installing power beyond on Deutz

[bookel]

I want to run my post driver on my tractor. I got a power beyond block for my Deutz D4006. After I got it installed and had hoses with quick connect couplings attached to the pb I cranked the tractor. It makes a whining noise like its starving for hydraulic fluid and my 3pt hitch won't lift. I shut the tractor off after a couple of seconds. Then I realized of course that the terminal block that I removed to put on the pb block creates a loop for the hydraulic fluid to return with. Then I had an idea to make a short hose to create a loop on the quick connects at the rear while I'm not using them. However, the post driver for instance, receives fluid from the pb block but it returns fluid into the hydraulic fill port and not back into the pb block. Needless to say I have no experience with hydraulics. There aren't any shops close by for me to go to so I'm on my own unless I can get some advice online. Basically I need to be able to use the post driver and the 3pt hitch at the same time, to be able to lift and lower the driver. Here's a picture of the pb block with the hoses attached.

 

[J_J]

You need a priority valve or flow divider in the circuit. A priority valve will provide a set amount of fluid to the priority circuit, maybe the post pounder, and the remaining fluid to the 3pt.

A flow control valve will feed the main circuit, the post pounder and the excess flow can go to the 3pt.

If you have 10 GPM, 8 GPM can go to the post pounder and 2 to the 3pt or any volume in between.

1/2 NPT HYD FLOW CONTROL VALVE W/RELIEF RDRS150-16

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[bookel]

Thanks J_J. Let me see if I have my head wrapped around this correctly as far as plumbing this. I run my PB out to the in on the flow valve. The controlled flow port out to the rear quick disconnect (where the post driver is connected), and the excess flow port to the return side of my pb. Do I run the excess flow port to a T fitting on my return hose that I have running to the rear? This way if I am using another hydraulic implement that uses both the send and return at the back of the tractor I just run the flow valve with the excess flow port off. When I am using the post driver I run the excess flow port somewhere in between. Is that about it?

 

[J_J]

If you want 3pt, you run the excess flow back to the 3pt.

The EF flow is usable fluid if you need it.

CF flow goes to the post pounder, and the post ponder return/OUT goes directly to the filler cap. You want no restriction in that line.

 

[bookel]

I finally received all of my parts and I put it together like this; Out of PB to In of flow valve (Prince RD-150-16), CF to line to run to post pounder (PP currently not connected), EF Out to quick connect line that is connected directly to the line going to the In on the PB.

I cranked my tractor, no 3pt hitch response and tractor making a whining noise, guess I'm dead heading, bad idea. I tried turning the lever on the flow valve in all positions but the situation did not change.

When I put my terminal block back in place, removing the PB, 3pt itch works fine and no unusual noises. What have I done wrong?

 

[J_J]

You can use either the EF from the priority control valve, or use the PB from the post pounder to feed the 3pt.

If you use the post pounder PB, you will have full flow when not using the post pounder.

If you use the EF, you will feed the 3pt part of the hyd flow which is controlled by the lever on the flow control valve.

One path, pump, hyd blk, flow divider CF to post pounder, and EF to 3pt, tank.

Another path, pump, hyd blk, flow divider CF to post pounder, PB out to 3pt.

All returns go to tank.

Example: If you have 10 GPM, and flow control valve puts 8 GPM go to the post pounder, then 2 GPM is EF, excess flow and will feed the 3pt.

If you feed the 3pt with the post pounder PB port, you will have the full 10 GPM for the 3pt if the post pounder is in neutral.

 

[bookel]

Wait, the post driver has a PB out on it? In that case I'd like to take the flow valve out completely. This way I can run Out from tractor PB to In on PD, Out of PD PB to In on tractor PB, then dump from PD to fill port on tractor. Sound right?
I'm posting a picture of the PD valve. Can you indicate which port it the PB out from it?

 

[J_J]

Some post pounders have PB.

What brand is the post pounder.

What brand is the valve?

Valves are usually marked with letters stamped by ports.

Try and ID all the ports.

The post pounder OUT port can only go to tank.

 

[bookel]

It is a Shaver HD-10. I emailed their tech support to see if if has one.

 

[J_J]

The newer Shaver HD-10 have a conversion plug to make the valve a PB

valve.

I believe the comes with just a plug which makes the valve a open center valve.

I believe a PB sleeve is available to make the valve a PB valve.

This valve can also be converted to closed center.

You may have an older valve.

Look at page 50 and see if your valve looks like that one.

