Where do you carry your gun on your tractor?

[9973720wb19]

TripleR, et. al.:

just so you understand...my intention was not to bring up or question right or wrong. I just never felt the need to carry a gun (have some in my house if needed) so I was just trying to see if I was missing something. maybe some of you live in bear country and need it for that...I don't know nor really care to make judgment ...just trying to understand the "need" not the "morality principle". to me, it would seem to get in the way of what i'm doing and not worth the efforts of having to carry it around when i'm working. In the end, I don't carry a gun for the same reason some of you do...because it's what I want to do...I'm cool with that.

 

[Coyote machine]

CM, now there I was trying to get this thread back on the rails when you have to stir it up. Ok, I'll play. First of all I don't carry to make others(other than my family) feel safe. What I am doing, whether on my tractor or walking into Burger King is perfectly legal and none of your business. I am not going to take any heat from the non-carry crowd because this is the last time I will address the issue publicly. I already tried to explain all of this to you earlier, but yep, wasted my time because you didn't even listen to one thing I had to say. You took the thread and made it do a 90 degree turn simply because it bothers you that there are those that carry on their tractor and decided to poke fun. Man do I feel dirty getting down to your level to argue...that was a mistake and it won't happen again.

I'm sorry, did I miss something, you tried to explain all this to me earlier? Are you talking about a different thread? If so, I only vaguely remember a conversation about firearms, which seems to be a constantly recurring theme here on TBN. I try hard to get people who may take their own POV as being the only one worth considering to LIGHTEN UP. If the it's none of your business answer to trying to add some humor to a discussion is too much to handle, it doesn't speak well to one's communication skills.
I like many who don't carry concealed weapons do feel that those who do often operate on the premise that whatever they do is no one else's business, and that may not help your cause of wanting the rest of us to just shut up and go away. I for one probably ought not to carry a concealed weapon; but I've been totally forthcoming in this discussion and IMHO have not derailed this thread. I have discussed not wanting nor feeling the need to carry on my tractor, and like most all threads of this kind they diverge into other aspects of gun ownership. Whether you or anyone else agrees with me or not is aside the point. Threads like these are about discussion, conversations about guns. And you don't have to feel 'dirty' by attempting to have a conversation with me, or anyone else who may be trying to see your POV.
In fact, since what I mentioned happened to me recently I have been more inclined to consider having a hand gun or carrying one, but as I detailed I might not be the best candidate for same. So I would like to know how someone like me is supposed to bring about a higher level of safety given my fears and concerns about what could happen if I were to own a handgun for protection?

Yep, and its getting worse.

I agree completely, hence my concern about what to do?

Well after reading this, I agree with you now that you should never ever carry a concealed firearm.

Why? Because I might be inclined to use it to protect myself? How is my mixed feelings about owning/carrying a handgun any different than why you guys may choose to do so; is there not fear that there could be unintended negative consequences when/if you felt forced to use deadly force? There seems, to me, to be cases like that happening all the time these days, where the bad guy gets off and the armed citizen following the rules gets slapped by the legal system? Am I mistaken in this assessment?

 

[TripleR]

Coyote Machine, I know you were not addressing me, but on the chance you are serious with this statement, "Why? Because I might be inclined to use it to protect myself? How is my mixed feelings about owning/carrying a handgun any different than why you guys may choose to do so; is there not fear that there could be unintended negative consequences when/if you felt forced to use deadly force? There seems, to me, to be cases like that happening all the time these days, where the bad guy gets off and the armed citizen following the rules gets slapped by the legal system? Am I mistaken in this assessment?

Go back and read your original post reference your encounter. No one who has had the proper training and legal understanding of the law and what goes on in court not to mention common sense will EVER escalate a situation. I have been trained out the ears on "Use of Force" "Continuum of Force" and you simply do not escalate, you attempt to deescalate, diffuse any such situation and if at all possible, disengage and leave the area as safety permits. Anyone of several people on here could write several pages on what all you did wrong in your encounter.

My intention is not to be rude, but what you did goes against everything taught in any decent concealed carry course and simply boggles my mind.

 

[murphy1244]

Coyote Machine, I know you were not addressing me, but on the chance you are serious with this statement, "Why? Because I might be inclined to use it to protect myself? How is my mixed feelings about owning/carrying a handgun any different than why you guys may choose to do so; is there not fear that there could be unintended negative consequences when/if you felt forced to use deadly force? There seems, to me, to be cases like that happening all the time these days, where the bad guy gets off and the armed citizen following the rules gets slapped by the legal system? Am I mistaken in this assessment?

Go back and read your original post reference your encounter. No one who has had the proper training and legal understanding of the law and what goes on in court not to mention common sense will EVER escalate a situation. I have been trained out the ears on "Use of Force" "Continuum of Force" and you simply do not escalate, you attempt to deescalate, diffuse any such situation and if at all possible, disengage and leave the area as safety permits. Anyone of several people on here could write several pages on what all you did wrong in your encounter.

My intention is not to be rude, but what you did goes against everything taught in any decent concealed carry course and simply boggles my mind.

Well said. You can't call that self defense at all.

