A lost Asset in Auto Transmissions

[SandburRanch]

Until recently the automatic tranny was useful in conditions such as snow, ice, sand or mud and worked equally well in all of those conditions. To start from a dead stop under those conditions we were able to select 2 on the shift selector, ease down on the accelerator to begin forward motion by not spinning and losing traction and then shift to D etc. when ever we felt it to be correct.

Not so now, at least on my wife's car. I ask the dealer about this before purchase and his reply was to use the manual mode shift position. The dealer sales staff need to read the manual, and possibly better drive it, to learn how their product works. They have lost that feature.

Some may say, so what. I didn't even know that was possible. Those may not have ever had to walk a few miles in snow or mud or because of sand.

 

[3930dave]

On modern automatics, you are at the mercy of whatever the computer programmers wrote to control it.

Some of the older euro stuff (ex. volvos) had a Winter mode switch which enabled second gear starts. I think some of the Benzes by default allowed second gear starts - if you were easy on the gas most of the time, they would bypass 1st after your driving behaviour was learned by the Trans computer.

If I had the money for a new car, I'd be getting a manual, so I haven't played with the new automatics - there may be one out there that does what you want.

As a control loop, it would be easy to allow a second gear start on an electronically controlled auto, but perhaps these new 6+ speed automatics have been weight reduced to the point that manufacturers do not want to load second gear from a dead stop ?

Rgds, D.

 

[JESSE1]

Lots of vehicles, my pickup included, have Traction Control Systems that reduce power to the wheels if a slip is detected. It can be disabled if necessary. I wonder if this system works as well or better than starting in second gear?

 

[bcp]

On all automatics I've had or driven, back to the 1950's, the selector only selected the top gear.

On a 3 speed:

D allowed 1-2-3

2 allowed 1-2

L allowed 1

Never saw or heard of one that would let you start in a mid- gear.

Bruce

 

[SandburRanch]

Lots of vehicles, my pickup included, have Traction Control Systems that reduce power to the wheels if a slip is detected. It can be disabled if necessary. I wonder if this system works as well or better than starting in second gear?

It could possibly work much better if the vehicle was un-level side to side without a limited slip differential.

 

[Bird]

Way back in the 50s, some vehicles, such as my 1956 Mercury with automatic transmission, always started in the second gear (in D) unless you floored the accelerator to make it downshift to first, but even then it would shift to second at about 20 mph. Of course, I learned to get the best performance drag racing to start in "L" which locked it in the lowest (first) gear, accelerate to 40 mph, shift to D and immediately back to L. When you shifted to D, it would shift to the second gear, then immediately back to L before it could shift again and that would lock it in the second gear, then shift back to D at 80 mph to shift to the third gear.

Another kid got his Dad's 1957 Chevrolet to race me and I outran him, as I did every 1957 Chevy I ran. But when he found out how I was shifting gears, he wanted to run again and try shifting like that in the Chevy. Of course the Mercury sequence was P R N D L, so no problem shifting as I did but I think the Chevy was P N D L R, so he wound it up in L, shifted to D, then pulled the gear shift all the way down to R which momentarily locked the rear wheels until he knocked the gear shift lever back up.:laughing: I think that ended his racing days. He was just hoping he hadn't damaged daddy's car.

 

[puckgrinder85]

The common denominator there is your traction, get better tires. Most newer cars come with wide *** tires mounted on 18"+ rims, that's the problem.

 

[930ck]

On all automatics I've had or driven, back to the 1950's, the selector only selected the top gear.

On a 3 speed:

D allowed 1-2-3

2 allowed 1-2

L allowed 1

Never saw or heard of one that would let you start in a mid- gear.

Bruce

When I put my 95 Honda Accord auto in 2nd it starts out in second gear. Was thinking older Ford's were the same.

 

[oldnslo]

Lots of vehicles, my pickup included, have Traction Control Systems that reduce power to the wheels if a slip is detected. It can be disabled if necessary. I wonder if this system works as well or better than starting in second gear?

