Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant

/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #1  

MinnesotaEric

Super Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
5,470
Location
Nevis, MN
Tractor
Kioti NX6010
I thought I'd cross-post something I wrote in the hopes that maybe one dealer or one territory rep would read it, take it to heart and try to raise the level of salesmanship and professionalism. I must have shopped two dozen different dealers in two months trying to find a tractor, but also trying to find a professional who could cross his tees and dot his ayes, and who had the skills and ability to work autonomously without need to go ask for help with every question, or to "ask the boss," if that was okay.

If no other thing is learned, take this to heart: teach your people to return phone calls and when leaving your phone number on voice mail say, who you are, who you're with slowly and then say, "I'll give you my number twice," and say your phone number twice. Why? because the first time you say it, people are scrambling around trying to get a pen to work, and the second time you say it, they got it written down without need to listen to the entire voice mail over again.

Anyway, onto my rant.

Plenty of members here report dealers that won't negotiate one penny on price, and actually get mad when someone tries to negotiate, or mention comparison shopping with another dealer.

Awe, the poor dealer? I comparison shopped and haggled.

As a guy who has at one point been in outside sales and as former a sales manager for outside sales, what astounded me in the entire industry was the lack of professionalism, familiarity and enthusiasm. If a sales cat is going to help people part with tens of thousands of dollars, he or she must understand that in the days of the internet they are a guide, and that their purpose insofar as customers are concerned, is to make everything easy.

Fixed prices remind me of Saturn. Remember them? Great little cars. The marque went under due to lack of sales volume because fixed prices tell me that no matter what, the dealer wants and additional $1500-2000 on top of a normal sales margin, end of quarter spiff, and end of year spiff. And for what? To stare at a computer screen to generate a quote on something you know nothing about and don't have on your lot, so you'll just need to order it anyway?

Reminds me of my last truck purchase. I knew exactly what I wanted but every dealer I visited messed around and wouldn't give me the deal I want (sold cars for a stint too so I understand their business). Eventually, I visited a dealer in a smaller town and I told him I want to order a truck $500 below invoice and the sales guy got it and said, "So all I need to do to get a sale is start saying, 'Yes'?"

Bamb! one of the funner purchases I've done and at the end of the day, the dealer still made $2800.

When I was shopping for a tractor I disclosed up front I wanted to do a cash sale inside of 45 days. The tractor business is so bad at people not returning phone calls, misquoting, producing incorrect or bad information, that I even got on the phone with several different territory reps. And that's when I discovered the source of the problem:

On whole these guys failed to understand that due to the internet, dealers are no longer the gatekeepers of information. The "cloud" is, we are the gatekeepers because we all chatter at each other on the internet and share information.

They failed to understand that sales people are now guides who offer as much or as little information and help and services to customers as needed, but sales people need to determine their "status" immediately in the beginning with the customer.

They failed to understand that due to the flattening of information, sales people need to become familiar with their own product lines and those sales people who cannot do so should be let go. Excuses that everything changes too much don't fly. I sold servers, fiber optic networks, and desktops business to business: do you really think that junk doesn't change every day of every week and then in an industry where 20%, one fifth of everything that gets parked out on your costumers' business will screw up or somehow explode in the first 60 days? That's what being a professional salesperson is all about managing the customers' expectations while making everything as easy as possible.

With the reps I spoke to, on whole, their company culture, or their own biases failed to understand that a sales person who helps people part with tens of dollars at a time will get blown out of the water by a salesperson who helps people part with hundreds of dollars at a time. So too will a sales person who helps people part with thousands of dollars at a time be blown out of the water by the professional who helps people part with tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars at a time. Agg and heavy equipment sales isn't like walking into Radio Shack where the help isn't skilled.

At the same time, I understand that not everybody can be a sales person. To be in sales and be good, sales people must be chatty. By chatty, they must be able to easily drift into conversations, be able to immediately establish empathy with their customer and then guide the customer along the way points of making a sale that satisfies their customers expectations.

When I sold B to B, I knew if I had a guy talking about beer or fishing in the first five minutes, I knew I was going to sell him or her something at some point. It was about establishing relationships, and familiarity with my own product lines where I knew I could provide a solution to my customers needs and meet or exceed their expectations by quickly allowing my customer to frame their expectations for me and identifying with those expectations.

