Another JD 4200 that refuses to crank

[jd4200problems]

I am new to this forum.

Was searching for information to help me get my tractor back in action. A John Deere 4200 hst.

A few months ago the tractor started acting like it was not getting enough power to the starter. It would kick in the starter gear and give about a "half" a crank, and then stop.

Checked battery (excellent condition) then checked battery cables, no noticable corrosion on teminals or cable. Ended up taking out the starter and having it tested. Tested fine. Put it back in the tractor and it fired right up, and has been running perfectly normal ever since.

Then, about 2 weeks ago while working at another farm loading firewood, work time was over for the day and when I shut the tractor off it would not start again. Not even crank, nor kick in the starter gear.

Battery and cables all look good. Tested the seat switch & the neutral switch, which both appeared to work perfectly. Also tried "jumping" the switches. checked all the pto, gear lever, pedal and rear lift control positions.

Still no crank, nothing. Not even instrument panel lights (although the fuel guage works fine)

Only noticable sound is a little "click" on the starter switch relay on the fuse panel.

When I leave the key on for a few minutes, then the instrument panel lights come on.

The farm I am working at is being sold. Need to get tractor off property, but would like to drive it off rather than spend $$$$ winching it onto a trailer and taking it to the $$$DEALER$$$.

When I looked up a new OEM starter, just about fell over at the price. It must have been flown twice around the moon to cost that much.

Does anyone have access to owners manual they would be willing to share. PDF of copy of CD.

I have seen one on CD for $165 but that is way out of my league.

Am unemployed at this time and wood was free if I removed it. Need it for increasingly colder winters here in northern washington state.

Any help would be appreciated.

Right now I have the starter switch relay and am going to put a multi meter on it to see if its dead or alive.

Don't know where to go after that without a manual or schematics.

 

[sd455dan]

Is it possible that the main ground cable was bolted to a painted surface causing a virtual open at the ground termination point??

 

[CalG]

If it "clicks" but doesn't grunt, It could be a few things.

Battery condition? 12.5V and it should drop a bit when the starter is activated.
Battery terminals (CLEAN THEM! with a wire brush, on the INSIDE!) Your on and off dash lights suggest this is the issue to me.
Battery connection at the solenoid (very likely, but I'm sticking to the battery terminals)
The soleniod it's self (by pass with jumper cables if the starter motor has an external connection.

Then last, a bad armature in the starter motor. Pull the starter and see if you can get it to motor just laying on the ground. sometimes it can be just one bad segment, and turning the armature will get a good section into action.

The Fordson will start on a good day by turning the belt pully ('had to remove the starter crank handle to fit the snow plow frame;-) But the flat belt pully is still there ;-)
Maybe you can give your tractor a push or a tow to get it home?

edit

Oh the "click" is just at the instrument panel, Just "hot wire" the starter motor with a set of jumper cables. See if it goes then.
(but you may have fuel shut off issues.....;-)

 

[Coyote machine]

Welcome to TBN.
Have you checked all your fuses to make sure none are marginal or blown? The starter is unlikely to be the problem since you had it tested already. You say the battery is in excellent condition, how did you determine this? What have you done to verify the battery can perform under load? What voltage do you read at the battery when the engine does crank? How old is the battery, the tractor and how many hours on battery and tractor? Assume nothing, verify good ground to frame with a VOM, and starter solenoid, and key-switch /dash wiring. No rodent damage to any under dash wiring? Post back results.

 

[Egon]

My JD4200 also has intermittent starting problems.

The click should be the fuel solenoid.

Suggestions: remove and clean both ends of the battery cables. about five grounds on the negative frame clamp.
Fully charge battery. If possible try and start with battery charger that has a boost function on the battery.

Try it. No start, slap side of dash cowl and try again. Still no start. Pull the relays & clean. Pull fuses and clean. Pull switch and clean all contacts. Then start going through the shutdown switches

Note: all the relays are the same.

If it cranks and no start pump the priming pump lever and try again.

Say some disparaging words and try again.

Let us know the results.

 

[Mighty Dodge]

Here's the pages from the manual. Hope the attachment works.

