instant dark helmet specs

[roadhunter]

have you noticed 'made in china' on craftsman tools? I have!

Did you know sensitive electronics like iphones and ipads are made in china.

just sayin..

as for difference in the tools.. .. I think I'd ask for scientific evidence on that as well.

sears wrench and hf wrench, both high polish, both lifetime warranty. both cost the same.. woops.. wrong... hf cost about 1/4.. though i bet they cost the same to make.. the engraved name on each of them probably takes the same amount of time to apply.

not arguing.. just sayin..

If I had high $ tools, i'd sure defend my purchases too.... so i completely understand.

I have no desire to get involved in this absolutely ridiculous discussion that has derailed the intent of the thread.

You are right. Made in China product are of the same quality as those manufactured elsewhere. The other products just make more profit for the companies who sell them as the Chinese no name products are of the same quality as established brands such as Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Snap On, Matco, Mac, Craftsman, Cornwell, Speedglas, and 3M. The owners of those brands of products simply believe they are better because they paid more even though they are not any better. Owners of those products will try to defend their purchases and justify the extra cost which is just wasted money as they could have gotten the same quality of product for a fraction of the cost. Welding helmets and tools are good examples of the brand name ripoff where people waste money on products made in the same Chinese factory with the same quality but pay more for one because of a different name. Suckers.

Did I get it all right? Good. Lets move on to something more constructive like protecting our eyes while welding.

You would make a good salesman for Harbor Freight. Just Sayin.

 

[rswyan]

I think I'm beginning to drown ... in straw men ...

:laughing:

 

[RandyBell]

Everyone likes to think that Snap-on ect are the best, they are good sometimes a higher tolerances, but if they are that much better why is it that they pitch a fit if you use a cheater on their ratchets? I have taken Craftsman Ratchets that were all skinned up and they handed me a new one no questions! For what you pay for in the difference in price you could buy a dozen others.
My son does the same stuff he swears by the Snap-on man, because he comes to the shop and takes payments is the only big difference I can find.

 

[dragoneggs]

I am a relative newbie to welding and hoods. And I will say I do business in China actually all of Asia (mainly exporting miscellaneous aircraft fasteners). I have been exposed to dirt floor shops to high tech robotic, so I have an 'appreciation' what the Chinese do/can do.

I have owned two helmets. I started with a HF $39 auto darkening but it didn't seem right. I felt that it wasn't either darkening enough and/or wasn't changing fast enough. But I really didn't know how to judge it because I had no reference other than trying to hark back 35 years to a college class and a few stints at my FIL's garage. After a couple weeks I returned it to HF (no hassle) and bought a Miller Classic also auto darkening for around $100 at my LWS and it is noticeably better... same as far as comfortable, but I didn't feel like my eyes were being damaged like before. Now I need to say that I am a big fan of HF in general and maybe it was a fact that mine was defective (something wasn't right).

I don't remember the specs on the HF but the Miller Classic auto-darkening has two sensors, 1/10,000sec, 5.03 sqin. viewing area, 8 -12 shade setting, variable sensitivity and delay, weighs 16oz, and a two year warranty.

I briefly looked at 'better' helmets, but it seemed to me that the higher priced helmets didn't really add much in features except for bigger glass viewing area. It makes sense the bigger the viewfinder (because of the electronics), would be a the main cost driver. A bigger viewing area would be a nice luxury but as a weekend hobbyist can't justify the $$$. Or the fancy colors... mine is matt black.

Anyways... after going back into my shop tonight, I did look on the underside of the Miller box for the first time and it read, 'Made in Korea' Okay whatever.... One thing that a good brand tends to do to stay a good brand is to manufacture/sell a quality product at a fair (value) price and the geographic origin does not necessarily dictate quality. Brand name companies spend R&D dollars that generally result in them being a leader in their market. Sure other companies can copy and make a very close copy for cheaper and that is capitalism. If they have brains and some capital resources they might even produce something better. Good for the Chinese to participate.

I know my point here is maybe off topic but I don't look at where it's made anymore to discern quality. I see high and low quality everywhere. That said, I like to buy American! Especially because the company I work at is American, and we happen to be a net exporter as well! :cool2:

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I'm not really a welder I just have some of the stuff cuz I live in the boonies. Looking at helmets, the specs are all over the place and in different formats. I'm not much of a math guy. There is a spec of 0.1ms on a 3M Speedglass v100, I've seen 1/20,000th of a second, and 1/25.000. Isn't 0.1ms 1/100th of a milisecond which is.... I think one one thousandth of a second. Now this seems like the smaller number than the first two. Another important question is how fast is fast enough to protect your eyes? I have a dink welder that puts out 125 amps wide open. Someone told me I should use 1/16" rod and stay with steel 1/4 inch thick or less.

So should I stay with 1/16" rod? I usually use 6011. What about that math? It also says you get one darknss setting shade 10. Is that an ok spec for my welding needs? Thanks for your time.

