Drum Mowers - logistical questions

[Daronspicher]

Hi, I have a Deere 820 moco, well worn but I have it working to a point, put on a bunch of new guards and an expensive uJoint in the power line.

I pull it with a JD 2020, 67hp theoretically, and I can probably get by with it if I don't make a move.

However, it really feels like I'm dragging the titanic around when I have that thing hooked up to my 2020.

I need to work on my linkage in my throttle on the 2020 since I can only get about 1800/1900 rpm out of it and it should be running proper pto speed at 2400 or so. The moco drags all the power I have out of that little tractor.

I have about 9 acres on a 10 acre property that I cut, has alfalfa right now.

I'm thinking about selling the moco and going to a drum mower, the 5 footers probably are my best pick.

If the drum mower needs 35hp, maybe my theoretical 67 would be enough.

What I can't quite wrap my mind around is the 3 point aspect of the drum mowers. When an attachment is behind the tractor, it is typically balanced and the 3 point hitch has weight on both sides, pushing down.

The drum mower appears as if it would have weight on one arm, and negative weight (pushing up) on the other arm. Is that right?

Do those drums run (rub) atop the ground, or do they typically hover as you mow?

i don't have a cab. Am I going to put a bullet through my head as soon as I go 10 feet and hit a gopher hole and a small rock comes off the blade? My ground is pretty good rock free, flat and about as perfect as you might want for mowing hay. Do I need a plexiglass shield built on that side of the tractor to not die?

Thanks for your feedback, I'm just starting my look at possibly moving over.

-Daron

 

[bjr]

I have SFI 2555 52" Drum mower (bought it two years ago) that I run without a cab. I have a JM354 Jinma tractor. I keep the curtain in place at all times. Maybe a few pieces of grass kinda fly around, but, nothing dangerous. I really like how easy it is to change out the blades. Yes the drum bottoms lay right on the ground. Adjust the top 3 pt. linage to keep the drums level with the ground. I did use some pipe ring spacers to get the blades cutting a little higher. The fellow at SFI walk me through the spacer ring installation. If you do go with a drum mower you won't be sorry. Oh yeah, keep the belts tight light the manual says. bjr

 

[SPYDERLK]

Hi, I have a Deere 820 moco, well worn but I have it working to a point, put on a bunch of new guards and an expensive uJoint in the power line.

I pull it with a JD 2020, 67hp theoretically, and I can probably get by with it if I don't make a move.

However, it really feels like I'm dragging the titanic around when I have that thing hooked up to my 2020.

I need to work on my linkage in my throttle on the 2020 since I can only get about 1800/1900 rpm out of it and it should be running proper pto speed at 2400 or so. The moco drags all the power I have out of that little tractor.

I have about 9 acres on a 10 acre property that I cut, has alfalfa right now.

I'm thinking about selling the moco and going to a drum mower, the 5 footers probably are my best pick.

If the drum mower needs 35hp, maybe my theoretical 67 would be enough.

What I can't quite wrap my mind around is the 3 point aspect of the drum mowers. When an attachment is behind the tractor, it is typically balanced and the 3 point hitch has weight on both sides, pushing down.

The drum mower appears as if it would have weight on one arm, and negative weight (pushing up) on the other arm. Is that right?

Do those drums run (rub) atop the ground, or do they typically hover as you mow?

i don't have a cab. Am I going to put a bullet through my head as soon as I go 10 feet and hit a gopher hole and a small rock comes off the blade? My ground is pretty good rock free, flat and about as perfect as you might want for mowing hay. Do I need a plexiglass shield built on that side of the tractor to not die?

Thanks for your feedback, I'm just starting my look at possibly moving over.

-Daron

All of your surmises are good as bjr said. ... I have a 65" CCM drum mower that I run with a Kub L3450. Lower and MUCH lighter than your tractor and about 1/2 the HP. -- Have hit several rocks. but no projectile issues. Yours would easily handle the largest model [75" cut]. There is a freewheeling dish on the bottom of each drum that the cutter rides on as you cut. They support the weight of the cutter as you mow and their non adjustable position pretty much fixes your cut height at about 1.5"
The drums spin very fast and these mowers will cut everything wet or dry and leave it in a single windrow even when you go 6 or 8 mph. They do not condition the hay tho, so its important that you tedder right after the field is cut. Its important to cut at full 540 PTO rpm so your tractor will need a little work there.
larry

 

[Tx Jim]

I think your 2020 should have enough power to run a 820 Mo-Co although it has 54 pto HP not 67 according to Tractordata.com. Is your 2020 gasoline or diesel?
.
John Deere 2020 Power:
Drawbar (tested): 45.90 hp [34.2 kW]
PTO (tested): 54.09 hp [40.3 kW]

 

[Daronspicher]

My 2020 is a gas engine.

I will have to look around and see if I am ok to cut Alfalfa at the 1.5 inches you mention is a fixed cut height. I was thinking when I read that, I was supposed to be leaving 3 or 4 inches so I don't kill it. Is anyone cutting alfalfa with a drum mower, does it turn out ok?

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful.

-Daron

 

[Daronspicher]

Another thing that was interesting as I watched some youtube videos of them. One guy was showing how easy it is to change the knives. A couple comments and a question.

First, his drums (upper and lower) seemed really beat up and he was still mowing just like it was no big deal. Do the drums get beat up a lot typically, and does that put them out of balance which makes the thing start to vibrate itself apart?

Are the knives for these things pretty standard? I see a lot of brands of these drum mowers out there, are the knives in some way standard amongst the different brands? Any brand that is really hard to get knives for?

What do the knives cost per knife, do you just get a 50 pack early on and live long and mow like crazy for years?

Thanks, -Daron

 

[bjr]

As far as Blades go I think A&I show those blades. MY SFI 2555 takes a A-cm120 blade. I've been buying 25 pack through A&I vendor that price with freight delivered right to the house was like $40. I've only used 12 of the 25 so far. bjr

 

[rankrank1]

I would only consider dumping the moco and switching to the drum mower if you also plan on mostly doing grassy hay in the future instead of the alfalfa. Having the conditioner will allow you to put up the best alfalfa possible which will be much more of a challenge in a humid Midwest type climate like IL without the conditioner if you go drum mower.

For your limited acreage that moco should work quite well. I run a Hesston 1120 mower conditioner (9' sickle cut machine with conditioning rollers) with a Farmall M (36 hp), Farmall h (26 hp), and even an ole John Deere model A 2 cylinder putt putt (35 hp) on rare occasions. Yes the moco is heavy and has a lot of tongue weight but if my lowly Farmall h can run it then your much more modern JD should work circles around any of my antique clunkers.

You need to fix the throttle problem regardless of which cutter choice you go with anyways. Either cutter type requires enough throttle to get the PTO shaft to 540 rpm so fix that throttle to at least get the PTO speed to that point at a minimum .

I would not mind having a drum mower for my situation but I do NOT do alfalfa either - mostly grassy hay. For just a few acres though I can not hardly justify buying a new drum mower and have yet to find a cheap drum mower. Plus I am not too sure how well my antiques and their add on 3 point hitches would do with a drum mower anyways. (would not be a problem on your tractor though since it has factory 3 point which is better than add on kits).

I do know that if I ever do run a drum mower (or disc mower) then I certainly will be rigging myself a Lexan grade shield of at least 1/4" to 3/8" thick to protect my head and spinal cord on any open station tractor. To many horror stories of guys having their cab windows broken out, but most are not too upset about the broken cab window as whatever broke that window was otherwise heading straight for their head.

 

[SPYDERLK]

My 2020 is a gas engine.

I will have to look around and see if I am ok to cut Alfalfa at the 1.5 inches you mention is a fixed cut height. I was thinking when I read that, I was supposed to be leaving 3 or 4 inches so I don't kill it. Is anyone cutting alfalfa with a drum mower, does it turn out ok?

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful.

-Daron

Check with DaveOmak on this thread.== He does alfalfa.

attachments/215379-ccm-drum-mower-pros-cons.html?highlight=#post3769774http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/215379-ccm-drum-mower-pros-cons.html?highlight=#post3769774

 

[flusher]

Some of the drum mowers from Europe, Australia and New Zealand have tedder options that are built into their drum mowers to spread out the windrow. Check the Maxam website for more info.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Some of the drum mowers from Europe, Australia and New Zealand have tedder options that are built into their drum mowers to spread out the windrow. Check the Maxam website for more info.

Does anyone have experience with these? I see Galfre has a similar one with what they call their "Black Hole conditioner" although to my untrained eye it looks more like a tedder than a conditioner. Are there others out there? Is the Maxam mower available in the US?

 

[Texasmark]

I have the 6' drum from SFI. My PTO hp is 57. It loafs. Biggest concern is to have enough tractor to keep the left front tire on the ground when in the mow position (mower to the side) and 3PT raised. Course when mowing as others have stated, the drum sits on the two bottom discs and there is very little weight on the rear of the tractor. My tractor weighs about 5300# plus the FEL and I usually don't have the bucket or spear attached; don't need it. Never a problem. Phil from SFI has some videos of he cutter and shows that it will follow pond banks and will run as fast as you dare drive your tractor.

I like the windrow as it gives you a clean start into the next round and no piling up of wads of grass like you hear some folks talk about with their discs on the far end. You can mow forwards, backwards cutting as you back, go over previous cut windrows with no clogging, crawdads and fire ants are no problem. Blades are 3 per drum, run about 3500 rpm and are reversible. Depending on what you are cutting they have varied life cycles. The blades are sharp on both sides and can be put on the opposite drum to use the second side. Phil at SFI sells a 100 count box for $25. Takes about 15 minutes to change out all 6.

Mine comes from Turkey. Belt drive from the pto shaft to the gear train on top of the mower. The gear train consists of a pair of pinion gears on a horizontal shaft, supported by bearings on each end that drives the gears that are attached to the drums. About a dozen parts total, all in an oil bath. Not going to break any time soon.

I had Phil install the extra 1" spacers for a total spec of 3" cut. But since the crop is tilted forward as you cut, I have measured my stubble and it's 4.5 inches for the norm.

So now, the bottom line. Why go to the effort I have for the last several years to inform others? I owe him nothing and I don't work for him. I retired to a small place and got tired of sickle bar problems with JD 1209 antique MOCOs. Being retired I didn't feel the cost of a current disc MOCO suited the application.....minimum revenue for payback, besides me downsizing my tractor to 57 PTO hp.

This crop DID need crimping and teddering. I got about 2 1/4 tons/acre on this one cutting. If you are running grass you don't need a crimper and that's where I'm headed. Problem with grass is that I can't get the yield I did with this Sorghum-Sudan GENETICALLY ENGINEERED HYBRID SEED (Note for the tree huggers). So I am currently dealing with my future plans.

Mark

 

[SPYDERLK]

You must mean the left rear tire.

 

[flusher]

Does anyone have experience with these? I see Galfre has a similar one with what they call their "Black Hole conditioner" although to my untrained eye it looks more like a tedder than a conditioner. Are there others out there? Is the Maxam mower available in the US?

Reese has a U.S. distributor for their drum mowers

http://www.tigercoinc.com/mobile/drum-mowers-c1.html

Don't think the MAXAM has any U.S. distributors.

Note that Reese and Maxam mowers are entirely belt driven. Other manufactures design their drum mowers with solid shafts and gear boxes to drive the drums.

 

[avillahdw]

I've been running a Reese 2070W this year (6'9" cut) on my LS U5030 with zero problems. Only problem I had was not equipment caused but rather operator error. Friend that helps me was cutting since I had to work late and got into some exceptionally heavy mixed gas that that had not been cut on first cut due to be in a low lying area. He forgot to reduce his ground doped and wound up throwing the belt to the outer drum. One edge got chewed up to the point it wouldn't stay on. Replaced- 22'3" x 7/8" for $155 from Tigerco. This mower has been a loaner with intent to buy. Nothing but good things to say. If I had a bigger tractor and was in the market, would buy next bigger (about 9' cut if I remember right). The tedder, when properly adjusted, works pretty good the scatter the windrow naturally created by the counter rotating drums. I like it. They are substantial in weight and fold toward the back for transport rather than raising from side as disc mowers do.

