How many have concealed carry permit to carry a gun ?

[IslandTractor]

Just as a point of clarification: One does not have (choose your number) Amendment rights - such as 1st Amendment rights or 2nd Amendment rights. What you DO have are RIGHTS that are REITERATED by certain Amendments. They are in the Bill of Rights, not to be created or endowed - because they ALREADY exist and you ALREADY have them. The reiteration of certain of your rights is simply to make an official recognition by the government and to try and wall them off from tyrants. Of course, there will always be those among us with an ignorant propensity to restrict, regulate or deny those rights. Government, liberals, communists, marxists, Obamatrons and others do not have the ability to REMOVE your rights. They do have an ability to DENY your rights. This is called oppression, tyranny, a police state or a democrats utopia. Another point with which that leftists seem to struggle is this ... You do NOT NEED A REASON to exercise your rights. You DO NOT NEED a reason to own a firearm. You DO NOT NEED a reason to state a political opinion. You HAVE A RIGHT - a right that exists without your need to justify yourself to some overbearing dimwitted leftwing idiot.

You must have flunked history. Nobody in this country had the rights you refer to when we were governed by the King of England. There is a plaque in my town commemorating a citizen who was jailed for "speaking against the King's word". Where was his right to free speech when he needed it back in the mid 1600's? The freedom from slavery wasn't even in the Constitution/Bill if Rights 1.0 and the women didn't get the vote until version 3.0 or so.

Your naive ranting simply shows a lack of critical thinking skills and education. You must be getting your gibberish history from talk show hosts. Try reading a book.

 

[houstonscott]

You must have flunked history. Nobody in this country had the rights you refer to when we were governed by the King of England. There is a plaque in my town commemorating a citizen who was jailed for "speaking against the King's word". Where was his right to free speech when he needed it back in the mid 1600's? The freedom from slavery wasn't even in the Constitution/Bill if Rights 1.0 and the women didn't get the vote until version 3.0 or so. Your naive ranting simply shows a lack of critical thinking skills and education. You must be getting your gibberish history from talk show hosts. Try reading a book.

You clearly don't understand where your rights come from or the founding of the country you live in, Kiotikowboy is spot on correct! How did you get by the 7th grade. Laughing. HS

 

[Garandman]

Your naive ranting simply shows a lack of critical thinking skills and education. You must be getting your gibberish history from talk show hosts. Try reading a book.

So, derisive personal attacks don't violate forum rules here?

 

[IslandTractor]

You clearly don't understand where your rights come from or the founding of the country you live in, Kiotikowboy is spot on correct! How did you get by the 7th grade. Laughing. HS

So, both you and Kiotikowboy think colonists in 1650 had 1) freedom of speech, 2) freedom of religion, 3) freedom from search and seizure etc etc. And, I suppose blacks were all free men and women could vote in 1788 as those "freedoms" already existed? Malarky. Freedoms exist because they are written down in the law and the law is enforced. Kiotikowboy doesn't like enforcing gun laws he disagrees with so confabulated a bizarre and naive theory of "natural rights". Baloney. I'm not sure either of you got through the sixth grade introduction to American History much less seventh grade civics.

 

[IslandTractor]

So, derisive personal attacks don't violate forum rules here?

Did you point that out to Kiotikowboy too or are you being just a tad hypocritical here?

 

[KiotiKowboy]

IT, since "rights" come from your Creator - yes, they existed even under the rule of tyrants. As I pointed out, those rights can be denied - but they cannot be eliminated. It is a VERY DANGEROUS path to presume any government has the power of rights.

My apologies if you feel as though I have made a personal attack. Perhaps the truth of my remarks is just getting a little close to home?

 

[MossRoad]

Did you miss the election? It was last week.

My point was simply to counter the nutty idea that "you have to carry a gun to protect yourself ". Pretty much only gangbanger and a rare convenience store clerk gets shot in MA. We don't have many guns here and we don't get shot. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the correlation. Same as Canada and Europe.

