repowering skid steer

[anesthes]

I've got an old (1974 or so) Erickson CL340 skid steer. 30HP with Wisconsin VH4D engine.

I'm thinking of repowerining with a chonda 22hp v-twin engine.

I had some questions. First of all, how do you guys feel about repowering a tired 30hp with a new 22hp ?

Second was, my machine has a foot throttle. I was thinking of instead just using the governor on the 22hp and keeping it at like 2600-2800 RPM.

I found that some units appear to have been offered without a foot throttle:

Ford CL-30 Skid Steer Loader - Page 1 [#867170 / 867170]

So I suspect it was an option?

Opionions ?

I don't exactly have the specs on the pump for my machine.

-- Joe

 

[Mendonsy]

An old Wisconsin is a much better engine than any new air cooled out there. You would be better off to have a local shop hone the block out and put in new rings, pistons, and bearings.

 

[anesthes]

I actually have two of these VH4D engines if you are interested. I put them on craigslist but nobody wants them. Both run. Probably end up getting scrap value in a few weeks.

I like the newer engines. They don't overheat at low RPM, have oil coolers, better ignitions, better charging circuits and weigh 1/3 what the old wisconsin does. Technology

-- Joe

 

[art]

Suppose you change the rear a little and put in a liquid cooled engine?

 

[woodlandfarms]

I would wonder about actual HP rating. Wisconsin was probably under rated, and the Chonda over rated.

In terms of percentages, your are 25% less, which I think is pretty significant.

 

[SimS]

The Wisconsin probably has at least twice the torque of the Chonda. I would agree with Mendonsy. Additionally you won't have any conversion issues. Good Luck.

SimS

 

[anesthes]

I would wonder about actual HP rating. Wisconsin was probably under rated, and the Chonda over rated.

In terms of percentages, your are 25% less, which I think is pretty significant.

Perhaps. I found the specs on the pump last night. So it's got 3 outlets, with 15GPH each. One for the FEL, and one for each drive motor.

The FEL has a 1700psi relief, while the drive motors are 1500psi relief each.

I'm assuming the motor was sized based on two of the three circuits in full use at the same time, rather than all three at 45GPM. (which would require 49hp). Assuming 30gpm total at a running pressure of about 1600psi comes in at 26hp.

Regarding retrofitting different engines, that's pretty straightforward. 4 bolts to a flat motor plate, and 4 bolts to a hydraulic pump mount. Most any modern engine has multiple bolt patterns for pump mounts, and even differences in shaft size is easily dealt with using couplers. I'm not too concerned with physically mounting the engine and generating hydraulic pressure. Where I'm looking for advice is the HP difference vs my pump specs, and the thought of a static RPM vs the foot throttle. I could make the foot throttle work by replacing linkage with a cable but I'm curious if I could go without it.

I may end up having to go with a 26-28hp suburu/robin engine if the chonda doesn't make enough power. Though I'm considering what exactly the issue would be if the motor was slightly under powered. Normally I lose traction before I labor the engine pulling, and the hydraulics can lift way more weight than the machine can possibly handle without tipping over anyway.

-- Joe

 

[justme23005]

I actually have two of these VH4D engines if you are interested. I put them on craigslist but nobody wants them. Both run. Probably end up getting scrap value in a few weeks.

I like the newer engines. They don't overheat at low RPM, have oil coolers, better ignitions, better charging circuits and weigh 1/3 what the old wisconsin does. Technology

-- Joe

I'm looking for a VH4D for my skidsteer..

 

[anesthes]

Well if you feel like driving to NH sometime, I've got one that runs, and another that had low compression. Package deal $500.

 

[justme23005]

I'm interested, as long as the end of the crankshaft is the same.. Can you send me a picture of it, when you get a chance.. justme23005 at yahoo dot com

 

[anesthes]

It's 1 7/16" keyway, NON TAPERED.

I can post some pics soon. I'm yanking the running motor out of the skid steer this weekend or early next week, once I've got a replacement ordered.

-- Joe

 

[justme23005]

I think mine is tapered... But I'll re-check to be sure.. Why are you replacing it?

 

[Cord]

Although the HP may be close, the Wisconsin being a large displacement engine puts out way more torque. Don't shop by HP, shop by torque and you'll see that your replacement engine is way undersized.

 

[anesthes]

Although the HP may be close, the Wisconsin being a large displacement engine puts out way more torque. Don't shop by HP, shop by torque and you'll see that your replacement engine is way undersized.

That makes sense.

The Subaru/robin engines look promising. The VH4D at 1800 RPM makes 65 foot lbs peak torque. The Subaru EH90 makes over 80 foot lbs at 2000 rpm. It makes 30HP by 2500 RPM, and 35hp by 3k..

-- Joe

 

[olllotj]

I think that repowering with a lighter engine could cause balance issues for a skid steer.

 

[anesthes]

Possibly.. I could always go with a water cooled engine.

justme: Two issues, the charging system is flaky. I think it produces like 2 volts. I have a good magneto on the spare engine, but I can't swap it while the engine is in the machine because the hydraulic cooler is in the way. If I'm going to drain the system, remove the tank, etc I might as well remove the engine.

Second issue is.. or Was the starter, but I replaced that this afternoon. It was cranking very slow, until today when it stopped cranking at all.
Replacing a starter while laying on a bed of fresh horse manure.. So back to one issue.

I like the machine, it's size, how it drives. I just want a motor I can beat on for hours and hours and not worry about a cool down period or any of that nonsense. The spare motor I have has low compression, most likely from years of just shutting it off the second I was done with it. So I'd like to re-power it with a modern engine that will start in the middle of the winter, run lighting and a few fans (i.e 30 amp charging system), etc.

-- Joe

 

[Arc weld]

You need to find out the RPM rating for the hyd's. as the Wisconsin will run slower than most other engines.

 

[anesthes]

Well, idle to 2800 RPM. That's the range of the Wisconsin. The machine has a foot throttle. I was playing with it today and, you really need to use the foot throttle. If I hold the throttle at say 2800 and do things the hydraulics are just way to fast. You can't slowly inch forward or back.

-- Joe

 

[bamboozled]

I had one of these machines, briefly. Spent a lot of time getting it work ready and still sold it. I think a modern engine would be great, the Wisconsin engine in mine had relatively low compression and seemed to like to run hot after awhile.

I did some research on a replacement engine, the Wisconsin is still built but I think it runs around $4000. That's why mine got sold.

 

[anesthes]

I had one of these machines, briefly. Spent a lot of time getting it work ready and still sold it. I think a modern engine would be great, the Wisconsin engine in mine had relatively low compression and seemed to like to run hot after awhile.

I did some research on a replacement engine, the Wisconsin is still built but I think it runs around $4000. That's why mine got sold.

Yeah, the wisconsin is the big down side to these machines. The CL40 (ford branded) is basically the same frame/hydraulics as my 30 and it uses a 4 cyl water cooled ford engine (picture attached). What is interesting is that the CL40 doesn't use a foot throttle, which makes me wonder if the valves are a little different or if I'm just used to moving the sticks and then adding power.

-- Joe