If your Traction control works like mine it applies the brake on the slipping wheel(s) and also cuts all power to drive train which means your stuck becase it won't allow wheel spin. Yes you can turn this off but you have to remember to do this before you stop moving or you are probably still stuck. I will take a good ole fashioned manual tranny any time for driving in slippery conditions.

Brother drive semis and the automatics are real problems on slippery roads. Down shift going up hills and cause spin-outs, can't start in higher gears, etc..

 

[Tig]

Lots of vehicles, my pickup included, have Traction Control Systems that reduce power to the wheels if a slip is detected. It can be disabled if necessary. I wonder if this system works as well or better than starting in second gear?

I first experienced traction control while helping my perpetually stuck neighbor. I had to disable it in order to move the vehicle. The system does not seem well suited to getting unstuck.

On gear selection, my Fords, GM, and Toyotas from 72 on up worked like this;
D allowed 1-2-3
2 allowed 2
L allowed 1
Just last summer I showed my nieces how to pull a jetski and trailer out of the lake on a ugly steep sandy launch using an auto Sunfire in 2nd gear. Based on the mess at this ramp I'd say this technique isn't as well know as I thought it was.

We just bought a Subaru. It seems to have a "slap stick" I'll have to test that out and see exactly how it behaves when shifted manually.

 

[SandburRanch]

I first experienced traction control while helping my perpetually stuck neighbor. I had to disable it in order to move the vehicle. The system does not seem well suited to getting unstuck.

On gear selection, my Fords, GM, and Toyotas from 72 on up worked like this;
D allowed 1-2-3
2 allowed 2
L allowed 1
Just last summer I showed my nieces how to pull a jetski and trailer out of the lake on a ugly steep sandy launch using an auto Sunfire in 2nd gear. Based on the mess at this ramp I'd say this technique isn't as well know as I thought it was.

We just bought a Subaru. It seems to have a "slap stick" I'll have to test that out and see exactly how it behaves when shifted manually.

Oh My, I had forgotten about the wet boat ramp shows. Really, we should have to pay to see some of those. Even the concrete with the drainage traction grooves cause unknowing people problems. I've seen tires smoke there and not go anywhere.

I ask a fellow having problems "may I"? and his reply was " h*** yes, while I cool down some ". Nice big truck, worlds of power and a great big boat on a steep wet ramp. Second gear, ease on the peddle increasing acceleration as momentum is gained and drive it to the top. Of course he wanted to know how and why. I told him ( the how ) was in the manual possibly in the driving in snow section and the why was all in the correct torque to the wheels at the correct time. His comment was very short " UNBELIEVABLE "

 

[Bird]

I've seen lots of funny sights at boat launching ramps, at least a couple of which resulted in the towing vehicle going into the water. But my first showroom new car was a 1962 Austin Healey Sprite (first year that wasn't a bug eyed model) and I had a local mechanic make and weld onto the frame a trailer hitch. I used to pull my Dad's 16' Texas Maid Fiesta boat with a 35 hp Evinrude outboard. I never had a problem at all, but when I got on a launching ramp to launch or retrieve the boat, I usually drew a crowd waiting to see if I could do it.

 

[MossRoad]

Until recently the automatic tranny was useful in conditions such as snow, ice, sand or mud and worked equally well in all of those conditions. To start from a dead stop under those conditions we were able to select 2 on the shift selector, ease down on the accelerator to begin forward motion by not spinning and losing traction and then shift to D etc. when ever we felt it to be correct.

Not so now, at least on my wife's car. I ask the dealer about this before purchase and his reply was to use the manual mode shift position. The dealer sales staff need to read the manual, and possibly better drive it, to learn how their product works. They have lost that feature.

Some may say, so what. I didn't even know that was possible. Those may not have ever had to walk a few miles in snow or mud or because of sand.

What kind of car is it?

 

[MossRoad]

Our 2013 Impala is the first car that I've owned that does not have the ability to select all of the gears from the stick. Its a 6 speed automatic. It has Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and L. Well, heck, L... there's 5 levels of L, (Dante had 9). So I'm looking around and on the left side of the steering wheel, behind the wheel, there's two paddles labeled Up and Down. When you put the stick in L, the dash display shows 1-6. By pulling the UP and DOWN paddles, you can select the lowest gear that you want the car to go into when you select L on the stick. I keep it set at 4 for normal driving in hilly regions, cause I want to be able to get some engine braking on downhill slopes. But I can't imagine what would happen if you had it set at 1, and pulled the stick into L going 65mph down the highway??!! I can hope that there is some sort of electronic override that will not allow you to put it in first gear at that speed. YIKES!

Anyhow, it has traction control, which works outstanding for starting out on ice and snow. And it has stability control, which I believed saved my daughter from a wreck last winter. She attempted to pass a semi in slippery conditions and she said when she got in the left lane, the wind from the semi blew her out of control, the car turned sideways, she freaked out, and she said the car somehow magically straightened itself out without her doing anything. Hmmm..... slow down kid!

 

[SSdoxie]

My 2011 Siverado 6 speed has D or M position. Put it in M - manual then push + or - button on the shift lever. It can be shifted to Manual on the move and will be in whatever gear transmission was at in Auto, then shift up or down with the +/-. From standstill whatever I toggle it to is the start gear.

Before the Siverado I had 08 Dodge Charger and 06 magnum before that, they both had the manual shift by putting it in D then moving shift lever sideways to shift up or down manually.

 

[Mace Canute]

Way, way back I used to have a 1970 Vega Hatchback with the 4 banger and a 2 speed tranny (NOT a Powerglide). It was an auto but you had to manually shift it. In the winter time with 2 bags (roughly 80 lbs) of sandblasting sand tucked up tight against the back of the "trunk" it rarely could spin the tires when I started off in high gear. It was great leaving from a stop.

 

[PoorPlowboy]

On all automatics I've had or driven, back to the 1950's, the selector only selected the top gear.

On a 3 speed:

D allowed 1-2-3

2 allowed 1-2

L allowed 1

Never saw or heard of one that would let you start in a mid- gear.

Bruce

+1 This is how all regular automatic transmissions operated. TH350, TH400, TF727, C4, C6, and virtually every other common automatic. The big change was the manual shifted electronically controlled automatics introduced in the past 10 years. Now you select D or M, and then select + or - to manually select a gear if you want to control anything.

 

[crazyal]

Last year I pissed off a lot of dealers because I wouldn't take their word for how great the "new" automatics are. They loved to say that they are the best of both worlds. An automatic when you don't want to deal with shifting and a manual when you do. Every vehicle I test drove I shifted into manual mode and tried to shift into the highest gear when going slowly and then into 1st when doing about 25 mph. None of them would do it. I didn't try starting out in second but I came to the conclusion the best they would let you do is shift up or down one gear while moving.

Traction control is useless on snow. It detects the slightest slip and clamps the brakes on trying to stop wheel spin. This usually results in no power to move at all. Then they make it next to impossible to turn it off stability control so even if you turn off the traction control it just takes turning the steering wheel slightly and you are right back to not being able to drive. My Toyota requires you to stop, shift into neutral or park, and then hold the button for 5 seconds. Just more dumbing down to cater to the worst drivers.

 

[MossRoad]

The traction control on out 2013 Impala is great! Its a lot less aggressive, yet more responsive than the TC on our 2000 Impala. To turn it off, all you have to do is push the button and its off.

 

[mrmikey]

It can be disabled if necessary. I wonder if this system works as well or better than starting in second gear?

Not for me, Ihave to disable it to get out of my driveway if it's the least bit slippery. the constant power going from full on to full off screws it up. If I can keep a constant slight wheel spin going up my driveway, i can get out.

My Ranger starts off in 2nd if that's where I place the selector....Mike