Some possibly new 4R/4M information

[JDTank]

Did everyone here know John Deere is making a 4M series tractor along with the 4R's? It's interesting that John Deere would do this. For once, they are offering an economy model in all of the same horsepower ratings as the premium models.

There is now:

4044M
4044R
4052M
4052R
4066M
4066R

Here are some youtube videos I found, they look like a salesman filming at a training course. There is footage of the new 485A backhoe, the new hitch assist feature, and the new 4 series machines.

Mounting John Deere 485a Backhoe - YouTube
Dismounting John Deere 485a Backhoe - YouTube
Hitch Lift Comparison Deere 4044m vs Kubota M100 - YouTube
John Deere 4R Series Hitch Assist - YouTube

I can already say, I don't like the look of the new loader arms, definitely not as nice as the 400CX was.

Thoughts?

 

[engine29]

I don 't think it is actually an economy model. They will not be an economy price.

 

[jd670]

Yea, My dealer had their john deere day Saturday. I didn't get to talk to any salesman as they were fielding a lot of questions from farmers. From the rumblings I heard is the new 5E series is a hit. Price and features seem to be to everyone's liking. They were supposed to have a 3R and 4R or M there, to show everyone, but the weather delayed the delivery. The price increase and tier 4 seem to have everyone upset over the 3 & 4 series. Causing a lot of people to skip over them and go to the 5E. Not sure how much of an increase it is. Didn't hear any prices being tossed around. Guess time will tell.

 

[JDTank]

Yea, My dealer had their john deere day Saturday. I didn't get to talk to any salesman as they were fielding a lot of questions from farmers. From the rumblings I heard is the new 5E series is a hit. Price and features seem to be to everyone's liking. They were supposed to have a 3R and 4R or M there, to show everyone, but the weather delayed the delivery. The price increase and tier 4 seem to have everyone upset over the 3 & 4 series. Causing a lot of people to skip over them and go to the 5E. Not sure how much of an increase it is. Didn't hear any prices being tossed around. Guess time will tell.

The last time I talked to my local salesman, I asked him for a quote on a 4x20 series machine. He did up two quotes, and I could get a 5085E, for about $5,000 more. That is a LOT more tractor, for not much more money.

John Deere should be careful. They are already extremely overpriced when it comes to CUT's, now they will just price themselves out of the market even more. How can you justify a CUT when a full blown tractor like the 5E series is almost the same price.

 

[RG1]

The last time I talked to my local salesman, I asked him for a quote on a 4x20 series machine. He did up two quotes, and I could get a 5085E, for about $5,000 more. That is a LOT more tractor, for not much more money.

John Deere should be careful. They are already extremely overpriced when it comes to CUT's, now they will just price themselves out of the market even more. How can you justify a CUT when a full blown tractor like the 5E series is almost the same price.

Well said!

I don't know what they are drinking over at JD corporate, but they aughta wait until the work day is over before they start into it.:laughing:

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I've gone to two different Deere dealers trying to get a good price on a 4066R.

Basically, I used the build your own tool on Deere's web site and priced out a cab on 4066R with an airseat, eHydro, 2nd and third spools in back and related plumbing, power beyond, and the kits for a pair of 110 wheel weights. I added a H180 loader, with float, err suspension, self leveling, third function and hose kit , skid loader adaptor, and 73" HD bucket and came up with something like $49,000ish suggested retail.

Fine, I expect some sort of discount at a dealer from the build your own price, right?

The first dealer had me bolting on all the extra valve and hoses and came in at $51k without tax or destination. Great, iLabor and more than $51K

The second dealer came up with $56K including tax, destination and everything.

I was expecting everything to be less than suggested retail.

Meanwhile, I've got a price on a Massey MF1758 with a loader, 3rd function and two extra spool for the rear at $45kish plus tax. I thought I can get a better deal by calling around (have equipment trailer, will travel).

Anyway, I'm super disappointed in the tractor shopping experience.

