1st post looking at a Kioti CK35 HST

[Gittyup]

I stand by my advice. Has worked for me moving tons of material.

 

[kiotiken]

The point is that the CK and L35 are similar in size, and the Kubota weighs 1,000lbs more....it's built that much heavier, because it has to be. The CK isn't remotely as heavy in the front end/axles as a TLB would be...


That's great. It still doesn't change that Kioti specifies 700lbs on the 3pt for FEL operations. In fact, the current TL130 manual makes a clear differentiation between counterweight, and tire weights/fluid. There is a paragraph that says something like "the correct counterweight must be used for safe loader operation". The next paragraph says that adding weight to the tires will increase traction, and can make for more efficient loader operation.

First off, you're comparing a CK to the wrong Kubota TBL, it compares to a B26, if you want to compare something to an L39 (they stopped making an L35 in 2004), look at the DK series.

I do remember my manual saying that proper ballast was required for the KL130 (not optional) and I'm positive my manual says it is required for my KL401. The wording on kioti.com doesn't have the word required bolded and in all caps, but I do think that's what is meant; "Ballast Box attached to 3-Point 700 lbs" - KL130 Front End Loader | Kioti Tractors

There's no doubt that loaded tires are enough to hold the rear end of that tractor on the ground with nothing on the 3pt, regardless of how you use the loader, and I highly recommend loading them. I used my CK30 regularly with nothing other than loaded tires and never felt unstable, but I'm not sure how much extra wear the front axle is taking. The DK's feel very light with only loaded tires and I've picked the rear tires off the ground with a 400 lbs box blade on the 3pt. Once you get to that point, you have all the weight of the load you're picking up + the entire weight of the tractor, loaded tires and implement riding on the front axle, you don't need to be an engineer to know that's not a good thing. I would get in the habit of having 700 lbs on the 3pt AND I would have the tires loaded for times when you don't.

The only way to take weight off the front is to add it to the back and the only way to do that is with ballast on the 3pt. The KL130 extends far out in front of the CK's which is great for some things but puts the weight that much further in front of the axle. I do think you should ballast it properly, but I have to admit I don't always practice what I preach.

 

[murphy1244]

The 401 Loader specs say's 1047 lbs counter ballast @ hitch point.

 

[GManBart]

First off, you're comparing a CK to the wrong Kubota TBL, it compares to a B26, if you want to compare something to an L39 (they stopped making an L35 in 2004), look at the DK series.

I figured it doesn't have to be a current model to make a comparison....which is why I used the L35. The B26 is smaller, has less power, etc, etc. Compare dimensions, and power, and the L35 and CK35 are pretty close. Within an inch in wheelbase (B26 is 4-5" less), within a few inches in total length with both FEL, and BH (B26 is much shorter), etc.

The CK35 weighs 5,000lbs with FEL and BH where the L35 weighs 6,000lbs with FEL and BH....and they have similar very similar dimensions physically. That means the L35 has to be built much stronger to add all that weight.

In the end, everybody can do as they please

 

[Fuggley]

I figured it doesn't have to be a current model to make a comparison....which is why I used the L35. The B26 is smaller, has less power, etc, etc. Compare dimensions, and power, and the L35 and CK35 are pretty close. Within an inch in wheelbase (B26 is 4-5" less), within a few inches in total length with both FEL, and BH (B26 is much shorter), etc. The CK35 weighs 5,000lbs with FEL and BH where the L35 weighs 6,000lbs with FEL and BH....and they have similar very similar dimensions physically. That means the L35 has to be built much stronger to add all that weight. In the end, everybody can do as they please

You are comparing two entirely different classes of tractor.
Factors to consider: a) L35 loader is not removable... you take it everywhere. b) L35 was marketed and sold as commercial-grade machine c) the L35 was a fair amount more expensive than a standard utility or compact tractor of similar size.
It is interesting that you had to choose a commercial grade tractor for comparison though.