Shaver | Model HD-10-H Post Driver

 

[cooterdude]

the pb on that valve is the plug in the side of the end cap right above your hand

 

[bookel]

Thanks for the info. I also had a Shaver tech verify this is indeed the PD's PB port. When I remove the plug I connect a hydraulic line which in turn connects to the In on my tractor PB. The Out on my tractor PB goes to the hydraulic line that is already on the PD, the PD's IN. The large dump line from the PD is going to the tractor hydraulic fill port. Connected like this and the PD does not engage and my 3pt hitch will not raise. I disconnect the PD and loop the tractor PB and the 3pt hitch works. What am I missing? Here's a picture.

 

[J_J]

I am not sure I follow you in your description, so let me say this.

Simple answer is, all flow is flowing through the OUT port as that is the path of least resistance .

Before you added the Post pounder, you had a hose from the hyd blk PB hose going to the back for the 3pt.

Remove this hose from the 3pt in port.

You should have inserted the Post Pounder in series using the PB from the hyd blk going to the Post Pounder valve IN port, and the Post Pounder PB hose to the 3pt IN port.

Did you purchase the PB adapter for the PB port? If you did not, the flow is flowing through the OUT port to tank. No 3pt and no Post Pounder.

Although that port is a PB port, it can be used for other things.

You need the PB adapter, which separates the the pump flow from the cyl flow.

There are three fittings that can fit that port.

Open center plug. Allows pump fluid to flow to the OUT port.

Closed center plug. Blocks fluid flow to a standby state.

PB sleeve. Allows pump flow and blocks cyl flow.

It may look like this.

 

[bookel]

J_J, you have described the flow I have correctly. "PB from the hyd blk going to the Post Pounder valve IN port, and the Post Pounder PB hose to the 3pt IN port" I hooked a hosed directly into the driver's PB port. So as you say I should get a PB adapter to go in that PB port on the driver. As of now the flow is probably simply going back to the fill tank all the time. Correct? I'll get up with Shaver again and see if they can point me to an adapter. Thanks.

 

[J_J]

Either Shaver or a hyd shop, if they sell or service that valve.

See if you can get a valve model number.

It is either a Greasen or a Prince valve.

 

[bookel]

J_J, I opened the line that's returning to the fill port on the tank and cranked the tractor. Sure enough oil is flowing constantly through that line. I'm going to clean the valve up and see if I can get some numbers. Here's a short video I shot illustrating what I have connected right now.

 

[bookel]

J_J thanks for all the help. I finally "got" what you were telling me. Today I plugged the PB on the post driver again. PD to the tractor out hydraulics line and to the fill port. Cranked the tractor and no dead head. Driver raises and lowers as it should. When you said the oil is continuously flowing out the PD dump hose at first I didn't grasp this. Now I understand it is continuously flowing until I lift the hammer on the PD and avoids dead head against the tractor's pump. Before I thought that since there wasn't a normal return line from the PD I needed to create one. I apologize for being a difficult student. I am very grateful for you to pass on your knowledge. I have learned. Just so you know I have almost no experience with a tractor and less than that with hydraulics. Very thankful for yours, and everyone else patience. Is there a flow diverter valve that will change direction of the flow between two lines without sharing flow? I got the Prince one you told me about but I don't like that there isn't a sure way to know if I have all flow going one direction or another.

 

[J_J]

Sure.

Single selector valve. $62

1/2" NPT 20 GPM PRINCE SELECTOR VALVE

Double selector valve. $98

1/2" NPT 20 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

A solenoid divider valve will do that also. About $100

Did you install the PB adapter?

 

[bookel]

Thanks, I will check into those valves. I didn't install the PB adapter. I plugged the hole back the way it originally was. So now if want to use the PD I first have to hook to the 3pt hitch, lift it to the height I want then turn off tractor. I have the tractor hydraulic pb plate running in a loop via a short "jumper" line that has two male quick disconnect ends so I remove the "jumper line, connect my Out from tractor to In on PD. Large dump line from PD to fill port on tractor. In line on tractor PB is left with nothing connected. This runs the PD but I have to disconnect PD and re-loop the tractor hydraulics lines if I need to raise the 3pt hitch. Its a little inconvenient but that is what I am hoping the selector valve will remedy.

 

[J_J]

I am not understanding why you are not using the PB port. That way, you can use the 3pt and run the Post pounder.

If you use the OUT port in series with another valve, you could damage the post pounder valve. The out port is not rated for high pressure.