Same old story: Power Trac vs Ventrac

v4brad · Jun 8, 2014

I have a half acre lot with a gentle 4% slope in the front yard that turns into an 18 degree (approx 32%) slope in the back. The slope levels off at the bottom right at the edge of the property so it is sloped all the way down and from side to side. Think of it as a flat slab that is tilted 18 degrees. I have a few huge oak trees that generate bushels and bushels of leaves. I moved into this place last August so we've been through one Autumn and I don't plan on going through another without some serious power equipment to take care of the leaves. I did a little research and bought a John Deere x540 because it had a differential lock. It did fine going up and down the hill and even across the slope as long as conditions were perfect. Perfect means dry, not towing a load, not driving in leaves or any vegetation. I purchased a wonderful Craftsman leaf collection and chipper machine that you tow behind the mower and attaches via a 6" flexible hose connected to the side discharge chute. I got the x540 stuck several times and had to use my chain and come-along to get it out.

I decided I needed a 4WD tractor so I sold the x540 and found a JD X729 at the area JD dealer. The salesman told me the x729 wouldn't take a FEL (even though I'd seen one on YouTube) and that a 45 loader was very hard to get as they were not being made by JD any more. So okay, let's look at the 1023E. Rusty from James River Equipment brought one out to my place at 7:00am and we tried it on the slope. It was very unstable on the side slope - a little push and it would have gone over. The 1023E was fourteen grand with the FEL and 54" mower. Not a bad price but the tractor was not meant for slopes.

I was told by a friend to check out a Mahindra eMax as he thought they had a lower center of gravity than the John Deere. I was quoted over sixteen grand on the 22. Fourteen was pushing it to do some mowing, leaf collection and a little digging on my half acre so I kept lookinig.

Found the Ventrac online and loved the 3400 diesel on paper but it was quoted at over nineteen by the dealer. The 3400L was over 17 and a 3121 was quoted at fifteen plus. Then I found the Power Trac and it looks like the price might be right for the 422 but I haven't found out much about it doing slopes. Bob on this forum said in a post that the PT425 was a good mower but the Ventrac was better, that the 425 was good on slopes but the Ventrac was better.

Tazewell is a 4 hour drive from here so it wouldn't be too much trouble to get over there and see one but I'd be pleased to hear from any who have experience with the PT422 on slopes. Thank you in advance for your responses.

v4Brad
Tractorless at the moment

MossRoad · Jun 8, 2014

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

Marks481 · Jun 9, 2014

1. I have a 22 degree slope in my back yard, which I mow across, and sometimes feels like I am on the limits of stability. In my case it is only a short section, if I was going to mow something that continued sloping down a further distance, than I think I would want a wider stance (like Kent now has on his PT425).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/309538-425-w-1430-wheelmotor-boxes.html

2. Leaf and clipping collection. No stock leaf collectors available for the mower. I have pulled a lawn sweeper around, but don't do that any more as half the advantage of this thing is the ninja -like quickness, and it is hard to back out of corners when you jackknife the trailer. You can get some vacuum trailers, which I have always sworn I was going to do when I lived in the land of oak trees (but don't need it now that I am back in the PNW among pine trees).

3. I have a PT422; if I was going to do it all over again, I would but a PT425. Worth the extra $2500 (actually $2000 when you see the PT425 comes with the $500 ROPS which is optional on the PT422)... it is not just 3 hp, but higher front end lift, better wheel motors, and double steering cylinders.

cqaigy2 · Jun 9, 2014

Welcome to TBN.

I have a 422 because I live on a hillside and it's heavily timbered, so i need to be able to maneuver around some pretty small areas. I initially borrowed a kabota with a backhoe and front end loader. It did ok if i was very careful and extended the backhoe toward the uphill, but my Wife caught me on three wheels one to many times and nixed that. I don't worry at all with the 422, i may push it as far as slopes go, probably beyond the rating for the engine but it's only for a short period. I did spring for the ROPS I haven't rolled the tractor, but have had some largish, 6", limbs fall out of the trees from approximately 70 feet and land on it. Scared the crap out of me, thought a tree hit me, but no harm. I mostly use the rough cut mower and bucket. I use it to haul my firewood out of the woods too.

Good luck on your selection and feel free to keep us posted with your thoughts etc.

woodlandfarms · Jun 9, 2014

Ventrac is a great machine and handles slopes well. This said, it is just a mower. You get a 425 and you now have an fel and the option for lots of toys.