 

[JMER817]

Someone missed something here. You should get an easy 10% off the build it price from the website.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Well, I figured out what the problem is with my pricing. If you are sitting on the 4066R page and click build your own, the build your own site launches with a 4052R, not a 4066R.

Anyway, coming into the build your own site another way, I was able to select a 4066R. The tractor alone came to a SRP of $48,132 and a H180 loader $7,301 for a total of $55,433.00.

This makes the best dealer quote I received of $51K without tax, destination or labor to install extras at least $5,500 more than the Massey MF1758 that has a engine that runs much quieter than the 4066R and is effectively a wash insofar as capabilities of the 4066R.

What am I missing?

 

[arlen4720]

Well, I figured out what the problem is with my pricing. If you are sitting on the 4066R page and click build your own, the build your own site launches with a 4052R, not a 4066R.

Anyway, coming into the build your own site another way, I was able to select a 4066R. The tractor alone came to a SRP of $48,132 and a H180 loader $7,301 for a total of $55,433.00.

This makes the best dealer quote I received of $51K without tax, destination or labor to install extras at least $5,500 more than the Massey MF1758 that has a engine that runs much quieter than the 4066R and is effectively a wash insofar as capabilities of the 4066R.

What am I missing?

I'm sure that the Massey is a fine tractor. I don't know all the specs of the 1758, but the Deere has 10% more HP, has planetary final drives, and has the ability to control the 3 point AND inch the tractor forward and reverse from the rear fender controls. It just comes down to what features are important to you, and how much you want to pay for them. The way it seems to me, is that there is no such thing as an "apples to apples" comparison. There are always differences in features that some people like and want to pay for, and others like the features of a different brand.
Does the Massey have a self leveling loader?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

The Massey uses cast iron axle housings, and the 1758, an HST, uses a bull-style final drive. The 1759, that uses the same 59 hp engine as the 1758 but uses a syncro shutter gear tranny uses a planetary final drive in the rear. Massey claims that the HST doesn't need it because hydros are more forgiving. Okay, but I bet the real reason is that they do not have a planetary final drive axle that bolts up to their eHydro since I think Massey wants to win the spec-sheet bench race. While the Massey does not have the creep it does have a PTO on/off button the corner of the rear fender, also a useful feature. Engine wise, the Massey has slightly higher lifts specs on the three point but Deere does claim to have more power. Without a scientific test, I think it is close enough to a wash.

For me, a significant difference is how much quieter the Masseys are. Check out the video of this entry model at about the 1 minute mark as an example of how quiet the 1700 series is (the video is a simple demo of their eHydro transmission and cruise control).

Anyway, you're right: there are differences in this class from machine to machine. I wish these guys offered a well thought out CVT transmission. Case has a 50 hp tractor with a CVT, but it is too small for my needs.

 

[Deerherd]

If you are considering spending this amount of money you should look at the LSP7030 CPS. It's a lot less money than the Deere and not much more than the Massey. It may be too big for your needs with 88 hp but it's still a tier 3 machine. Letting them work the kinks out of tier 4 before jumping in might be a consideration.

It comes standard with 3 rear remotes, power shuttle, 40f/20r speeds, electronic hi/lo, 540/750/1000 PTO and can lift 3500 lbs on the FEL. It also comes standard with front and rear wipers, radio, lights etc that others charge extra for.

It's a lot of bang for the buck but may be more tractor than you want. Good luck in your search!

 

[buickanddeere]

I don 't think it is actually an economy model. They will not be an economy price.

Priced in there brand new to compete with everybody else . The high Deere price if from the cheap skates who expect to find a 10yr old low hour Deere for the same price as a 10yr old low hr red, blue or orange machine.

 

[buickanddeere]

The last time I talked to my local salesman, I asked him for a quote on a 4x20 series machine. He did up two quotes, and I could get a 5085E, for about $5,000 more. That is a LOT more tractor, for not much more money.