 

[bjr]

What is the grass your cutting? Do you bale it? That's a awesome harvest compare to my alfalfa. I'm in WA state, cold climate in the winter. I got five cuttings on the alfalfa this year. How many cuttings a year with your crop? bjr

 

[Texasmark]

Reese has a U.S. distributor for their drum mowers

http://www.tigercoinc.com/mobile/drum-mowers-c1.html

Don't think the MAXAM has any U.S. distributors.

Note that Reese and Maxam mowers are entirely belt driven. Other manufactures design their drum mowers with solid shafts and gear boxes to drive the drums.

If you are talking about the mower that SFI sells, like I bought, you can see the belt shev and protective cover in my first picture. The PTO shaft is inserted in the drive shev with 4 groves. At the end of the belts, over the mower is another shaft with the receiving shevs that is on a shaft with a gear attached. This gear drives a horizontal shaft that connects to the gears of both drums to ensure they remain in sync since the blades overlap in the center, all contained in a steel "box" for sturdiness and oil filled with a fill/vent spiggot on top.

I don't which is better as I only have the one but it works for me.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

What is the grass your cutting? Do you bale it? That's a awesome harvest compare to my alfalfa. I'm in WA state, cold climate in the winter. I got five cuttings on the alfalfa this year. How many cuttings a year with your crop? bjr

If you are talking about my crop it is a sudan-sorghum hybrid grass. It is bred to be late in heading out which allows you to get a stand like this with no heads....check out the picture. It's also bred to be small stemmed but putting out 50# of seed to the acre ($31 per bag) helps to keep the stems thin, again check out the picture. It is also bred to have the leaf nodules closer together than normal hybrid Haygrazers to increase the yield, again check out the picture. It comes out of Denton, TX. and I would have to dig around for the name of it; but could.

It is a warm season sorghum cross and needs 65F average soil temp to germinate. Down here that put me out to April 16 with a harvest date of June 26 for a 71 day growing season.

This is my first year with the seed. I only got this cutting (plenty for me) due to the regrowth being attacked by Sugar Cane Aphids which caught me off guard and within a few days of my last inspection which was doing great, had sewn their damage, killing the plants.

I was impressed with the crop but it was mainly due to the fact that I couldn't get in and cut it earlier due to the rainy spring we had. However, other than the tremendous amount of foilage I had to process with my small farm equipment, I'm glad now that it happened due to that mentioned.

It obviously requires crimping and I used my NH 404 for that...gave the old girl a real workout.

Yes I baled it and see if I can dig up a picture of a bale, 5x4 from my JD 375 roller.

Funny, I have had these pics out there since early July and you are the first guy to inquire.

Mark

 

[flusher]

If you are talking about the mower that SFI sells, like I bought, you can see the belt shev and protective cover in my first picture. The PTO shaft is inserted in the drive shev with 4 groves. At the end of the belts, over the mower is another shaft with the receiving shevs that is on a shaft with a gear attached. This gear drives a horizontal shaft that connects to the gears of both drums to ensure they remain in sync since the blades overlap in the center, all contained in a steel "box" for sturdiness and oil filled with a fill/vent spiggot on top.

I don't which is better as I only have the one but it works for me.

Mark

Yep, drum mowers like your SFI are hybrid--double or triple belts between the pto pulley sheaves and the sheaves on the first gearbox. From that point on the driveline is gears and driveshafts instead of belts. You're right--that method keeps the phase constant between the drums to prevent the blades from whacking each other.

Belt slippage can cause phasing problems with overlapping blades on drum mowers with belt drive only. One way is to handle this problem is to design in a 0.5-1" difference in cut height on the adjacent drums to prevent blade whack. That amount of uneven cut isn't a big deal on a hayfield. Could be a problem if you use your belt driven drum mower to cut the rough on your golf course.

 

[powerstroke444e]

I starting to look for same thing a affordable way to cut grass hay with some clover in it on a small scale 8-15 acres per cutting, and don't want to use a sickle bar mower or someone else used/abused equipment . I found this mower from Kuhn PZ 170 - Mowers - KUHN North America.com I like that is comes from a name brand dealer. I am also looking at a mower conditioners but good used ones bring more money than buying a new drum mower.