You should read up here, but Power-Trac has minor fit/finish issues. They have no dealer support. You deal directly with the factory and they are quite helpful. IMO the pti is the swiss army knife of the tractor world. It does everything, but none of it exceptionally well, most if it just really good.

Can't answer the comments on slope work but I am sure it is good, mine is rated at 45 so it won't really ever go over.

MuncyBob · Jun 9, 2014

I have the 422 and hardly a level spot on my property. For awhile I was very timid going across slopes, just felt like I was going to tip(never have!). Now some 750 hours later I tackle the slopes comfortably, many times on 3 wheels while mowing. It will drift a bit and I find myself having to back up and come across the slope again due to the drifting but it's no big deal. Once the fluids get hot you will lose some ability to go up slopes. I use to have to shut off the mower and even lift it to get up a slope. Experience has taught me which areas to cut when fluids are cool and even when I need to mow up a slope backwards.

I hardly ever rake leaves anymore(we have several large maples so lots of leaves), just mulch them good with the mower and the next day you don't see the debris and it helps the soil. If I was to buy again I would go for the 425 and the 60" mower deck. Find a reason to visit the area up here and you can mow my slopes for me

v4brad · Jun 9, 2014

Thanks everyone. I would love to mow your slopes Farmall, Maybe I can make a motorcycle trip out of it sometime.

Growing up on a farm in Idaho our "modern" tractors were John Deere 4020's, but we had three old tricycle tractors, a Farmall model H, a John Deere model B and the other one was a Case or Allis Chalmers, can't quite remember.

MuncyBob · Jun 10, 2014

I should probably change my name here as the Farmall 140 left the stable 2+ years ago. I hardly ever used it since getting the PT and figured it needed to go where it could be useful. I still regret selling it though as it was in very good condition.

ponytug · Jun 10, 2014

Isn't the first sign of recovery letting go? :thumbsup:

I still miss old companions. You spend a lot of time with them and certainly get to know them well.

Stay safe!

Peter

v4brad · Jun 12, 2014

I spent the night in Bluefield and will be going to Tazewell in an hour to see the Power Trac 422 and 425. Report to follow.
The Ventrac dealer is going to bring a 3000 series to my home for a demo soon and then it will be decision time.

Clumber · Jun 12, 2014

Back in 2010 I too was on the fence between a PT 425 and a Ventrac 4000 series. Bottom line was the PT with many attachments with shipping was $26,000. The Ventrac plus needed attachments approached $50,000. Note, the Ventrac dealers in my area were willing to discount 9%.

The Ventrac is more of a high-tech machine, The PT is more low tech thus probably more reliable. The PT does very acceptable mowing and snow removing. The Ventrac is an excellent mower and snow handling machine. Ventrac has a weak loader you can add-on for $5000+. PT 425 has a loader with 7-800 lb capacity included.

I love my PT 425, but wish I had the Ventrac as well. At one point I was going to buy a used Ventrac and later look for a used PT. But I reconsidered when thinking about twice the maintenance and storage needed.

MuncyBob · Jun 14, 2014

v4brad said:
I spent the night in Bluefield and will be going to Tazewell in an hour to see the Power Trac 422 and 425. Report to follow.
The Ventrac dealer is going to bring a 3000 series to my home for a demo soon and then it will be decision time.

So, how was the visit?

v4brad · Jun 16, 2014

I rode my motorcycle to Tazewell on Wednesday. I called ahead and talked to Terry and when I saw I wouldn't make it before 5pm he agreed to meet me early on Thursday. I stayed overnight in Bluefield and then met Terry at the Power Trac factory at 10 minutes to 7. We met in the showroom and he showed me the 425 and several attachments. Then we walked down to the demo area and I drove a 425, did some mowing and scooped some gravel in the bucket. I didn't feel pressured at all. Terry was very friendly and helpful. When he saw I was on a motorcycle he told me I would have to ride over the "back of the dragon" when I left. He explained that it was Highway 16 between Tazewell and Marion and it went over three mountain ranges on a twisty road. Anyway, back to the Power Trac.

It feels bigger than it looks I think when you are sitting in it and driving it. It does feel like you are in it rather than on it. The thing is a marvel of simplicity. And solid. Built with 3/16th steel it is heavy duty and should last a few lifetimes. It consists of an engine, two hydraulic pumps, some hydraulic hoses and the hydraulic motors on the wheels. No transmission, no gearbox, no complicated steering mechanism. Hydraulics is the core of their business and they do it very well. I see what y'all mean by the PT being more tractor than mower. It just plain feels rugged and strong. I examined the mowing deck and like everything else, it is 3/16th inch steel, simple and very heavy duty. The PT is speedy as well. Terry had me run it on the parking lot at full throttle and I'm sure it does the 10 mph that is advertised.

