Ballast Weight Question

[Underdog57]

I have the LS 4041H with the LL 4101 Loader. The lift capacity at full height @ pivot pins is 2638#. My rear tires (R4 17.5 L x 24) are loaded with Rim Guard, according to the chart that adds 588# per tire x 2 = 1176#. The question is I am going to build a concrete counter weight (I am in the concrete business = cheap concrete) should I make a 1500# block or should I make one 1000# or somewhere in between. I will be doing mostly FEL work with bucket or forks so I will be leaving the weight on the tractor most of the summer. If I don't have a lot of weight on the loader will it be a problem to have 1000 - 1500# hanging on the 3 pt all the time ? My 3 pt lift capacity is 2665#

 

[HillCountry]

Did you get an owner's manual that specifies how much ballast for the R4041 loader?

I'm curious about the LS's. I was looking at an R3039. The LS dealer told me that it was fine using the loader at full rated capacity without ANY ballast or loaded tires. It caught my attention and I questioned it, but he stuck by that answer... basing it on the lower center of gravity and loader structure.

 

[Underdog57]

All it says in the manual is "add rear ballast or rear weight to the tractor to compensate for the load" . I guess between the loaded tires & the counter weight I should be at FEL max lift cap. I was thinking about a 2' x 2' x 2' concrete block (approx 1200#) that would put me at 2376#. Just wondered what everybody thought.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

How does the machine handle the loader without the ballast on the 3pth?I would actually go to the higher end of your weight capacity of the hitch especially if your machine is 2wd. Remember the weight on the 3pt is trying to rotate around the rear axle and therefore takes weight off of the front axle. I made a 1700lb counterweight for my JD thinking that it would be plenty since it was approx 1/2 of the 3pth rating and I am still able to pick the rear tires off the ground if I get into some wet clay with the bucket on. I also have rimguard in the rear tires. Its not like your going to have to much weight on the hitch especially if the counterweight is compact and doesn't hang to far out back.

 

[Underdog57]

I just got this tractor late last fall so I really haven't worked it to hard yet, just pushing snow it handled good with a 630# blade on the back. Thanks for the input, I might make it bigger now.

 

[TSO]

I never used my 4047 with loaded tires, but when I had my HD 8' blade hanging off the back, I could max out the loader without lifting the rear tires. Unless I dropped the full load too fast, then it bounced the tires a bit.

Anyhow, with your tires already loaded, you might not need the full weight of that ballast box. But, I don't see any reason why more weight would hurt anything, so going with the heavier box would probably work out.

 

[California]

Just a thought if you will cast a counterweight - You might want to build the form around a trailer hitch receiver that sticks out the back of the weight and is welded to attach inside the weight to the 3-point pins at the front of the weight. Also consider some vertical plastic pipes embedded, to carry shovels, chain, etc in the counterweight. Or maybe even imbed some bolts to attach a toolbox later.

Or - make the weight flat on top with a couple of pins sticking up. So later you can detach the weight, and use your loader to set a second weight on top of it before reattaching it. There might be some way to hang a second weight off the back of it, too, where it does the most good.

There's lots of creative possibilities here beyond just plain concrete.

 

[stuckmotor]

California,
It's muddy here and I get stuck far too often with a bale of hay on the forks. I'm considering ALL of your suggestions for a much needed rear weight.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The more counter weight that you can put on the 3 PH arms, the less load you have on the front axles. 2000# hung between the lift arms (concrete block) does less than a 1200# piece of equipment mounted on the 3 PH since the lever force with it being far back amplifies the weight. If I were you and planned to lift some heavy loads (as much as the FEL will lift), I would make the counterweight at least 2/3 of the lift capacity and perhaps as much as 3/4. This will keep most of the stress off the smaller front axle and tires.
The dealer that said to not put any ballast or counter weight on is F.O.S. and likely looking for some future repair work to your tractor. Ballast also makes the tractor more stable on hills as even slight inclines can cause tipping with a full FEL load.