I had a shotgun shoved in my face in a DQ parking lot when I was 16. I was able to talk my way out of it. I'm lucky to be alive. Had I been armed, two other people would have been dead, of that I'm sure. That was 1977.

Last year I was driving by the same DQ building (now a ghetto bodega) and there was a young man on a house porch across the street from it pointing a handgun at passing cars at 3:00pm in the afternoon. 2014. Not much has changed in that neighborhood in 37 years. I made note of the person and called 911 while I drove my daughter the heck out of there. Unfortunately, there is NO other way to get from point A to point B without going through that neighborhood.

Until you have deadly crime forced upon you, you don't understand what its like to not be able to defend yourself. Your first thought is "how am I going to get out of this alive" and your second thought is "D*** I wish I had my gun!"

 

[IslandTractor]

I had a shotgun shoved in my face in a DQ parking lot when I was 16. I was able to talk my way out of it. I'm lucky to be alive. Had I been armed, two other people would have been dead, of that I'm sure. That was 1977.

Last year I was driving by the same DQ building (now a ghetto bodega) and there was a young man on a house porch across the street from it pointing a handgun at passing cars at 3:00pm in the afternoon. 2014. Not much has changed in that neighborhood in 37 years. I made note of the person and called 911 while I drove my daughter the heck out of there. Unfortunately, there is NO other way to get from point A to point B without going through that neighborhood.

Until you have deadly crime forced upon you, you don't understand what its like to not be able to defend yourself. Your first thought is "how am I going to get out of this alive" and your second thought is "D*** I wish I had my gun!"

If you had a gun, do you think you would have survived? 16 year olds all think they can outdraw anyone and besides they are immortal. You didn't have a gun and lived to tell the tale.

You also did the right thing with your daughter in the car, who needs to be manly and make a point by starting a gun battle when your kid is in the back seat?

I am sure every single person who experienced what you described would be upset and wish they could intervene but good judgment says to escape first.

 

[MossRoad]

Sorry, I should have read more carefully. In any case, it isn't the average gun owner that worries me. It is the crowd who feel naked and weak without arms that concern me.

I understand your concerns. The first three people I met with concealed carry permits were complete loons with HUGE chips on their shoulders. They were the types to let you know they had permits and how they weren't going to take any crap from anyone. However, over the years, through shooting sports, law enforcement friends and relatives, coworkers, etc... I've concluded that by far, the vast majority of folks with concealed carry permits are normal, peace loving people that do not want to be unable to defend themselves and, more importantly, their loved ones, in a emergency. As I mentioned, my father had to use his twice to defend his family. I have my own means of security. My daughters both have black belts in Karate and since they've stared driving, I've shown them how to use the car as a weapon. Escape routes in traffic. Know you surroundings. Try not to let yourself get into a situation in the first place. Home defense. But sometimes, bad things just happen. You don't have to be a victim. And you shouldn't worry about harming someone that is planning to harm you.

 

[MossRoad]

I have no doubt gangbangers can travel. Still, at least in my state they seem to do the vast majority of their misdeeds in just a handful of zip codes. There hasn't been a gun crime in my community for decades other than a couple of domestic violence incidents where the male used his protective firearm against his wife.

And that is why you probably shouldn't be applying your circumstances to our circumstances. At least my circumstances. I live just outside of a **** hole and I work in downtown **** hole, Indiana. 40% vacant housing rate. Low income, low education, low expectations and low respect for the value of life. I begrudge no one (except those loons I mentioned) with a concealed carry permit that lives here.

I forgot to mention I had a friend that was executed repossessing a car here several years ago. Down on the knees, shot in the head executed. And my first girl friend's father was sent to prison for being a failed hit-man... he missed! He got out and was sent back for molesting boys at the YMCA, then got sent back again for illegal firearms violations. He's still there, I believe. That's the reality of living in a place like this. You meet all kinds of good and bad people and very few of us haven't been touched by illegal gun violence. I personally know no one that has a concealed carry permit that has committed a violent gun crime. Think about it.