John

 

[mfreund]

The back of the fuse box catches all kinds of dust, grass etc. Check to make sure you have clean connections for all the fuses

 

[jd4200problems]

WOW! I am amazed and humbled at the feedback. I apologize for the delay in posting a reply. Time is very limited.

I am 2nd oldest of 14 children, caretaker of wheelchair bound mother 76+ and her farm, I only have 3 to 5 hours of free time a day. Travel time and "grease" time add up, let alone cyber time for replies.

Gentlemen, you who have replied have my eternal thanx. Here's what's up....

Tractor not started yet, pulled and tested all relays, cleaned w/wire brush and di-electric grease. All tested good. Solid "click" and secondaries tested for continuity. (I am by far no electrical expert but have had "some" training in h.s. & later installing own and other's (very high power) car stereos and wiring pole barns)

Tested the neutral switch in the bell housing, tested good, and then tried starting and alternately using shims on switch and pedals (alternating switch travel)

Battery - post to post says 12.93 volts, also tried 2nd battery/brand new, same reading.

Tried adjusting all the control levers, PTO - 3Pt Lift, HTS Fwd & Bkwd pedals, gears selection (A-N-B-C), Throttle level, cruise control, FWD, and whatever else I can find.

Also did lots of Web searching and this problem seems to be VERY COMMON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Shame on John Deere at $19,500 used)

I tested the negative battery cable (thanks Mr. Egon), totally forgot that one - removed, wire brushed, di-electric greased all connections. good 2 go!

So far no observable corrosion on cables or wires, especially battery cables. Will replace ALL fuses tomorrow, along with Positive battery cable with a high quality cable (i.e. no "clamp" style & using braided copper cable - welding cables)

As soon as I got all the relays back in, tried the new ignition switch and IMMEDIATELY all the usual dash light lit up. But no starter action. But some good solid "clicks" (yeah right!)

Some new "clicks" started sounding at each turn of the key.

Decided to use jumber cables (as an assist) from battery + post to starter post, with key on. Each contact produce clicks but no starter motor activation.

Frustration then came to visit and iI felt like swearing, or hammering something. But John Deere is all plastic, right?!

Somewhere in all this, I tried the stater witch again, and there was a noticably louder click somwhere in the middle of the engine, and everything seemed to go dead, no dash lights, except the fuel guage, which ALWAYS functions. (Unlike my mother's 98 Park Avenue!!!!!)

So, I finally decided to pack it in and come back in the morning to take out the starter (again) and have it tested and/or buy a new one, instal a new positive battery cable, and then see if it starts.

Way back in the day "men" used to "put down" a farm implement that refused to function "for the community good".

These days time is money, money talks, and talk is cheep!

There may be more I have done, but for now I am not remembering it.

But please keep in mind, as "simple" as I am, I am still taking your advice seriously, and thank you all for your time and concern. Although I also am no VOM meter expert.

God Bless America AND the American Farmwer

 

[Coyote machine]

Try to eliminate starter's solenoid/and positive battery cable by running your jumper cables: negative to chassis ground and positive to starter solenoid with key on, but NOT cranked. If positive battery cable is bad or dropping voltage, touching the positive jumper cable end to the solenoid bolt may make the starter turn over. If not you may still have an intermittent or bad solenoid or flat spot on the starter internals. I mentioned before to verify good frame to ground connection, which is crucial to good starts, especially since more negative ground cables fail internally than do positive cables, in most instances.
You should see a voltage drop at the battery posts with your VOM 12VDC, or from the negative battery post to the solenoid positive while trying to crank, if the positive cable is passing current to the solenoid/starter. If there is no flow of current to the solenoid the starter will never turn. If you find that condition then replace the positive cable, not before.

 

[Egon]

I can relate to your problems. It is frustrating.

On the positive battery cable; it passes close to the exhaust and may have suffered some heat damage. There may also be corrosion under the insulation from battery fumes.

Slap the instrument cowl again but not too hard. And of course jiggle any wire you can see again. Also try stepping on the right brake while trying to start. It has a cruise control shut down on it.

Patience and perseverance. They are a nice tractor.