 

[kiotiken]

IMO, the B26 is closer to CK series. The CK35 is the same as the CK27 with a bigger engine so you can't just pick one close in hp. CK is about 5195 lbs with FEL and BH to the Kubota's 4000 lbs. I disagree that the Kubota TBL's are heavier than the similar Kioti TBL's and therefore heavier duty. There's more than just weight that goes into heavy duty.


B26 - 26hp:
Weight: 4,001 lbs [1814 kg] (with loader/backhoe)
Wheelbase: 62.2 inches [157 cm]
Length: 149 inches [378 cm]
Width: 54 inches [137 cm]


CK27 -28 hp:
Weight: 3,161 lbs [1433 kg] (CK27)
3,117 lbs [1413 kg] (CK27HST)
Wheelbase: 66.1 inches [167 cm]
Length: 122.2 inches [310 cm]
Width: 54.6 inches [138 cm]

 

[GManBart]

You are comparing two entirely different classes of tractor.
Factors to consider: a) L35 loader is not removable... you take it everywhere. b) L35 was marketed and sold as commercial-grade machine c) the L35 was a fair amount more expensive than a standard utility or compact tractor of similar size.
It is interesting that you had to choose a commercial grade tractor for comparison though.

Yes, that's exactly what I was comparing....to point out the differences between something made for heavy FEL use, and something made for light FEL use (again, by comparison). Similar size machines, and even though you say the Kioti is heavily made, it's still 1,000lbs lighter than a true TLB of similar dimensions. That 20% increase in weight went into things like bigger/heavier axles, etc, because it needed them to withstand commercial type use.

As great as a CK is, it's not in the same class as a true TLB, and isn't really built for the heavy work some folks claim.

I could have compared it to an LS G3033H, since they weigh the same once you add loaders and buckets, but it's still a standard CUT not meant for heavy FEL use, even though the FEL lifts nearly 40% more than the CK can.

 

[GManBart]

IMO, the B26 is closer to CK series. The CK35 is the same as the CK27 with a bigger engine so you can't just pick one close in hp. CK is about 5195 lbs with FEL and BH to the Kubota's 4000 lbs. I disagree that the Kubota TBL's are heavier than the similar Kioti TBL's and therefore heavier duty. There's more than just weight that goes into heavy duty.


B26 - 26hp:
Weight: 4,001 lbs [1814 kg] (with loader/backhoe)
Wheelbase: 62.2 inches [157 cm]
Length: 149 inches [378 cm]
Width: 54 inches [137 cm]


CK27 -28 hp:
Weight: 3,161 lbs [1433 kg] (CK27)
3,117 lbs [1413 kg] (CK27HST)
Wheelbase: 66.1 inches [167 cm]
Length: 122.2 inches [310 cm]
Width: 54.6 inches [138 cm]

You're missing a few things here.

First off, Kioti doesn't make a TLB, so let's no confuse anybody....they make tractors that you can mount FELs and BH's on them. There is a difference, obviously, since that's pretty much what we're talking about.

Second, your post proves my point because you missed something. The B26 has a smaller wheelbase, and is smaller in overall length. The B26 overall length (transport mode) is 198" with FEL and BH mounted. The CK length you listed is without the FEL, or BH mounted.

A CK with FEL and BH is roughly 220" overall length (you have to add length, plus listed specs for the FEL and BH). That's also why the B26 has a 4" smaller wheelbase than the CK does...it's a smaller machine, which is why it weighs 1,200lbs less.

The L35 I mentioned is roughly 220" overall, and a 67" wheelbase. The CK is roughly 220" overall and a 66" wheelbase. The CK and L35 are similar sized machines...with an inch here or there between the two. They have similar sized engines, wheels, tires, etc, and the L35 weighs about 1,000lbs more. If the two are similar in dimensions, and one weighs 20% more, it pretty much means the heavier one has to be built with larger, stronger components, assuming both are of reasonably high quality, which isn't in question here.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Dang, you guys like to spit, cuss and argue.

 

[GManBart]

Dang, you guys like to spit, cuss and argue.

It's January, it was -7*F here this morning....cabin fever? :laughing: