Darn car salespeople.....

[Turbys_1700]

I just purchased two used vehicles this year. Really an abnormality for me since I typically keep vehicles 10 years. Both were purchased from established used car dealers in the area. One was a higher mileage used Ford Contour on the cheap. Dealer was up front and honest with me. Car was a one owner. He typically buys used from wholesale auctions and then performs maintenance like brakes, hoses, ETC... One thing that I really liked about it was the purchase price was the purchase price. No add on doc or title fees. That kills the deal for me. I understand that dealerships have to make a profit but it burns me up that they advertise a price on a vehicle and then in the fine print state a $500 or $600 administrative fee. Just be up front with the cost.

I also sold my camper and diesel dually this summer and needed a truck. Found a really nice 07 Silverado wholesale. Again, this used car dealer did not charge any administrative or add on fees. That is the way I like to do business.

 

[Travelover]

............ One thing that I really liked about it was the purchase price was the purchase price. No add on doc or title fees. That kills the deal for me. I understand that dealerships have to make a profit but it burns me up that they advertise a price on a vehicle and then in the fine print state a $500 or $600 administrative fee. Just be up front with the cost..................

I agree. When I was shopping for a car I just added the doc fee to the quoted price. And indeed in Michigan, that is how it is taxed- as part of the cost of the car, not as a service which would be untaxed.

 

[two_bit_score]

I just purchased two used vehicles this year. Really an abnormality for me since I typically keep vehicles 10 years. Both were purchased from established used car dealers in the area. One was a higher mileage used Ford Contour on the cheap. Dealer was up front and honest with me. Car was a one owner. He typically buys used from wholesale auctions and then performs maintenance like brakes, hoses, ETC... One thing that I really liked about it was the purchase price was the purchase price. No add on doc or title fees. That kills the deal for me. I understand that dealerships have to make a profit but it burns me up that they advertise a price on a vehicle and then in the fine print state a $500 or $600 administrative fee. Just be up front with the cost.

I also sold my camper and diesel dually this summer and needed a truck. Found a really nice 07 Silverado wholesale. Again, this used car dealer did not charge any administrative or add on fees. That is the way I like to do business.

I agree. When I was shopping for a car I just added the doc fee to the quoted price. And indeed in Michigan, that is how it is taxed- as part of the cost of the car, not as a service which would be untaxed.

Travelover, So you're ok paying tax on an additional $5-600 when if it was separate you would save the tax on that amount?

.

 

[two_bit_score]

I just purchased two used vehicles this year. Really an abnormality for me since I typically keep vehicles 10 years. Both were purchased from established used car dealers in the area. One was a higher mileage used Ford Contour on the cheap. Dealer was up front and honest with me. Car was a one owner. He typically buys used from wholesale auctions and then performs maintenance like brakes, hoses, ETC... One thing that I really liked about it was the purchase price was the purchase price. No add on doc or title fees. That kills the deal for me. I understand that dealerships have to make a profit but it burns me up that they advertise a price on a vehicle and then in the fine print state a $500 or $600 administrative fee. Just be up front with the cost.

I also sold my camper and diesel dually this summer and needed a truck. Found a really nice 07 Silverado wholesale. Again, this used car dealer did not charge any administrative or add on fees. That is the way I like to do business.

I agree. When I was shopping for a car I just added the doc fee to the quoted price. And indeed in Michigan, that is how it is taxed- as part of the cost of the car, not as a service which would be untaxed.

Travelover, So you're ok paying tax on an additional $5-600 when if it was separate you would save the tax on that amount?

.

 

[Travelover]

Travelover, So you're ok paying tax on an additional $5-600 when if it was separate you would save the tax on that amount?

.

I think I was unclear. The doc fee is a separate line item, but the state considers it part of the sales price and taxes it. In my case it was $190 with a tax on it of $11.40.

The combining was done in my head because my only concern was the out the door price, regardless of how it was broken out.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think I was unclear. The doc fee is a separate line item, but the state considers it part of the sales price and taxes it. In my case it was $190 with a tax on it of $11.40.

The combining was done in my head because my only concern was the out the door price, regardless of how it was broken out.

OK. I see your point. But is Michigan in so much financial trouble as a state that they have to tax you on an admin fee?

 

[JDgreen227]

OK. I see your point. But is Michigan in so much financial trouble as a state that they have to tax you on an admin fee?

Oh, yes.....Michigan has one of the worst economies of any state....they will (bleep) over everybody to get tax revenue out of them. When Slick Rick the P-Rick began taxing pensions in able to give his cronies business tax breaks, a LOT of seniors began leaving the state. And his tax breaks which were touted to increase employment have produced NO new jobs.

 

[Travelover]

OK. I see your point. But is Michigan in so much financial trouble as a state that they have to tax you on an admin fee?

I don't know the reasoning for taxing the document fee. In my mind, it is simply a tool for the dealer to claw back some profit and therefore actually just part of the purchase price.

 

[JDgreen227]

I don't know the reasoning for taxing the document fee. In my mind, it is simply a tool for the dealer to claw back some profit and therefore actually just part of the purchase price.

Just wanted everybody here to know that the so-called "document preparation fee" is a huge ripoff. Back in Y2K when I purchased a new GMC, the purchase order included a $40 document preparation fee, although GM employee purchases (GMS and GMO) specifically stated such fees were not permitted. I wrote to the dealership afterwards asking them to tell me what the $40 fee was for, and THEY REPLIED IN WRITING IT WAS FOR DOCUMENT PREPARATION. BINGO....I sent a letter to both the GM regional and national offices with a copy of both letters, and the dealership manager and business manager were both fired. I always wondered how many GM employee purchasers were bilked out of the document preparation fee. I am quite certain the money was siphoned off somewhere. Read about a year later that a class action suit had been filed against the dealership for improperly charging the fee, and they went out of business. GOOD !!!!!!!

To charge a fee to prepare documents is a GIGANTIC RIPOFF....

 

[ultrarunner]

The only thing that matters is the out the door cost...

 

[Travelover]

The only thing that matters is the out the door cost...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[JDgreen227]

The only thing that matters is the out the door cost...

REALLY???? Very difficult many times to calculate the actual out the door cost with so many variables. Suppose I buy a $40,000 pickup and the dealer cuts the price if I finance through him for 6 years at 6%, yet my credit union will give me 2.9% for 84 months? Many times out the door cost is not a fixed figure until you have dealt with everything involved.

Back in the 50's and 60's, my dad would buy a new full size Ford every 2-3 years. His method for dealing was to go to his buddy and say "I want that, tell me what you will trade for..." Needless to say, his buddy made megabucks off him, because my dad hated to haggle about the price.

 

[RollingsFarms]

REALLY???? Very difficult many times to calculate the actual out the door cost with so many variables. Suppose I buy a $40,000 pickup and the dealer cuts the price if I finance through him for 6 years at 6%, yet my credit union will give me 2.9% for 84 months? Many times out the door cost is not a fixed figure until you have dealt with everything involved. Back in the 50's and 60's, my dad would buy a new full size Ford every 2-3 years. His method for dealing was to go to his buddy and say "I want that, tell me what you will trade for..." Needless to say, his buddy made megabucks off him, because my dad hated to haggle about the price.

The salesman I deal with is exactly like one your dad dealt with. So far he's sold me 3 trucks and has been one of the main reasons I stay with Chevrolet/GMC. Ford might have a better truck but their dealer network stinks to high heaven. They are good trucks but not so good that they can treat me like crap when I'm trying to buy one.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've never bought a vehicle or tractor on time...

Also never had a trade.

Makes it real hard to hide profit centers in with the legal ease and fine print on a cash sale.

Just like the fabric protection, rust proofing, extended warranties, low rate financing, theft protection, etc...

Don't really care how many things are added to they try to add... bottom line is the amount I write on my check.

Some are very effective with credit union financing... keeps the dealer honest because it is still a cash deal as far as they are concerned.

The best scenario for a dealer is a vehicle bought on time with a trade...

In California, there is no advantage to having a trade other than convenience... the sales tax is based on the full purchase price.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The salesman I deal with is exactly like one your dad dealt with. So far he's sold me 3 trucks and has been one of the main reasons I stay with Chevrolet/GMC. Ford might have a better truck but their dealer network stinks to high heaven. They are good trucks but not so good that they can treat me like crap when I'm trying to buy one.

Depends on the area. Around here Ford dealerships are 5 times better than GM who is 3 times better than Ram.

The import dealers are all really good. Especially the small lines like Kia and Hyundai.

Chris

 

[RollingsFarms]

Depends on the area. Around here Ford dealerships are 5 times better than GM who is 3 times better than Ram. The import dealers are all really good. Especially the small lines like Kia and Hyundai. Chris

I've shopped the 3 closest Ford dealers near me over the years with no luck at all. I hear there's some good ones a few hours away but not sure if want to have to drive that far if I had a warranty issue. Wouldn't take the truck to the local ones because the service are as bad as the sales. The GM dealer I buy from has excellent sales but service is always slow so I go to another GM dealer. The best dealership that I've been to was BMW but couldn't talk my mother into letting me buy her one when she was car shopping.

 

[JDgreen227]

I've never bought a vehicle or tractor on time...

Also never had a trade.

Makes it real hard to hide profit centers in with the legal ease and fine print on a cash sale.

Just like the fabric protection, rust proofing, extended warranties, low rate financing, theft protection, etc...

Don't really care how many things are added to they try to add... bottom line is the amount I write on my check.

Some are very effective with credit union financing... keeps the dealer honest because it is still a cash deal as far as they are concerned.

The best scenario for a dealer is a vehicle bought on time with a trade...

In California, there is no advantage to having a trade other than convenience... the sales tax is based on the full purchase price.

Michigan is the same way about sales tax on a vehicle purchase, if you buy a $40,000 truck and the dealer gives you $39,990 for your trade you still pay full sales tax on the forty grand. As far as I know, you are one of a very select group...those who can pay cash for a new vehicle. Happy that you can do that as it makes buying much less complex. I recall back in '93 when my ex and I bought a loaded Cutlass Supreme ragtop for fifty bucks down...yes FIFTY BUCKS. The Auto Body Credit Union was running a special on new car loans and all we had to do was open an account there...another 50 bucks and we drove home in a 27 grand car....the good old days.....

 

[ultrarunner]

Michigan is the same way about sales tax on a vehicle purchase, if you buy a $40,000 truck and the dealer gives you $39,990 for your trade you still pay full sales tax on the forty grand. As far as I know, you are one of a very select group...those who can pay cash for a new vehicle. Happy that you can do that as it makes buying much less complex. I recall back in '93 when my ex and I bought a loaded Cutlass Supreme ragtop for fifty bucks down...yes FIFTY BUCKS. The Auto Body Credit Union was running a special on new car loans and all we had to do was open an account there...another 50 bucks and we drove home in a 27 grand car....the good old days.....

I've only personally bought one new car for me... a BMW with factory delivery in Munich in 2002... it was a deal to good to pass up since I would be on assignment there... still have it and looks like new and I do use it for road trips and it gets the best MPG and I like driving it even if we do have speed limits here ;-(

Also bought the L3800 and BX23 new.

Everything else has been used down to the $800 Plymouth Valiant I bought in High School and still own... drove it daily for 25 years... much to the embarrassment of my Boss... said if I have to drive it... please do not park in company lot! No rust, perfect paint and clean whitewall tires!!!

It's just my Grandparents living through the Depression influence on me... I heard a million times if you don't have the cash/money in hand... you can't afford it.

I've sold a few over the years and never for less than I paid for them... guess I can't ever sell the BMW because I would take a loss...

Some of my favorite cars were my 71 Skylark Convert and my 72 442 Convert... had fun over the summer, detailed like new and never put the top up and each one got sold when I needed down payment money for Real Estate... just like the 68 factory Z-28... nice cars and loved owning them...

 

[Travelover]

......... As far as I know, you are one of a very select group...those who can pay cash for a new vehicle. .............

Actually, anyone can pay cash. They just need to have the discipline to put those monthly payments into savings before hand instead of into loan payments after the fact. Plus, you save the finance fees. My dad used to do this even back in the 1950's and he just worked as a factory worker.

 

[ultrarunner]

It does keep things simple using the cash method...

I know I'm not alone even if I am in the distinct minority...

Plus... there is something about parting with the money that makes it real and more often than not... reality will sink in and I no longer "Need" whatever it was I thought I needed.

Even buying the last Kubota... the finance package was enticing until I learned I could get close to another $1,000 loped off for cash.

Dealer told me he would be out of business if he depended on cash sales...

There is a huge segment of the population that shops based on payments... why deny yourself or put off what you can have today on time.

In the family car business... we would often carry simple interest notes for a year or less... it was more like a sale with several installments... nothing like today where notes are often 6, 7 or even 8 years out.

I do borrow using first deeds of trust to buy income property... to me it is a little different in that I am using the real estate to pay off the mortgage and in time, the real estate purchased will hopefully appreciate or at least the rents will increase.