3-Point Hitch position control lever on mx5100

[ranchland]

I am the new owner of a mx510

0, 4hrs on odometer. I really enjoy the tractor and am getting used to the controls gradually. I already know about the jerky 3pt hitch thing. I just found another problem that if one is not careful could damage the hydraulic unit. It concerns the 3pt hitch "position control lever". I put my box blade on 3pt hitch for ballast and pulled the lever all the way back to lift the box blade up. I then started moving some dirt with fel. I happened to notice a hydraulic whine at idle and then I lowered position control lever just enough (probably 1/2 inch) and the whine stopped. There is a stop at the top of the lever groove but it is not adjustable. Is there an adjustment that can be made before my son or wife accidently leaves lever all the way up and damages hydraulics? Thanks to all the knowledgeable folks on this forum, I love reading all the posts and have learned a lot.

 

[bigbull338]

i never noticed a hydro pump whine on my mx5100hst for 2.5yrs from having something on the 3pt an raised.

 

[k0ua]

I am the new owner of a mx510

0, 4hrs on odometer. I really enjoy the tractor and am getting used to the controls gradually. I already know about the jerky 3pt hitch thing. I just found another problem that if one is not careful could damage the hydraulic unit. It concerns the 3pt hitch "position control lever". I put my box blade on 3pt hitch for ballast and pulled the lever all the way back to lift the box blade up. I then started moving some dirt with fel. I happened to notice a hydraulic whine at idle and then I lowered position control lever just enough (probably 1/2 inch) and the whine stopped. There is a stop at the top of the lever groove but it is not adjustable. Is there an adjustment that can be made before my son or wife accidently leaves lever all the way up and damages hydraulics? Thanks to all the knowledgeable folks on this forum, I love reading all the posts and have learned a lot.

Your rig needs to go back to the dealer. That is not normal operation. You should be able to yank back fully on the position control without deadheading the pump. I have never seen a 3pt position control that worked that way. Something is mis adjusted and needs to be repaired.

James K0UA

 

[ranchland]

Thanks, I am going to take it back and have them take a look see.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks, I am going to take it back and have them take a look see.

Please check back, I am interested in what they have to say about what they found.

 

[FatTire]

I have an MX5100 and often go to full up when the rear blade is on, and never heard anything like that.

 

[ranchland]

I called dealer and explained situation. He said the lever is 2 parts and connected by 2 screws midway down and sometimes they become loose or the lever is not attached correctly to side of hydraulic housing. This will be addressed at the 50 hr service. I will fab a stop and just put it where the stop is now until then.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Ditto on no problems here on my mx 5100. I always pull it all the way up, never heard a thing. Also, never had a " jerky " motion on the 3 pt hitch, smooth as silk.

 

[ranchland]

I'm sure it is just an adjustment on control lever. However the jerky hitch is a nuisance but the dealer assured me it will be fixed. It is a well known issue, google "Kubota jerky 3pt hitch".

 

[Herkypilot]

About 70 hours on mine. The whine is an adjustment issue and is just in by-pass. Mine was the same. It's a simple fix and takes about 10 minutes and a couple of wrenches. Lift up the seat and there's a feedback rod attached to a lever with two locking nuts. If I recall, it's right of center looking down and aft. The easy way to adjust is start your tractor and raise the 3ph all the way up until you hear the whine. Now loosen one of the jam nuts on the rod and move the other nut until the whine stops, then tighten the jam nut back up and you are done.
As far as the jerky hitch, as far as I've read, it's very rare that it will be fixed. You will either have to live with it, or trade the tractor for a Grand L of the same size. We all know Kubota knows about this issue and I'm surprised they continued to pump out MX's and L's that have this problem.

 

[rScotty]

s far as the jerky hitch, as far as I've read, it's very rare that it will be fixed. You will either have to live with it, or trade the tractor for a Grand L of the same size. We all know Kubota knows about this issue and I'm surprised they continued to pump out MX's and L's that have this problem.

Herky, that's a nice description of how to adjust the stop on the 3 pt. Hope it helps him.

As for the jerk hitch, I've wondered if my M59 has it too. Anyone know? Frankly I've never removed the backhoe and tried the 3pt. Might do that next year just to move the piston!

Hmmmm....wait a minute here....Are we sure that Kubota knows about that 3 pt hitch jerky issue? What evidence? I may have missed it, but don't recall any reports of communication from or with the Kubota product design engineers on that subject. Talking to dealers and users may not be the same at all.

Fixing the jerk should be easy enough. What surprises me is that nobody in this country has marketed a fixit kit for it. Manufacturing plants are notoriously slow to change. A good way to get their attention would be to market a kit to fix the problem. Might work even better if it was marketed through the Kubota dealerships......
rscotty

 

[Herkypilot]

I don't recall reading about the M series having this issue, just L's and MX. I've seen it on 4 MX's (3 MX-5100's and 1 MX-4700).

Well, to tell you the truth, I am only going by what is written on this site. Dealers who are working to fix this issue under warranty don't want to waste any time troubleshooting as warranty work doesn't pay well enough to cover repairs as it is. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that regional reps were consulted and if they know, Kubota knows. The bottom line is I don't believe Kubota is so devoid of testing their products to not "know" about this since it's been an issue with the L's and MX's for multiple year models.

Just my take.

 

[Chilly807]

There's a procedure for adjusting the upper limit of the 3-point travel, I'll have a look in the manual today if I get a chance. It seems to me it's completely external, if I remember correctly you lengthen the feed back rod until the relief valve stops dumping, as said earlier. Then try to lift the upper arms by hand, they should have a small amount of free upward motion. This ensures you're not at the extreme end of the piston travel. I'll check to be sure though. With a new tractor it's definitely a dealer responsibility, but if you want to do it yourself it's not complicated.

