Dirt Moving What's the hype with HST?

[Ducati07]

I've been looking at the L39 TLB and the L45 TLB. It seems, everybody keeps talking about how great the HST performs. What is the deal with that? It just seems strange to me because I hated all of the golf course equipment with HST that I've operated over the last 25 years! If I were going down a hill driving a HST unit at full speed in transport and I just took my foot off the pedal (which I'd never do because that would be scary as heck!)...the rear tires would be off the ground and I'd be out of my seat..into the steering wheel. Even if you just let off slowly, it was uncomfortable and a back breaker. I hate the way it jumps when you let off the pedal and I hate the way it bogs down when you hit a hill. I like the good old fashion gas pedal with a clutch and a gear shifter!

Can someone please explain why they are so sought after? Do they jump when you let off? Do they bog when you hit a hill?

I know how they creep and have the HST+ and what that does but I just don't get it.

Thanks for any insight on the HST with these beasts because I can tell you...golf course equipment with HST was never done well but we were stuck with them.

Thanks again!

 

[k0ua]

The best way to answer that question is to have you attack a large pile of gravel with an HST equipped tractor for 8 to 10 hours. Move it from A to B.
Now do the same thing with a standard gear equipped model..
Tell me how your left leg feels at the the end of the 8 or 10 hours.

All of the HST tractors I have operated are much smoother than what you describe.
They are effort and time savers.
When doing precision work, they are just much easier to operate for extended periods of time.

Hydraulic shuttle equipped units will be quite a bit better than the "crash box" because it will not require all the clutching and shifting. (swatting of flies and stomping of rats)
and most guys that have them are well satisfied with them and don't have a longing for a HST unit.

But when you need to creep and change directions often nothing really beats a HST.

 

[Ducati07]

Sorry, my 1st post wasn't clear on everything. We always had a backhoe with the shuttle shift and gears so after moving tons of dirt...my left leg was just fine.

So, your saying the HST's that you've operated didn't jump (excessively) when you let off the pedal? That used to kill my back!

Thanks for the input!

 

[Ducati07]

The only HST experience I have has been with golf course maintenance equipment and not with any mid size tractors.

I'm wondering if the extra weight of the HST tractor allows it to handle better than the HST maintenance equipment.

 

[DB Pilot]

Ducati07,
I have two of them both Kubota and the old school shift and clutch. The HST's both bog down going up hill. I have a slight problem with the peddle centering up for idling and starting. Nothing serious though. For FEL bucket work they are great. Also getting into tight spaces and backing away quickly they work nice. For mowing I can do a quick 3 point turn at the end of the yard/field while with the David Brown it's a big loop and back down the line. They sell a cruise control unit for the L3800, I can't see any use for it unless you are on the road a lot. I'm not. :confused3: When pushing snow I can scoot back into my driveway quicker if I see a car coming.

I probably just got used to HST, but I like the system. :2cents:

 

[oldnslo]

HST's by design will always return to neutral I.e. slow down, some faster than others. On some models this can be slowed down on others there is very little adjustment.

For frequent speed or direction changes like zero turn mowers, skid steer loaders the HST is far more convenient.

Each transmission style has there place in life and no one tranny style is best for everything.

 

[k0ua]

Well when you say "let off of the pedal".. well if you are running pretty fast and just yank your foot off of the pedal, yes it will stop pretty fast, but why would you do that?.. you always just back off of the pedal to come to a smooth stop. No jerking on any of the 3 units I have owned. Operation is extremely smooth. When changing directions on the Kubota HST+ units you have control of "modulation" of the valving, that will alloy you to dial in a response that suits you or suits the type of work you are doing at the time. From a rapid response to a smooth response. I don't have one, because I own a Kioti, so I am stuck in the smooth response mode all the time. That is the best way I know how to describe it.. to gain more insight, I suggest if possible go drive some of the HST equipped tractors and form you own opinion. I have owned 2 gear machines and 3 HST machines, and for me and what I do, it will always be a HST equipped machine.

 

[ccsial]

The best way to answer that question is to have you attack a large pile of gravel with an HST equipped tractor for 8 to 10 hours. Move it from A to B.
Now do the same thing with a standard gear equipped model..
Tell me how your left leg feels at the the end of the 8 or 10 hours.

That's assuming you could do it in 8 to 10 hours.

I used to mow with a gear tractor. I have about 50 trees in the big yard and I had to shift a couple of times around each tree when I backed the rear mower into a tree to get close. The HST is wonderful, I'd never go back.

