Lucky to be ALIVE!!!

[DarkBlack]

You don't have to be sure about the wrench shorting, the OP said it did; and how else would the starter be engaged, other than the solenoid being activated?
The OP said it bothers him to keep rehashing the details, so let's stop this unnecessary rewinding, OK people?

Spare me your convenient self-righteousness. I read the whole thread, including your earlier insensitive remarks.
I'm trying to figure out if there is a safety flaw in the tractor starter design, so that someone else may be alerted, and not face the same danger.
My remarks on starters being positive switched was meant for you. If you have some knowledge that these starters engage by shorting to ground, then please offer it up so we can all learn from you.

 

[Coyote machine]

Spare me your convenient self-righteousness. I read the whole thread, including your earlier insensitive remarks.
I'm trying to figure out if there is a safety flaw in the tractor starter design, so that someone else may be alerted, and not face the same danger.
My remarks on starters being positive switched was meant for you. If you have some knowledge that these starters engage by shorting to ground, then please offer it up so we can all learn from you.

Don't bother trying to engage me in your wild goose chase. There is no self righteousness coming from me. I'm glad you managed to read the entire thread, including my accurate remarks, which just because they're true doesn't make them insensitive. This has already been covered long ago; you're the one keeping the OP in rehash what happened mode. Starters have hot present at the solenoid, which when grounded by a wrench, or other means, will engage the starter Bendix resulting in the starter doing it's intended job: starting the engine by cranking over the flywheel...
This is an isolated incident, not a tractor wide flaw in design. ANY starter solenoid given a ground will start an engine, thats why the bolt on the solenoid is usually covered by a rubber boot to prevent what happened to the OP.
There is nothing more I can say to prove what took place; and you can make whatever remarks you want directed at me; it won't change a thing.

 

[DarkBlack]

Don't bother trying to engage me in your wild goose chase. There is no self righteousness coming from me. I'm glad you managed to read the entire thread, including my accurate remarks, which just because they're true doesn't make them insensitive. This has already been covered long ago; you're the one keeping the OP in rehash what happened mode. Starters have hot present at the solenoid, which when grounded by a wrench, or other means, will engage the starter Bendix resulting in the starter doing it's intended job: starting the engine by cranking over the flywheel...
This is an isolated incident, not a tractor wide flaw in design. ANY starter solenoid given a ground will start an engine, thats why the bolt on the solenoid is usually covered by a rubber boot to prevent what happened to the OP.

There is nothing more I can say to prove what took place; and you can make whatever remarks you want directed at me; it won't change a thing.

Now I totally understand why you are on so many people's ignore list.

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks CM. It may infact shorted to positive. Either way it shorted and engaged.

No problem. I'm just trying to shut down the endless/pointless speculation rehashing of the cause/result of this unfortunate situation. Glad to hear you're healing. Day at a time....

 

[Garycw]

Guys please, it's not worth arguing about. I just know the large stud on the soleniod shorted to something and engauged it. The moment it did, my foot was pinned and wrench fell to the floor of the barn. It stayed latched in somehow. That's a fact. It also ( soleniod ) stayed latched in after in neutral but not the starter.
Reading everyone's support, well wishes and advice is a great confort. Arguing is not. I look forward to reading the posts in this thread. I'm feeling helpless and ready to climb the walls with boredom. I'm counting the hours till I can go back to doctor at the uk hospital 80 miles away on the 21st, just to get out of the house. It's rained here the last 4-5 days and cold.

 

[Coyote machine]

Now I totally understand why you are on so many people's ignore list.

Why don't you put me on your ignore list. You have absolutely no idea who or how many put me on an ignore list; and even if you did it means nothing to me. I will not engage in pointless argument with you.
Listen to what the OP asks for; this is not your thread it's his. Duh!

 

[TomSeller]

Now I totally understand why you are on so many people's ignore list.

CM is not on my ignore list as he has very valuable and extensive knowledge. He calls a spade a spade, it is just the way he communicates. If Garycw thanked him, he can't be that insensitive.

 

[coobie]

Now I totally understand why you are on so many people's ignore list.

Have to tell ya CM is NOT on my ignore list,in fact he was VERY INSTRUMENTAL in helping me when I had a issue with my new Kioti tractor.Thanks again CM.

 

[Coyote machine]

No, No! Please ignore me.:laughing:
Thanks Tom, and Coobie for the support! You guys are smart and Tom is not real insensitive either.:shocked: ( But you do have to say where you're from, still!
Have a good one guys.


CM out

 

[bumpyrider]

Gary, guess I missed it on the threads (or it just didn't soak into my head). You back home? Glad to hear it, just can't get a decent prime rib in those places...

 

[milkman636]

Guys please, it's not worth arguing about. I just know the large stud on the soleniod shorted to something and engauged it. The moment it did, my foot was pinned and wrench fell to the floor of the barn. It stayed latched in somehow. That's a fact. It also ( soleniod ) stayed latched in after in neutral but not the starter.
Reading everyone's support, well wishes and advice is a great confort. Arguing is not. I look forward to reading the posts in this thread. I'm feeling helpless and ready to climb the walls with boredom. I'm counting the hours till I can go back to doctor at the uk hospital 80 miles away on the 21st, just to get out of the house. It's rained here the last 4-5 days and cold.

It does get hard to follow threads and keep up with the details when they become contentious. So besides being bored how are you doing? Are you getting around? Are you getting all the help you need? Do you have some good views you can look at from the house?

Here in Michigan it is a beautiful time of year, and it's hard for many of us to have the time to just stop and enjoy watching our surroundings. It is also the down times when we get to fully appreciate our loved ones that are willing to set themselves aside to help us out. And we are all pulling for you to have a quick recovery.