Turning an articulated machine like the PT takes some getting used to. I noticed that when I first start turning it the machine briefly starts to go the opposite direction before settling into the turn. It may not actually go the opposite way, it just feels like it. Hard to explain. I've read on this forum several times that you really need to drive the tractor before making any purchase decisions.

I feel much more informed and will be able to make a better decision as a result of test riding the PT. I'm confident if I do get the PT that it will be a solid, reliable and capable tractor that is easy to maintain.

As I left, Terry gave me directions to the Back of the Dragon so I rode south to the 3rd exit and turned left. It was 30 miles of the best motorcycle riding I have yet done. Three mountain ranges is not an exaggeration. Switch backs and curves by the score going up and down, up and down, and up and down again. I'm already planning to go ride it again.

Next in this saga is going to be a demo of the Ventrac 3121 on my property. I'm still negotiating a price with the dealer. Once that is worked out I will have the demo. I don't want him bringing the tractor/mower out here unless I know I can purchase it if it turns out to be the winner of my little contest. I had the price worked out when the John Deere dealer brought out the 1025 and would have purchased it if it had been more stable on the slope. So I'm looking forward to getting the Ventrac thing worked out so I can see it in action.

murphy1244 · Jun 16, 2014

The big draw back to Ventrac is its not made for FEL work. I would try a 4500 series as I did and bought one.

cqaigy2 · Jun 16, 2014

I saw a photo article of "Back of the Dragon", some years ago. It looked beautiful and a great motorcycle or cage

ride.

MossRoad · Jun 20, 2014

The reason the PT feels weird when you first drive one is that the seat is attached to the front half of the unit and the pivot between the front and back half of the machine is under your butt. As you turn the wheel to the left, the center of the machine moves to the right and vice versa. You get used to it after several hours of operation and the more you drive it it just becomes an extension of your body. I've been driving articulated machines for about 30 years. It comes naturally quickly. :thumbsup:

pequeajim · Jun 29, 2014

I have had both. Ventrac 4xxx and now have a PT425. The 425 is MUCH more of a workhorse than the ventrac, however, the ventrac is a very slightly better mower, especially going up hills. The hydraulics on the 425 drove the mower as well as the 4 wheel motors. This causes the 425 top bog sometimes when mowing up steeper holds that you can't go side to side on. The ventrac never had a problem on the same hill. Needless to say, I sold the ventrac and bought a 425 with a bunch of attachments. The biggest problem with the 425 that I have had is starting mine in the winter. The Robin engine does not like it cooler than 40 degrees. If they would put a 25 horse Kubota diesel in it, I'd be all over that. I love my little green Kermit!

v4brad · Jul 2, 2014

Thank you all so much for your comments. I tried the Ventrac 3100 and really liked the size of it compared to the PT425. I realize they aren't completely comparable. There is no denying the versatility and ruggedness of the PT425. It was too much tractor for me so I purchased the 3100. I just love it. I want to mow all the lawns in the neighborhood. Right now I'm getting it set up with my MCD (material collection device) aka leaf vacuum. I know this isn't the Ventrac forum but I'll post something here later when I've had some more time with my new machine and give a more complete report.

boggen · Jul 2, 2014

i am going to get smacked across the face, but seems like ya going pretty good overkill for 1/2 acre yard.

have you tried every filling the rear tires with fluid to get you some extra weight in the rear end, and get some better traction? weight in tires also helps some by getting COG (center of gravity) for the tractor a tad lower, so less chance of flipping it over on a hill.

swamping out rear tires for say R4 or R1 style tires that have ribs in them to grab the dirt, on a riding lawn mower is a tad overkill, and you will more likely get better luck with "tire chains" on rear tires.

the up hill battle you face is both, a light weight machine, and tires that will not give you much traction. and you will most likely face same issue no matter what machine you end up with.

granted 4x4 / MFWD will help, but overall fill tires up with some fluid, and see about chains for rear tires, maybe even wheel weights.

if the engine simply does not have enough HP to spin the tires in all condition (( you are loosing traction)) then its not a HP issue but traction issue.

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BAH just forget some riding lawn mowers, you may need to get "wheel / rim spacers" do to not enough clearance :/ it might be possible to swap real wheels, so you get a wider mowing machine and give you enough inside clearance for chains. (( its all in the rims, and how much offset the rims have, that can allow for this))