Clumsily staring into a computer screen while attempting to quote a tractor using software you're not familiar with is no way to sell to anybody, let alone assert that the price is the price.


</rant>
 
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/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #2  
J'd like to take a chance to respond to a few things in your rant, and get your feedback on my thoughts. I'm a new sales rep for a heavy equipment company (less than 2 months sales experience). My degree is in heavy equipment, but I have 0 "professional" sales experience. My specialty at the company is municipal sales, so mostly I'm bidding on equipment, however a relationship is extremely important to have the municipality call me first before a bid goes out.

I thought I'd cross-post something I wrote in the hopes that maybe one dealer or one territory rep would read it, take it to heart and try to raise the level of salesmanship and professionalism. I must have shopped two dozen different dealers in two months trying to find a tractor, but also trying to find a professional who could cross his tees and dot his ayes, and who had the skills and ability to work autonomously without need to go ask for help with every question, or to "ask the boss," if that was okay.

This, I'm trying to get better at. Given, I'm new, however when I price anything over $10,000 I have to go check with someone first.

If no other thing is learned, take this to heart: teach your people to return phone calls and when leaving your phone number on voice mail say, who you are, who you're with slowly and then say, "I'll give you my number twice," and say your phone number twice. Why? because the first time you say it, people are scrambling around trying to get a pen to work, and the second time you say it, they got it written down without need to listen to the entire voice mail over again.

Returning calls is something I take very serious. Nothing I hate worse than waiting on someone to call me back, so I make sure I'm not that person.
Anyway, onto my rant.



Awe, the poor dealer? I comparison shopped and haggled.

As a guy who has at one point been in outside sales and as former a sales manager for outside sales, what astounded me in the entire industry was the lack of professionalism, familiarity and enthusiasm. If a sales cat is going to help people part with tens of thousands of dollars, he or she must understand that in the days of the internet they are a guide, and that their purpose insofar as customers are concerned, is to make everything easy.

Fixed prices remind me of Saturn. Remember them? Great little cars. The marque went under due to lack of sales volume because fixed prices tell me that no matter what, the dealer wants and additional $1500-2000 on top of a normal sales margin, end of quarter spiff, and end of year spiff. And for what? To stare at a computer screen to generate a quote on something you know nothing about and don't have on your lot, so you'll just need to order it anyway?

Reminds me of my last truck purchase. I knew exactly what I wanted but every dealer I visited messed around and wouldn't give me the deal I want (sold cars for a stint too so I understand their business). Eventually, I visited a dealer in a smaller town and I told him I want to order a truck $500 below invoice and the sales guy got it and said, "So all I need to do to get a sale is start saying, 'Yes'?"

Bamb! one of the funner purchases I've done and at the end of the day, the dealer still made $2800.

One of our product reps told me to listen twice as much as you talk.

When I was shopping for a tractor I disclosed up front I wanted to do a cash sale inside of 45 days. The tractor business is so bad at people not returning phone calls, misquoting, producing incorrect or bad information, that I even got on the phone with several different territory reps. And that's when I discovered the source of the problem:

I hate shopping for things and get incorrect information, especially when *I* know the correct information before I walk in the door. I also hate when other sales reps just say things to be talking, whether true or not.

On whole these guys failed to understand that due to the internet, dealers are no longer the gatekeepers of information. The "cloud" is, we are the gatekeepers because we all chatter at each other on the internet and share information.

They failed to understand that sales people are now guides who offer as much or as little information and help and services to customers as needed, but sales people need to determine their "status" immediately in the beginning with the customer.

They failed to understand that due to the flattening of information, sales people need to become familiar with their own product lines and those sales people who cannot do so should be let go. Excuses that everything changes too much don't fly. I sold servers, fiber optic networks, and desktops business to business: do you really think that junk doesn't change every day of every week and then in an industry where 20%, one fifth of everything that gets parked out on your costumers' business will screw up or somehow explode in the first 60 days? That's what being a professional salesperson is all about managing the customers' expectations while making everything as easy as possible.

I try to become as familiar as I can with what we sell. I am constantly doing training, out in the lot driving a piece of equipment, looking at brochures, etc. Nothing I hate worse than asking someone something relatively simple and having them look confused. THAT being said, I sell nearly 250 different pieces of equipment. Its inevitable that a customer will ask a question I wont know the answer to. When they do, I make it a point to say "I dont know, but I'll find out as soon as possible".