John Deere should be careful. They are already extremely overpriced when it comes to CUT's, now they will just price themselves out of the market even more. How can you justify a CUT when a full blown tractor like the 5E series is almost the same price.

Research. Design, engineering , marketing, tooling, buildings, labour, management, legal, insurance for any size tractor is within a few dollars at most. Other than the extra raw materials
. There is little difference in building a 3series or 5 series tractor. Goes the same for highway vehicles. That A 4x4 crew cab pickup costs within a few dollars of an V6 AWD SUV selling for 2/3 or the price.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

If you are considering spending this amount of money you should look at the LSP7030 CPS. It's a lot less money than the Deere and not much more than the Massey. It may be too big for your needs with 88 hp but it's still a tier 3 machine. Letting them work the kinks out of tier 4 before jumping in might be a consideration.

It comes standard with 3 rear remotes, power shuttle, 40f/20r speeds, electronic hi/lo, 540/750/1000 PTO and can lift 3500 lbs on the FEL. It also comes standard with front and rear wipers, radio, lights etc that others charge extra for.

It's a lot of bang for the buck but may be more tractor than you want. Good luck in your search!

I could not find anything through a Goggle search on a LSP7030 CPS. Who makes it?

I'm really keen on either a hydro or CVT transmission because I plan to use snow plow on the loader, a root grapple on the loader, and a bucket for a lot of loader work. In the back I plan to use a box grader with a top and tilt kit as well as a snow blower in the winter.

If I thought I could get away without blowing out the clutches in a syncro-shuttle in a hurry, I'd take a hard, long look at a used 2012 Deere 5083e since I've seen them offered with low hours for less than 40K.

 

[RG1]

I could not find anything through a Goggle search on a LSP7030 CPS. Who makes it?

I'm really keen on either a hydro or CVT transmission because I plan to use snow plow on the loader, a root grapple on the loader, and a bucket for a lot of loader work. In the back I plan to use a box grader with a top and tilt kit as well as a snow blower in the winter.

If I thought I could get away without blowing out the clutches in a syncro-shuttle in a hurry, I'd take a hard, long look at a used 2012 Deere 5083e since I've seen them offered with low hours for less than 40K.

Here ya go-
P7030C « LS Tractor USA

 

[charleyfarmall]

The 4R tractors are relatively expensive and you can get a 5E for very little more. The difference between a 5083E and my 4520 was not that much. I chose the 4520 because I didn't "need" the bigger tractor, and the cab and electronic controls on the 4520 were what I really wanted, and mowing/ square baling with HST is the cat's meow.

I looked at the Massey and like them. The lack of self leveling loader was what kept me solidly with Deere. I think the Massey is a pretty nice machine. Deere's eHydro is nicer. The DynaQPS is fairly nice if you are after a standard transmission. The bigger Massey has a longer wheelbase which I really would have liked. The cab is pretty roomy too.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I looked real hard as Massey before purchasing my deere. It was a lot of tractor for the money. The massey loader cap was what swayed me to deere.
I think deere in general has higher loader specs with Kioti and LS being slightly higher. Since loader cap is my #1 that's how I prioritized.

Matt

 

[jenkinsph]

Research. Design, engineering , marketing, tooling, buildings, labour, management, legal, insurance for any size tractor is within a few dollars at most. Other than the extra raw materials
. There is little difference in building a 3series or 5 series tractor. Goes the same for highway vehicles. That A 4x4 crew cab pickup costs within a few dollars of an V6 AWD SUV selling for 2/3 or the price.

I agree and think these are very valid points to consider when buying any machinery. The small machine has less raw material in it but most of the fabrication is the same. If you set a small piston next to a slightly larger piston and compare them the machining required to produce them is the same, but one is slightly larger than the other. More raw material.

 

[danedgington]

Last year when I got our 4720, I was offered a 5083E at a lower price, however, it just didn't work out well with what we needed and where we are. We really needed the compact size....oh and the 4720 included the radio, would have had to add that to the 5083e....