Ron

If you usually use 6011 rods, a 125 amp machine will run 3/32" easily and 1/8" 6011 pretty good.
Although for vertical down with 6011 I run the 1/8" rod at 125 amps so you're on the edge there.
For other positions I run them 85-100 amps.

Additionally, your machine would also run 3/32" rods of 6013 and 7014 quite nicely at 100 amps or so.

As far as clarity, fixed shade is the clearest for me, then my miller elite auto dark, then my cheaper lids.

I didn't really notice any difference until I got older and started wearing bifocals, now it's easy to tell which is clearer.

My 16 yr old son thinks they all work fine - but his eyes are young

Shade 10 is all the higher you'll need for your machine.
Shade 9 may be needed if you don't see well at low amps.
Going up or down in shades is all about comfort and visibility, they all protect from UV light.

 

[PILOON]

Adding a bit of fuel to the discussion;
As long as less than 50% of the consumer price is offshore the product can be rated as made USA. (offshore cost is $2.00 and retail is $20).
Shipping, taxes, packaging profit in US counts as US content.

My 'test' for instant welding mask is a flick of my BIC! If the spark from a lighter can cause my welding helmet to auto darken instantly then I figure I'm good to go.
I actually do this test every time I weld and have actually tossed one helmet because it failed that test. (problem is I no longer smoke so I need a dedicated lighter nearby. LOL)
When I experimented with that helmet I discovered that it had a small lithium battery that should have kept a charge but did not. Seems the charging circuit failed or never even existed. I now let my newer helmet sit where it can enjoy sunlight and it seems to keep a charge.

I agree that the inners or auto module may well be the same in cheapies as in 'top of the line' helmets with head gear and paint jobs being the main difference.
One major difference is el cheepo is molded poly while top line is a better quality such as fiberglass or poly carbonate.

 

[Big Barn]

Interesting thread. Good contributions from everyone.

Terry

 

[crazyal]

I have a HF auto helmet and for the money it's good. I would love a more expensive one as the tension nuts seam to loosen up when you raise and lower it, kind of annoying. But I have dropped that helmet too many times to justify buying a more expensive one. Since I always use a full face shield when grinding I just place it arms reach away. I suppose if I had a high dollar one I would be more careful but once I get started on a project I don't like stopping to retrieve something.

 

[Soundguy]

You would make a good salesman for Harbor Freight. Just Sayin.

I'm fine with letting the facts speak for themselves. Which is why I asked if anyone had any scientific evidence either way.

If someone slaps down an independent lab test on a part we discussed that shows real world difference.. I'm completely ok with that.

on the other hand. if it shows a 5$ tool can do what a 20$ tool does, but without the chrome, racing stripes and bragging rights.. I'm ok with that too.

you know.. those nascar endorsements cost money.. and who do you think pays that money? the end consumer... so every time you buy a tool that provides a nascar endorsement.. part of the money you just paid has nothing to do with tool quality.. and everything to do with advertisement and product placement.

It also pays for a nice looking box!

 

[roadhunter]

I'm fine with letting the facts speak for themselves. Which is why I asked if anyone had any scientific evidence either way.

If someone slaps down an independent lab test on a part we discussed that shows real world difference.. I'm completely ok with that.

on the other hand. if it shows a 5$ tool can do what a 20$ tool does, but without the chrome, racing stripes and bragging rights.. I'm ok with that too.

you know.. those nascar endorsements cost money.. and who do you think pays that money? the end consumer... so every time you buy a tool that provides a nascar endorsement.. part of the money you just paid has nothing to do with tool quality.. and everything to do with advertisement and product placement.

It also pays for a nice looking box!

What facts are you referring to?

I agree. If you have a test or some actual documentation that the $35 HF helmet protect your eyes as good as more expensive models from Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc. then you will have a great point.

For me I won't risk my only 2 eyes in an effort to save $100. Way too much risk for way to little reward IMO. But if you choose to use a $35 HF helmet feel free to let us know how well it works for you. Sounds like a few other members like using the HF helmets as well.

 

[Soundguy]

What facts are you referring to?.

specifically the ones I called out. IE. if anyone had the facts, I'd love to read them. for all the models. cheap and spendy.

I agree. If you have a test or some actual documentation that the $35 HF helmet protect your eyes as good as more expensive models from Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc. then you will have a great point.

. But if you choose to use a $35 HF helmet feel free to let us know how well it works for you. Sounds like a few other members like using the HF helmets as well.

have been using a HF one for years. wore one band out and now just starting on my 2nd one.

 

[roadhunter]

specifically the ones I called out. IE. if anyone had the facts, I'd love to read them. for all the models. cheap and spendy.

I agree. If you have a test or some actual documentation that the $35 HF helmet protect your eyes as good as more expensive models from Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc. then you will have a great point.



have been using a HF one for years. wore one band out and now just starting on my 2nd one.