With the reps I spoke to, on whole, their company culture, or their own biases failed to understand that a sales person who helps people part with tens of dollars at a time will get blown out of the water by a salesperson who helps people part with hundreds of dollars at a time. So too will a sales person who helps people part with thousands of dollars at a time be blown out of the water by the professional who helps people part with tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars at a time. Agg and heavy equipment sales isn't like walking into Radio Shack where the help isn't skilled.

At the same time, I understand that not everybody can be a sales person. To be in sales and be good, sales people must be chatty. By chatty, they must be able to easily drift into conversations, be able to immediately establish empathy with their customer and then guide the customer along the way points of making a sale that satisfies their customers expectations.

I've also been told that there is a time to shut up. You can talk yourself into a corner. Co-worker of mine did this recently. Customer was asking about a tier 4 tractor that was on our lot, and was it DPF or EGR. Co-worker told him it was EGR and how much better DPF was than EGR. Come to find out, the tractor we had was an EGR tractor and he lost that customer.

When I sold B to B, I knew if I had a guy talking about beer or fishing in the first five minutes, I knew I was going to sell him or her something at some point. It was about establishing relationships, and familiarity with my own product lines where I knew I could provide a solution to my customers needs and meet or exceed their expectations by quickly allowing my customer to frame their expectations for me and identifying with those expectations.

When I go out to meet customers (mostly public works directors, DOT, town managers etc), my first visit is just to drop off some literature and cards. I'm not trying to sell anything at first. I'm trying to talk. Like you, if I can talk about life rather than heavy equipment and build a positive relationship from the start, he'd be more likely to call me in the future I hope.

Clumsily staring into a computer screen while attempting to quote a tractor using software you're not familiar with is no way to sell to anybody, let alone assert that the price is the price.


</rant>
 
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/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#3  
J'd like to take a chance to respond to a few things in your rant, and get your feedback on my thoughts. I'm a new sales rep for a heavy equipment company (less than 2 months sales experience). My degree is in heavy equipment, but I have 0 "professional" sales experience. My specialty at the company is municipal sales, so mostly I'm bidding on equipment, however a relationship is extremely important to have the municipality call me first before a bid goes out.

There are degrees in heavy equipment? I just learned something new.

If you know what you're company's cost is, the margin you need in order to "eat," then your company is messing up by not allowing you to adjust your price and value add as necessary.

I get the long face conversation when selling below suggested margin with your manager/boss whatever, but there is one diagnostic question to ask: "How is your day going?"

No matter how their day is going, good, bad, indifferent, the right response to the answer is, "Great, I just wrote up a sale for such and such." God, bad, indifferent, "Great, I just closed another sale." And smile when you say it. And mean your smile. Manage the bosses expectations in terms of something is better than nothing, a sale is better than no sale (unless you sold below the price we need to eat, keep the lights on, et cetra). And still selling at a loss can work if you know the thing you sell will recap profits in service or add-on parts, or labor to set-up. Great, I undercut our competition and we'll realize a profit on X in X time frame, or I'll buy you lunch.

If your really good you can become the indispensable primadonna I became when I realized as an outside sales rep, I was outselling everybody combined. At that point I wanted more action in ownership of the company as a limited partner and I became the sales manager, which was fine because then I got to play the role of good cop and bad cop. Awesome!
 
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/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #5  
Around here there's one local company that owns several tractor dealerships all within an hour's drive of my house so I shopped all three of them and had negative experiences at two of them. At one store the salesman never cleared the tractor parts off the chair next to his desk so I could sit down, so I stood the whole time he worked up a quote. I could have easily asked to sit down but I waited to see how long it took him to offer me the chair. He never did, so I took the quote on paper and never went back. At the other store the salesman was new, so I couldn't hold too much against him, but he was too much salesman and not enough knowledgeable employee so I didn't buy from him either. I wound up at the most distant dealership from my house and bought from an experienced salesman who was pretty no-nonsense, which I generally like, and his price beat the other two by over $700. I wondered how that was possible since they all work for the same local owner. I was happy to get 0% for 72 months and have the tractor I'd been wanting for over 10 years, but the whole experience could have been better. I do hope dealerships across the country visit this site often and learn from what is posted here. Seems like that would be a smart move.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #6  
Dang, that's a long post! Couldn't read it all...
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #7  
Dang, that's a long post! Couldn't read it all...

