He said they cover nearly 100% of the material cost of it in rebates. If you have the screening tools, skills, ect; and do it your self, everything you save is gravy. He specifically said don't go crazy on windows, doors, or "professional" tinting; you'll never make your money back, even with rebates. It amazes me what people pay to have a window installed...
paulharvey
Veteran Member
Taking a look at it, high usage for last 6 months was 58 kwh/day, average was 55 kwh/day and to date this month is 48 kwh/day. Says actually real world wall insulation value is R-10.3; ceiling 16; floor 10.2 (based on U-factor).