The burden of proof lies with the product that costs 1/10 as much yet claims the same performance as the name brand models. It is already established that the more expensive name brand models protect your eyes. That is why the more expensive name brand units are used by most every professional welder.

I look forward to seeing real information and facts that confirm the HF units protect your eyes as good as the more expensive name brand units.

 

[roadhunter]

From another site.

We always get what we pay for, guys. Harbor Freight helmets don't pass the most recent ANSI Z87.1 safety standard from 2010 (only 1997 or 2003 version). Which means that switching speed of 1/25,000 only happens if you're baking in the sun at 130 degrees F. Most of us do welding in temps from 50 to 90 degrees. The colder the air, the slower the lens switching speed ... thats the nature of liquid crystal in the auto-darkening lens. The 1/25,000 rating is somewhat false advertising. And your eyes will feel very irritating after welding all day.

That TexasPride hood you are looking at does meet the 2010 ANSI requirement. We only get one pair of eyes. Are they worth an additional $70?

 

[Soundguy]

Did they only test the new helmets or also give specs for older units?

I have my eyes checked each yr for glasses any way, even that neat camera that looks at the back of the eye. I specifically ask my eye dr about weld spark/arc damage. So far nada, but then I'm a once a week welder, not an 8hr a day guy, and I realize that makes a difference. Usually my largest welding projects have only taken a few hours of on and off welding. Ie, a 4 hr project, might be 2 hours of chop saw and measuring, 20 mins torching, hour of welding, and then some assy time. My last bumper and tops topper project went like that, real torch and welding tin only about 25-33% of project time...

Good to see data.

 

[roadhunter]

Further confirmation. Here is a link to one of the HF auto darkening helmets. Go to the user manual and look on the safety page. I believe it is page 5. Clearly states the 2003 ANSI standard not the 2010 standard. No we have actual facts from a laboratory that confirm the HF helmet does not meet the most current safety standards for welding helmet and the HF units dont' protect your eyes like the name brand units do. I guess you get what you pay for but most of us already knew that.

Welding Helmet - Save on this Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet

Here is a link to the cheapest auto darkening helmet that Miller sells. Notice how it meets the 2010 ANSI standard and has a list price below the HF unit that only meets the 2003 standard. Much better value IMO.

Myth busted. If you want a cheap helmet make sure it meets the 2010 standard for safety. In the end even on sale the HF unit is barely cheaper than the Miller so I dont' see any good reason to risk your vision buying a HF helmet when the established brands will sell you a helmet that meets currents safety standards for a few bucks more. No reason to risk your vision over $20 but to each their own.

 

[Soundguy]

one thing though... as of 2003 .. it met the standards.. the standards changed.. that means anyone welding with one is doing so with the same protection that ansi said we needed up until 2009 .. correct?

Also.. did it address the uv and ir protection or just the darkening time? the UV/IR protection is the real crux of the matter. if it is not meeting UV/IR protection.. there's the real eye damage. The shade speed will be an eye strain and temporary issue.. the uv is the killer issue for permanent damage.

I didn't see your miller link?

 

[skylarkguy]

Here is a link to the cheapest auto darkening helmet that Miller sells. Notice how it meets the 2010 ANSI standard and has a list price below the HF unit that only meets the 2003 standard. Much better value IMO.

No link included

 

[roadhunter]

Yea this site is not working properly for some reason on cut and paste items. I tried adding it twice but did not work. Feel free to look up the specs for yourself at Miller - Welding Equipment - MIG/TIG/Stick Welders & Plasma Cutting


Miller - Welding Helmets & Welder Safety Equipment and Clothing - Classic Series
Look for this ANSI Z87.1+(2010) and CSA

 

[Soundguy]

Dang, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that hf ad helmet I bought a year ago looks exactly like that 85$iller, right down to the easy grip knobs and contour!

 

[ThomasH]

Further confirmation. Here is a link to one of the HF auto darkening helmets. Go to the user manual and look on the safety page. I believe it is page 5. Clearly states the 2003 ANSI standard not the 2010 standard. No we have actual facts from a laboratory that confirm the HF helmet does not meet the most current safety standards for welding helmet and the HF units dont' protect your eyes like the name brand units do. I guess you get what you pay for but most of us already knew that.

Welding Helmet - Save on this Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet

Here is a link to the cheapest auto darkening helmet that Miller sells. Notice how it meets the 2010 ANSI standard and has a list price below the HF unit that only meets the 2003 standard. Much better value IMO.

Myth busted. If you want a cheap helmet make sure it meets the 2010 standard for safety. In the end even on sale the HF unit is barely cheaper than the Miller so I dont' see any good reason to risk your vision buying a HF helmet when the established brands will sell you a helmet that meets currents safety standards for a few bucks more. No reason to risk your vision over $20 but to each their own.

So because they don't say the one from 2010, you assume that it means that they are not compliant with it? That is conjecture on your part, as my Miller helmet doesn't say that it meets it and it works fine. It's also 4 years old, so I guess you are saying that it's unsafe?