You click on something titled "RANT" and complain about how long it is? Something tells me you couldn't read any of it, or couldn't understand any of it that you read, whichever...
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #8  
Dang, that's a long post! Couldn't read it all...

I agree with everything you said Eric. By the time Im ready for a big purchase like a tractor or car I know everthing about my purchase. I don't understand the mentality of salesman. They act as if the consumers don't have access to the internet. With all the information available there is simply no reason to be uniformed.
I am also very tired of salesmen and their shtick. I personally cant wait for cars, trucks, and tractors to be sold by Walmart and Amazon.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #9  
Eric,

I started in technical service at a equipment dealership, (IH then Case) then sold process equipment and software ranging from $50K to $500K over 32 years as an independent rep and direct sales - always #1 or 2, and I do appreciate customers that are knowledgeable in what they want, that have done their due diligence up front. They ask good questions and most of the time I know the answers, if I don't know - I get the answers, and when I leave a VM its always my contact # twice.

Many times I hear and or get a call or web request of - I looked at your web site and I want pricing without any indication of what they want, so the questions/queries of "what are you trying to do or what do you want to accomplish" then start to determine the end goal.

If you have visited 24 dealers in 2 months as you stated, it would appear you haven't defined your needs up front enough over the phone or web requests.

When a major purchase is in consideration (over $7-10K), I put together a list - make, model, features desired, research them and then create a short list of models/features and contact the various dealers/suppliers in the region and provide this information prior to a visit.

For example, the Kubota B21 - one dealer had one that I tested and liked, but the sales and management weren't that interested in selling it, so I called the owner of another dealership - told him what I wanted, and the price, and we agreed over the phone, great deal no hassle - easy.

Same thing with the ZTR - never met the dealer, bought it over the phone but I knew what I wanted. So the moral of this is if you define your requirements and a model, then simply pick a dealer/seller. The sad thing is many dealerships (like Pinetree found) are becoming more prevalent forming an oligopoly for that brand in a wide region or area.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #10  
There are two rules in sales regardless of what is being sold. Rule one is people buy from people, rule two is rule one has always been and will likely remain. Returning calls, professionalism, knowing the products you sell, understand your customer needs, these are the characteristics a person has to have to sell to another person.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #11  
You made a lot of good points Eric. I have run across many tractor dealership salespersons that have never heard of TBN. They don't realize the trend of consumers communicating and doing their "homework" before they ever set foot in the dealership. These salespeople are ignorant of the modern world, and trying to do business like it was 30 years ago. Not all of them of course, but far too many.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #12  
it is like that in every industry... doesn't matter if tractors, to doctors, to other....

there simply way to much different type of products out there on the market, to know every single little detail about this or that. and because of pure amount of stuff that goes on... the actual folks that repair equipment, are a completely different staff from the parts department, and all that staff is also completely different than the sales people staff, there is simply no way to fully communicate this or that between every member at a dealership, and then a completely different person comes in the door (customers) each are different what they can afford, what there acreage is, were they live, how there land is shaped (hills, turns, etc..) along with customer operating experience and over all usage with different implements.

researching, learning, and just getting experience can be a big thing to customers / end users.

many times will denote Tractor Attachments And Skid Steer Attachments For Any Tractor Or Skid Steer in replies due extra time taking to write out descriptions and then videos to how to setup and use different implements is already right there for person to see without a bunch of extra googling / searching on internet.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #13  
I found a differentiation between auto sales people and agriculture sales people. This observation is made with a background in truck sales and not all encompassing but the best way I can describe it is most of the ag sales guys were like "zombies". Their motivation , enthusiasm, customer connection, etc. took a back seat to "when's lunch?". These guys work on salaries so no matter what they do they'll get paid? The impression I'm left with is there seems to be no difference if someone is in the showroom or not with seemingly little importance of closing a deal as if it's just too much work. It would be interesting to contemplate on how or why this attitude prevails but the perception does nothing for sales and it seems to go way beyond spiffs, spins, incentives and bonus chits. If none of those things were in place, I'd still be motivated by the transfer as you now have an opportunity to make someone very happy. For me, that was gratification in in own right. Being a truck salesman was just plain fun. The ag guys seem opposite of that.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Eric,

If you have visited 24 dealers in 2 months as you stated, it would appear you haven't defined your needs up front enough over the phone or web requests.