Sean

 

[Herkypilot]

Interesting and timely that you posted Sean. I've read about your plight with the jerky hitch issue. I'm sure you can provide more insight on this than I can to the OP and rscotty .

HP

 

[k0ua]

I finally got a call back from a Kubota Corporate representative, and going thru the Dealers and attempting to get assistance from the Area Kubota Rep. on my jerky hitch odyssey. Selling dealer did not give a rats patooty. Another dealer tried everything he could to assist me, but could not get the Area Rep to give anything, either a new valve or any payment to have the dealer troubleshoot the problem. Keep in mind this was under warranty still. When Kubota Corporate finally called me several months later, I was a Kioti owner. I don't know what he was going to offer me. I think Kubota corporate called me because I had participated in a 3rd party survey paid for by various tractor manufactures, and I had given them the whole story on the jerky 3pt hitch on the standard L series. From what I understand a valve off of a 3130 will fix it, and one member here has fixed his with a needle valve to restrict the flow to the cylinder, but other fixes are few and far between. Perhaps Sean would care to go over some of his attempts to fix his.

James K0UA

 

[rScotty]

Well, to tell you the truth, I am only going by what is written on this site. Dealers who are working to fix this issue under warranty don't want to waste any time troubleshooting as warranty work doesn't pay well enough to cover repairs as it is. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that regional reps were consulted and if they know, Kubota knows. The bottom line is I don't believe Kubota is so devoid of testing their products to not "know" about this since it's been an issue with the L's and MX's for multiple year models.

Just my take.

Here's an example why they might not know about the jerky 3 pt hitch.

I just retired after decades of designing machinery for a major US mfg co. These were tools and instruments for industry. they were successful products but specialized stuff. During my working years, I lab-tested some of the machinery I designed, but I never actually used it in the field....and I never met anyone else who did either. Nor did I ever get one piece of feedback from anyone who did.
I'm sure there were things I missed and mistakes I made that could have been easily fixed if I'd but known they existed.....
The point is that since today's design engineer is typically insulated from feedback, his mistakes all too often simply perpetuate themselves because he doesn't have any reason not to keep including elements of old designs into the next generation. In fact, the designer is always under a lot of pressure to re-use portions of old designs simply because it is so much less expensive to do it that way.

So I don't find it unreasonable at all that the person who could fix this problem at Kubota is simply not aware that a problem exists. And even if he is, there's probably a lot of pressure to ignore it.

And I don't have any idea how to break through that cultural wall and get the info to the person who could use it. If I knew, I'd have done it for my own work.
Any ideas??
rScotty

 

[murphy1244]

Here's an example why they might not know about the jerky 3 pt hitch.

I just retired after decades of designing machinery for a major US mfg co. These were tools and instruments for industry. they were successful products but specialized stuff. During my working years, I lab-tested some of the machinery I designed, but I never actually used it in the field....and I never met anyone else who did either. Nor did I ever get one piece of feedback from anyone who did.
I'm sure there were things I missed and mistakes I made that could have been easily fixed if I'd but known they existed.....
The point is that since today's design engineer is typically insulated from feedback, his mistakes all too often simply perpetuate themselves because he doesn't have any reason not to keep including elements of old designs into the next generation. In fact, the designer is always under a lot of pressure to re-use portions of old designs simply because it is so much less expensive to do it that way.

So I don't find it unreasonable at all that the person who could fix this problem at Kubota is simply not aware that a problem exists. And even if he is, there's probably a lot of pressure to ignore it.

And I don't have any idea how to break through that cultural wall and get the info to the person who could use it. If I knew, I'd have done it for my own work.
Any ideas??
rScotty

Did your place offer a Warranty?

 

[rScotty]

Did your place offer a Warranty?

Yes they did. What's the point?
rScotty

 

[murphy1244]

Yes they did. What's the point?
rScotty

I worked for a Machine Manufacturer and we built at least 1k machines a year and most of those were custom built. So not every thing works as designed. Ever see the flow chart that starts 1 as what sales sold 2 what engineering designed 3 what buyer planners bought 4 what the shop built and 5 what was delivered to the customer. I can't see your place being competitive and not engineering depts seeing what they worked on. YMMV

 

[rScotty]

I worked for a Machine Manufacturer and we built at least 1k machines a year and most of those were custom built. So not every thing works as designed. Ever see the flow chart that starts 1 as what sales sold 2 what engineering designed 3 what buyer planners bought 4 what the shop built and 5 what was delivered to the customer. I can't see your place being competitive and not engineering depts seeing what they worked on. YMMV[/QUOTE

I've seen those charts. They're funny. But really they are more good for a laugh than they are connected to how big manufacturing works.

The difference might be a matter of scale. You say you built 1000 units a year and most were custom built. That's not really large scale mass production, and BTW, I actually prefer smaller production and favor things built the way you describe.
The difference is on products I designed they might build several hundred thousand units a year and because they are safety-rated by agencies like UL, then none of them were ever custom designed...they aren't allowed to be. (the customer can pick from a list of options to fit his needs, but that's it.).

The company I worked for was about a $50B dollar company. Kubota is listed at $100B.

When such big companies manufacture something is always surprising how little of the retail price of the product is reflected in the direct cost making it. FWIW, the number is always less than 25%, and often less than 10%.
Small variations in that percentage are really what controls whether a company is competitive or not. The product is simply expected to work as described.....and of course it more or less does. That doesn't mean it couldn't be greatly improved by customer input, but there isn't any route for that to happen. That's my point. And if it did happen it would have to also be profitable....any design changes would have to fit in without impacting that 10% cost-to-manufacture target.
rScotty