 

[k0ua]

The more counter weight that you can put on the 3 PH arms, the less load you have on the front axles. 2000# hung between the lift arms (concrete block) does less than a 1200# piece of equipment mounted on the 3 PH since the lever force with it being far back amplifies the weight. If I were you and planned to lift some heavy loads (as much as the FEL will lift), I would make the counterweight at least 2/3 of the lift capacity and perhaps as much as 3/4. This will keep most of the stress off the smaller front axle and tires.
The dealer that said to not put any ballast or counter weight on is F.O.S. and likely looking for some future repair work to your tractor. Ballast also makes the tractor more stable on hills as even slight inclines can cause tipping with a full FEL load.

+1 on this. That dealer must have never actually operated a tractor with a FEL full of heavy material. At least not on uneven ground. My manual for my DK35se calls for 1010 lbs on the 3pt. the slightly larger DK40se calls for 1100 on the 3pt. I believe you need at least that 1100 on the 3pt for that tractor. As noted you could get by with less weight if it sticks out, as in a heavy blade or a bush hog that sticks out 6 foot.

 

[ovrszd]

First, I'm Pro QH so take my advice with that in mind. I'd buy/install a QH. Then I'd build a heavy ballast weight, 1500lb or more. I'd build it compatable with the QH. Then without getting off the tractor I could pick it up and do FEL work, then set it down when done. That way you aren't carrying the weight around for no reason.

Trust me on this. If you build it to manually hook to your 3pt you'll carry it all the time unless you need the 3pt for something else. Us humans are naturally lazy.

 

[Gary Fowler]

First, I'm Pro QH so take my advice with that in mind. I'd buy/install a QH. Then I'd build a heavy ballast weight, 1500lb or more. I'd build it compatable with the QH. Then without getting off the tractor I could pick it up and do FEL work, then set it down when done. That way you aren't carrying the weight around for no reason.

Trust me on this. If you build it to manually hook to your 3pt you'll carry it all the time unless you need the 3pt for something else. Us humans are naturally lazy.

I second that, when I put on an implement, it stays on till I need a different implement on. The 3 PH is never empty but it is just about always ballasted for max FEL loading. Mostly my needs are for the tiller @ only 850# or my disk at 1500. If neither of those are needed, it is the 2000+ bush hog that is attached. I don't think it has ever been empty except when travelling between implement to attach something different.

 

[murphy1244]

First, I'm Pro QH so take my advice with that in mind. I'd buy/install a QH. Then I'd build a heavy ballast weight, 1500lb or more. I'd build it compatable with the QH. Then without getting off the tractor I could pick it up and do FEL work, then set it down when done. That way you aren't carrying the weight around for no reason.

Trust me on this. If you build it to manually hook to your 3pt you'll carry it all the time unless you need the 3pt for something else. Us humans are naturally lazy.

And make a built in stand with wheels

 

[California]

... buy/install a QH. ... build it compatable with the QH.

And make a built in stand with wheels

Yes!!! To both. :thumbsup:

As for dimensions - I think I would build the attachment points on the front rather than on the sides of the concrete block, to get the center of gravity as far back as far as possible. And also put the center of gravity as low as possible to help resist rollover.

Getting the center of gravity low might include extending the weight out to the sides beyond the width of the quick hitch, but not so far the weight gets in the way for working in tight spaces - in a stable, etc. And maybe make the back corners rounded like a forklift's counterweight to improve maneuverability.

You will occasionally need to lift the weight so it doesn't drag on uneven ground, so at least for my small tractors I wouldn't build one that hangs much lower than the 3-point arms. (which can be lowered to touch the ground). This aspect might not be as important for a larger tractor that has greater lift height.

 

[Underdog57]

Thanks for all the great ideas! I think I am going back to the drawing board!

 

[Underdog57]

Thanks for all the great ideas! I think I am going back to the drawing board!

http://www.palletforks.com/media/ca...ay_spear_3_point_attachment_with_sleeve_5.jpg


I was thinking of using this bale spear and sticking it in a treated wood box with 2 pcs 4x4 attached to the bottom for skids (pallet forks) sticking a 2" receiver tube out the back, cutting the bale spear to size, do some welding to tie the spears & 2" tube together, tie some rebar together & fill it with concrete leaving the level down about 4" so I'll have a basket for tools, chains, saws, etc... Whadda ya think? The bale spear is rated for 3000#

 

[GManBart]

Did you get an owner's manual that specifies how much ballast for the R4041 loader?

I'm curious about the LS's. I was looking at an R3039. The LS dealer told me that it was fine using the loader at full rated capacity without ANY ballast or loaded tires. It caught my attention and I questioned it, but he stuck by that answer... basing it on the lower center of gravity and loader structure.

The dealer must have never actually used the FEL to lift anything heavy! When I built my counterweight, I started with a block of steel that weighed exactly 1,300lbs on the scale at the scrap yard. We put it in the back of my neighbors dump truck and brought it to his house, then dumped it onto a row of boards. I got my LS with the pallet forks, and nothing on the 3pt....I could lift the block, but the rear tires were very light, and just slowing to stop would have them lifting off the ground. There is NO way you can come close to lifting the rated capacity without a fair amount of counterweight on it. We added more steel (drawbar, legs, etc) to the block so that it weighs probably somewhere between 1,350 and 1,400lbs now. I can finally max the loader without raising the rear tires. In fact, I can put the forks under something heavy enough that it won't lift it, and the relief valve kicks in.

I wouldn't mind if my CW was 1,500lbs, but I don't think it would work any better than what I have.

 

[cartod]

+1 on the QH. Besides making it easy to change out implements it also extends the weight even further to the rear, which in turn provides more ballast with less weight.

 

[CalG]

The more counter weight that you can put on the 3 PH arms, the less load you have on the front axles. 2000# hung between the lift arms (concrete block) does less than a 1200# piece of equipment mounted on the 3 PH since the lever force with it being far back amplifies the weight. If I were you and planned to lift some heavy loads (as much as the FEL will lift), I would make the counterweight at least 2/3 of the lift capacity and perhaps as much as 3/4. This will keep most of the stress off the smaller front axle and tires.
The dealer that said to not put any ballast or counter weight on is F.O.S. and likely looking for some future repair work to your tractor. Ballast also makes the tractor more stable on hills as even slight inclines can cause tipping with a full FEL load.

You might want to consider this topic a bit more carefully. There are some situations that added rear ballast will actually INCREASE front axle loading.

That is, any time the loader effort pulls the rear wheel off the ground! And this can happen more often than you may think. It is a very common occurance when reaching downhill to lift or pull something up and out.

If trying to lift a ton, with a ton of ballast out back, the total load is now two tons as soon as the the wheels lift. Where as, without the ballast, the rear wheels will lift at the one ton load.

Of course the hydraulic overload bypass will set a maximum lift capacity, And should be the main line of defense against front axle over load. But that limitation does not account for "unusual attitude" situations.

Those that live "down country" in the flat lands, might be able to disregard this consideration, and hang all the ballast they may have available. But, for those of us in hill country, don't be fooled into believing you are always doing your front axle a favor by hanging weight off the back end.

With that, I like several hundred pounds out back most all the time. seems like the tractor is more grounded that way ;-)

 

[ovrszd]

You might want to consider this topic a bit more carefully. There are some situations that added rear ballast will actually INCREASE front axle loading.

That is, any time the loader effort pulls the rear wheel off the ground! And this can happen more often than you may think. It is a very common occurance when reaching downhill to lift or pull something up and out.

If trying to lift a ton, with a ton of ballast out back, the total load is now two tons as soon as the the wheels lift. Where as, without the ballast, the rear wheels will lift at the one ton load.

Of course the hydraulic overload bypass will set a maximum lift capacity, And should be the main line of defense against front axle over load. But that limitation does not account for "unusual attitude" situations.

Those that live "down country" in the flat lands, might be able to disregard this consideration, and hang all the ballast they may have available. But, for those of us in hill country, don't be fooled into believing you are always doing your front axle a favor by hanging weight off the back end.

With that, I like several hundred pounds out back most all the time. seems like the tractor is more grounded that way ;-)

We've argued this point repeatedly in the past. But you are correct. As soon as the rears begin to lighten that weight is transferred to the fronts. This muliplication continues until the FEL is maxxed out or the loaded FEL won't raise off the ground. I carry a 1200lb BB and often have my rears off the ground. When that happens I've transferred that 1200lb to the fronts.

Some will dispute this concept.