I get it: you're the guy who didn't believe me when I said, I'll pay cash and I'm buying in 45 days, please work up a quote on X and put your best foot forward as you're in a competitive situation. I was straight up honest, explaining, I'm looking to purchase a 60ish hp HST cab on tractor and new attachments.

While I was more than happy to allow myself to be taken through a sales process, by the time I called or showed up in person, thanks to the internet, I already knew about your product, and I knew about what options I thought I wanted as well as a competitive price range to be expected. All you needed to do was pay attention, and follow through. As Hiltz said, I cannot wait for stuff to get sold through Amazon. My Prime membership waits.
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#16  
There are two rules in sales regardless of what is being sold. Rule one is people buy from people, rule two is rule one has always been and will likely remain. Returning calls, professionalism, knowing the products you sell, understand your customer needs, these are the characteristics a person has to have to sell to another person.

You're hired. When can you start?
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I'm still waiting on that call 55 days later.

Isn't that something? Your situation on the phone would give the impression your you're a "hot lead" and the only thing holding back a sale is making the numbers work out for you. The qualifying question you should have been asked is where you need the numbers to come in at in order to make it work for you.

That question

1) sets your expectations for me the sales guy and lets me know right off the bat if you're reasonable or insane.
2) allows me to adjust unreasonable expectations, and in doing so, allows me to develop my relationship with you and build trust.
3) allows me to pushback on insane expectations, in that I can do insane deals from time to time, but I need more time in order to find and meet the other insane counterparty.

That said, never gloat unless first asked, but then destroy them.

"Eric, why'd you by X?"

"Because I spent an hour in your office and you never followed up with a pricing and my unanswered questions answered. Did you think you were entitled to my business?"
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant #18  
There are exceptions to every negative rant...

I have nothing but praise for the guys (and gals) at Dave's Tractor in Red Bluff, California.
Dave, Lee and Rob have been honest, knowledgeable, and willing to do most anything to make the customer happy!
Lee took the time to do a detailed demo on my future tractor, took the BH off and on, and answered all my questions.

I guess you could say this is a positive rant?

Not your usual dealership, by any means:thumbsup:
 
/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Around here there's one local company that owns several tractor dealerships all within an hour's drive of my house so I shopped all three of them and had negative experiences at two of them. At one store the salesman never cleared the tractor parts off the chair next to his desk so I could sit down, so I stood the whole time he worked up a quote. I could have easily asked to sit down but I waited to see how long it took him to offer me the chair. He never did, so I took the quote on paper and never went back. At the other store the salesman was new, so I couldn't hold too much against him, but he was too much salesman and not enough knowledgeable employee so I didn't buy from him either. I wound up at the most distant dealership from my house and bought from an experienced salesman who was pretty no-nonsense, which I generally like, and his price beat the other two by over $700. I wondered how that was possible since they all work for the same local owner. I was happy to get 0% for 72 months and have the tractor I'd been wanting for over 10 years, but the whole experience could have been better. I do hope dealerships across the country visit this site often and learn from what is posted here. Seems like that would be a smart move.

FWIW, my understanding is that a consolidation of dealers took place when OEMs began insisting that dealers carry more total inventory and or parts. Dealers banded together in order to accommodate OEM demands yet individual site locations can and often do continue to operate somewhat autonomously. Anyway, good on you for shopping for a deal and waiting until you found the right price and value add.
 
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/ Lack of professionalism in Sales: a rant
  • Thread Starter
#20  
There are exceptions to every negative rant...

I have nothing but praise for the guys (and gals) at Dave's Tractor in Red Bluff, California.
Dave, Lee and Rob have been honest, knowledgeable, and willing to do most anything to make the customer happy!
Lee took the time to do a detailed demo on my future tractor, took the BH off and on, and answered all my questions.

I guess you could say this is a positive rant?

Not your usual dealership, by any means:thumbsup:

Yup, positive rant! What brands does Dave's Tractor carry and what is the single best reason why you purchased from Dave's tractor?

I bet it wasn't price, even if Dave's Tractor offered the best price. Am I wrong?
 
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