 

[dakotagun]

Coyote, you've described a situation many have been in - and we're getting more exposure to it every day. Having a weapon doesn't mean you should use it; doesn't mean you wont get into another of these situations and come out on the wrong end. But, if it's your life that is being threatened, deadly force may be your only option for survival. Maybe I don't draw it, maybe I have an opportunity and choose to use it - fully expecting the consequences and scrutiny and second-guessing that will go on for a long time. No one can predict how they'd act if in a life-threatening situation. I've seen big guys soil themselves. So NOT carrying isn't a sign of anything - it's a rational decision that most should probably make. Just like carrying isn't a sign of anything, either. It's a personal choice, one that should be carefully weighed. And if you choose to, the burden of training, practicing, and learning is upon you, too. Otherwise, you're just a liability to yourself and others, and probably more so than the 'bad guy'.

 

[dakotagun]

having said that - I don't think I've carried while on the tractor digging dirt or mowing grass. but, I do/will if running around on my atv so some of these ideas are interesting (need to find a scabbard). thanks.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I get that the bad guys don't adhere to any rules and the justice system is often useless. Do you feel that you are likely to be attacked by one of them at any time wherever you go, and that by concealed packing you will have a better outcome than if you weren't?
As an example, less than a year ago I was at the movies with my wife and when driving out of the lot a meth head on a skateboard got between me and the car going in the opposite direction as if this was OK. I corralled the idiot with my car, and he had nowhere to go but a sidewalk or roof pillar. He fell down, hit my fender with the board and as I was getting out to give him a piece of my mind smashed me above my eye with the board and tried to leave the scene. I got back in the car and tracked him down and ran him off the sidewalk into the bushes at the end of the lot, never touching him with the car. He got up and pushed the door closed while I struggled to get out of the car. He smashed my side rear window and disappeared before I could see where he went.
Now, if I been packing, chances are I would have changed the outcome, but not likely for the better for me. I ended up at the emergency room having my wife drive me, and when the cops finally showed
they wanted my medical records including mental health records. I refused, they went away, I ended up with a $1200+ medical bill from the ER and no follow-up from the police. In fact, the first thing they wanted to know was if I had hit the boarder with my car, to which I said: if I wanted to hit him he'd be on a slab and they could then do their chalk outline and clean up the mess at the scene they never bothered to show up at less then 500' from their station downtown.

At times after that, having had my flip house next door robbed sometime while I was away during that summer, and then the above incident occurring on a night out with my wife I thought seriously about getting a handgun but truthfully have more fear of using it when it might come back at me through being sued by some lowlife trespassing and then crying fowl after trying to rob me. Know what I mean?

So you used your car as a weapon, but question why others carry?

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote Machine, I know you were not addressing me, but on the chance you are serious with this statement, "Why? Because I might be inclined to use it to protect myself? How is my mixed feelings about owning/carrying a handgun any different than why you guys may choose to do so; is there not fear that there could be unintended negative consequences when/if you felt forced to use deadly force? There seems, to me, to be cases like that happening all the time these days, where the bad guy gets off and the armed citizen following the rules gets slapped by the legal system? Am I mistaken in this assessment?

Go back and read your original post reference your encounter. No one who has had the proper training and legal understanding of the law and what goes on in court not to mention common sense will EVER escalate a situation. I have been trained out the ears on "Use of Force" "Continuum of Force" and you simply do not escalate, you attempt to deescalate, diffuse any such situation and if at all possible, disengage and leave the area as safety permits. Anyone of several people on here could write several pages on what all you did wrong in your encounter.

My intention is not to be rude, but what you did goes against everything taught in any decent concealed carry course and simply boggles my mind.

I appreciate your reply and don't take it as offensive. But I'm somewhat confused by some of what you said. I was not carrying a weapon, had been scared poo-less by the boarder doing what he did, when I was blindsided by him coming out of nowhere, and my wife kept telling me to look out, to and for what I had no clue, until I saw him a foot from my driver's side window between me and another car, in the opposite lane going the opposite direction, rolled down my window enough to be able to yell for him to get out of the road, when of course he yelled back the typical meth-head BS about where I should go.
My intent was to stop him which I accomplished and get out to speak to him about how he could have been killed and how stupid doing something like that in the dark actually was.
Granted I didn't know for sure he was a meth-head until a doctor I went to for unrelated issue told me the guy had come to him demanding drugs for supposedly being hurt by a driver; which was total nonsense and the doc threw him out of his office. Now interestingly enough, I was just viewing another gun thread about licensing of carry permits being made legal in Illinois. BUT here in VT I could have been carrying a handgun, could have had it concealed, and could have brandished it, or worse used it to defend myself, all within the current law in this state?! I get the whole using a weapon to de-escalate a situation, but here again a lot of discussion has been going on about warning shots and police methods being empty entire clip, go for center of mass vs. trying to wound to take into custody.
So as un-schooled Joe citizen, with no specific training, what is it I should have done differently? And if someone wants to start or have me start a new thread to discuss this let me know.

Thanks,

CM

 

[ncnurseryman]

My thoughts too. That fella escalated the situation.

 

[ncnurseryman]

CM. In hindsight you should have let the jerk continue on. By yelling at him, getting out to confront him etc., that's escalating the situation. But I know it easier said than done.