 

[TomSeller]

Thanks Tom, and Coobie for the support! You guys are smart and Tom is not real insensitive either.:shocked:

I'm getting all misty eyed.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm getting all misty eyed.

Again? You're an emotional girl!

 

[TomSeller]

Again? You're an emotional girl!

At your age you should have your eyes checked on a regular basis. But understand that it is hard for optometrists to differentiate between senility and poor eyesight. Thanks for the expert mechanical opinion on the OP's tractor. Have a nice day.

 

[Garycw]

I am getting around, just Theres nowhere to get around too. I'm at my 90 yo mothers house. She's in great health and better that any nurse or hospital I could ever be in. She's a great cook too and enough food here to feed a army. Steaks, fresh fruit, salad cereals, juices , spring water, everything in abundance. I just don't have an appetite. Not much to see, all the windows are pretty high except living room. Which is where I walk to and back. When she pulls the sheers back I can see the beautiful colors of the trees here in SW Ohio. My daughter came once and my sister comes every few days. My fiancé' did text and call me trying to get dvr at farm reviewed, but unsecesful, and now she has stopped responding to me. So I lay here eating or sleeping very little and worrying, stressed out a lot. Hope this doesn't get Tom teary eyed, but I'll admit it does me sometimes.
Better days are ahead for sure. I just hope how soon that is.
Thanks to everyone, you're the ones I can talk to right now and it helps more than you know. And no one is in my ignore list... More like a gold star list.
Thanks guys.

 

[skyhook]

Not trying to get into a debate here, so please,,don't take it that way,,
It's very sad that this happened, obviously, but why it did is also important for other's.

CM and DB are actually both right in a sense,
the solenoid on the starter has two bolts with nuts (actually 3) if these two bolts are shorted together,
they will turn the starter, once you let go of these with your wrench, the starter will stop.
These two bolts are "positive charges" not negative in any way,
bridging these two bolt, will "bridge" a positive feed to the starter, BUT...
if you "accidentally" GROUND your wrench while doing this, (as in touching the starter casing),
you have now "shorted" out the solenoid, keeping a constant "bridge" between these two positive terminals, hence the continuous turning of the engine.
This is why it's very important when starting the starter in this manner, that the wrench does not ground or touch any ground source.

Also, neither CM or DB are on my ignore list,
I believe everyone here has valuable knowledge to share, whether positive or negative.

 

[TomSeller]

Not trying to get into a debate here, so please,,don't take it that way,,
It's very sad that this happened, obviously, but why it did is also important for other's.

CM and DB are actually both right in a sense,
the solenoid on the starter has two bolts with nuts (actually 3) if these two bolts are shorted together,
they will turn the starter, once you let go of these with your wrench, the starter will stop.
These two bolts are "positive charges" not negative in any way,
bridging these two bolt, will "bridge" a positive feed to the starter, BUT...
if you "accidentally" GROUND your wrench while doing this, (as in touching the starter casing),
you have now "shorted" out the solenoid, keeping a constant "bridge" between these two positive terminals, hence the continuous turning of the engine.
This is why it's very important when starting the starter in this manner, that the wrench does not ground or touch any ground source.

Also, neither CM or DB are on my ignore list,
I believe everyone here has valuable knowledge to share, whether positive or negative.

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around the lurching every 5 seconds. I did not catch at first that Garycw, apparently, shifted it into reverse rather than bouncing back off the fence in front. So that part I get now. But not the 5 second lurching.

OP account again (from other thread on subject):
"Forgot it was in gear. Thought I could snug the solenoid nut without touching anything else. It momentarily shorted and learched forward. Imeditly rolling into leg and pinning me. The wrench was dropped clear, but solenoid somehow started engaged? While using me as a speed bump, it repeatedly learched forward about every 5 seconds. First going over my bent left leg and finally onto both legs And hip. Seemed like I was pinned 2 minutes as it chomped away at me and pushed up against a 10' secured gate in middle of barn. Once cleared I pulled myself up by hands to knock out if gear. It inedible went into reverse for round two . I was able to quickly find neutral and call"

 

[skyhook]

I hear ya, here's my take on that,,
it may have been less than 5, who know's, also may have been in a higher gear,
making it advance slower.

 

[Coyote machine]

I took the OP's original description about the pushing against the 10' gate in the barn to mean that the tractor was held back from going any further forward, and since it still had the shorted solenoid engaged the tractor repeatedly attempted to move forward until the OP moved the shifter to reverse and then to neutral.
What I'd like to know is once it went into neutral what did the solenoid/starter do then? Was there more noise from either or did the solenoid cease to engage the starter? This answer would tell us a lot about what was going on throughout.

BTW Tom, 'material girl' is a reference to a pop song by Madonna; I was making an attempt at a joke about being misty eyed....

 

[Garycw]

The exact time frame under the stress and pain of this is a little hard to estimate. 5 sec was my best recollection of the lurching forward. It imedently went into this pinned to the ground gate. As the tractor pushed forward, the gate was trying to push the tractor back, and holding it back. The tractor was winning bit by bit. By the time it cleared me, the gate was almost flat in the ground. The weights it front of the tractor was hooked in between the rails of the gate. It was actually a 10' gate and a 4' gate chained together, with a large rebar going through brackets on 10' gate into a 3' pipe drove into the ground. This was to devide the barn to keep the horses & cows on the side with stalls. Other half was equipment storage & tack room etc.
I believe if the gate wasn't there it would have been a continual crank, started and ran through barn, down hill and into a 15' deep pond.
As soon as I got shifter into neutral, starter disengaged, but soleniod did not. It just went into a high pitch spinning whine until a hit it with a wrench again. I'm not sure if I'll ever know exactly how this happened , one theory in back of my mind, is that the tractor actually started at first short, and the gate would not let to get any rpm. Again Deisel is a new and unfamiliar bird to me.