As far as stopping, I don't even think about it. It is pretty smooth.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Sorry, my 1st post wasn't clear on everything. We always had a backhoe with the shuttle shift and gears so after moving tons of dirt...my left leg was just fine.

So, your saying the HST's that you've operated didn't jump (excessively) when you let off the pedal? That used to kill my back!

Thanks for the input!

What kind of backhoe was it? I believe case hoe's have a torque converter in the equation and don't require clutching persay to change directions.

 

[DK35vince]

The best way to answer that question is to have you attack a large pile of gravel with an HST equipped tractor for 8 to 10 hours. Move it from A to B.
Now do the same thing with a standard gear equipped model..
Tell me how your left leg feels at the the end of the 8 or 10 hours.

There has been occasions where I have done many hours of loader work with my gear/shuttle shift.
My leg never tired. The clutch is very easy/light to push.
If I were doing 8 to 10 hours loader work on a constant, regular basis a tractor is the wrong machine for the job anyway., I would want a skid steer or small loader.

 

[corl]

Unless you are row cropping I can't imagine being without my HST after 35 years of geared tractors. Drive one. If you don't like it don't buy it. It still puts a smile on my face.

 

[ovrszd]

Kubota's HST+ has a control knob to adjust the quickness of the pedal. They stop/start pretty smooth.

Yep, HST takes HP. On a small tractor, <40hp, it takes a sizeable percentage of the engine's HP to function. That takes some getting used to.

My small mowing tractor has HST. Wouldn't want anything else.

My large Utility tractor has hydraulic shuttle. Wouldn't want anything else.

I've owned 30HP HST, 44HP gear drive and 95HP hydraulic shuttle. They all three have their place to shine. Buy to suit your needs.

 

[Ducati07]

Well when you say "let off of the pedal".. well if you are running pretty fast and just yank your foot off of the pedal, yes it will stop pretty fast, but why would you do that?..

Well, I would never do that. My point was is that they can be dangerous and painful giving a situation if you had to just let off (or yank off the pedal), even at slower speeds. Let's just say, for example, I noticed a rock in the fairway and had to stop quick so I wouldn't damage the reels....not dangerous, but can be somewhat painful. Especially when sudden slow downs happen 100's of times a day. Or some clueless golfer turns in front of me while in transport...possibly dangerous. I've had my share of accidents with my crew hitting trees and golf carts because they couldn't just yank off and hit the break. They needed to ride it out and slow down!

I think I've made a bad comparison because golf course maintenance equipment is not the same as a tractor.

Do you guys know if the GST has a shuttle control for forward and reverse as well? I've operated some larger skip loaders that had that option and it was nice for the multi-point turns.

Like you said k0ua, the only way I will truly know...is if I go drive one myself. It's just a little hard because to do that, it's 1.5 hrs one way. However, I will because I have to.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[murphy1244]

Try it and you will never go back to gears.

 

[Ducati07]

What kind of backhoe was it? I believe case hoe's have a torque converter in the equation and don't require clutching persay to change directions.

It was a 90's Ford tractor with a Bradco attached hoe. No clutch was needed to change directions. It had the shuttle shift for forward reverse with no clutch.

 

[TripleR]

Like Richard (ovrszd) I operate an HST+ and hydraulic shuttle shift M Series and both work well for their purposes.

You really have to spend some time on them to fully appreciate them as I was definitely underwhelmed by my test drive on the Kubota HST+, now I love it; love my hydraulic shuttle too; get what suits you.

 

[Beltman60]

so if you had a gear real mower and you saw a rock in front you would have to get the clutch peddle pushed in and then hit the brakes
sounds like that would be more dangerous than HST

nothing beats a gear tractor for row cropping
nothing beats HST for close tight work or repetitive back and forth movement

you would really have to get off of the HST peddle quickly to do what you are describing

 

[Ducati07]

so if you had a gear real mower and you saw a rock in front you would have to get the clutch peddle pushed in and then hit the brakes

No, there wasn't an option for that. They were all HST. The rock in the fairway was never dangerous....unless you had to answer to the mechanic who had to grind the reels after the rock was hit!

 

[Beltman60]

OK go with the golfer pulling in front of ya
same question

 

[Ducati07]

OK go with the golfer pulling in front of ya
same question

To answer your question..yes, I believe that I can stop safer and faster with a break than with HST. I may stall, but I won't flip, roll or crash. However, like I said...that's with golf course equipment and not a tractor. The problem with GC equipment is, the drive motors are on the front so when you slow down fast...the back end comes off the ground and you steer with the back end!

I think they are just too different to compare them both.