Do it yourself Refrigeration and Air Conditioning

[Tractor Seabee]

AC&R is not a DIY candidate for maintaining a system. So you have the cert, the refrigerant, gauges, a vacuum pump, and some of the special tools (about $1K to get set up). When the gauges are on the system do you know what the pressures mean? You are dealing with a lot of high tech training and experience to become proficient in diagnosing problems. Do you know about oil migration, moisture in the system, burned out compressors, airflow over condensers and evaporators? I spent 5 years as an apprentice, mostly installations, before being allowed on a service call alone. First call was one of those complicated ones. The service manager had to send a 15 year journeyman to bail me out. He diagnosed the problem in 5 minutes. I overlooked the basic theory we learned in the classroom. W/o that theory background in your head you are lost. SAVE it for the Pros. They are worth every dime in solving problems fast.

Ron

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm not adverse to buying the required tools...

At one building, I'm responsible for 14 Carrier Package Units plus a built-up unit with bag filters all with Johnson Control Windows 2000 system with optimal start/stop...

Always had a full service maintenance program that covered most things with a few exclusions... motors/compressors 10hp and larger, refrigerant, ducting, fire dampers, pneumatic stats and power disconects...

Seems this type of contract has gone the way of the dino... get lots of calls soliciting my business and I invite a quote for a full service contract and that eliminates 95% right there.

A few months ago I was away and one of the package units lost a compressor... cost to repair was $3,700... very close to buying a new package unit and it was all straight time.

Last year I spent over $60,000 on HVAC repairs and maintenace at this one property with the bulk being labor. Filters and belts just don't cost that much...

As I write, I am also replacing a residential system in Washington State... the install is over 14k for a 5 ton two stage plus varible speed air handler...

I can buy the identical air handler, heat pump, line set and thermostat with Washington State Delivery for $6,200... just seems $8,000 is a lot to replace an existing system and the 3 bids are within $800

Thinking adding HVAC to my skill set might be a good move?

As mentioned... I use to charge automotive systems for friends and family and have installed about a dozen residential systems from scratch with power, gas, ducting, etc.

I find not having a certificate separates the men from the boys.

Even the guys that have completed full apprenticeships on ocasion have to call the oldtimers or as they say... get another set of eyes on a problem.

Just a thought... next week I have a meeting with the HVAC company to discuss where we go from here...

Always appreciate the TBN Brain Trust!!!

 

[tallyho8]

I agree with Tractor Seabee. It is not a DIY job. I owned an air conditioning business for 38 years and can not tell you how many people burned out their compressors or did other major damage to their cooling systems by "just adding a little freon".

Most do-it-yourselfers think that if a unit is not cooling properly, they just need to add freon but in the large majority of cases it is a different problem altogether and adding freon makes it much worse.

 

[murphy1244]

I agree with Tractor Seabee. It is not a DIY job. I owned an air conditioning business for 38 years and can not tell you how many people burned out their compressors or did other major damage to their cooling systems by "just adding a little freon".

Most do-it-yourselfers think that if a unit is not cooling properly, they just need to add freon but in the large majority of cases it is a different problem altogether and adding freon makes it much worse.

Yep, Must understand Super Heat.

 

[Loadstar]

Lol yea I am all for DIY HVAC. Especially in industrial applications. DIY continually lines our pockets haha. Nothing is usually more dangerous to a system than someone who "knows" what they are doing. We just had an industrial customer decide we cost too much to wash one of there very large carrier 30GT chillers. So they pressure washed it clean LOL and called us hours later to get it running again. Took 6 guys almost twelve hours to get all the fins combed. Saved them bundles of money hahaha. Manufacturers made a great big DIY trap with 410a and Poe oil. It can be rough on hacks. 410a is a disaster for us because the equipment is terrible and can't come close to surviving industrial environments.

 

[ultrarunner]

The other side is the cost spent to keep the package units operational greatly exceeds the cost of new units...

At one time I managed a large apartment building and when it was built I ordered an extra wall furnace, water heater, stoves, range hoods, etc that were identical to those in the units.

I can't tell you how efficient this was to making quick and efficient repairs... with the stoves... the cost of only a few parts would equal the cost we paid for complete new stove when bought in bulk.

I'm willing to take courses at the local community college... I earn no where near the $130 we pay under contract and if it took me three times as long... I would still come out ahead.

The $3700 to replace one compressor in a carrier package unit is what turned the tide... over $3,000 was for labor and R22.

I could ruin at least 6 compressors and still be even.

My background is engineering and I did work in a tool and die building assemblies for the space shuttle and my hobby is complete restorations on my cars... have never taken a car to the shop in my life...

 

[Loadstar]

A $700 compressor. What is it a 2 ton package unit? You think some of the other $3000 might also be insurance for company, vehicles and the cost associated, overhead, consumables, filter drier, contactor, the tools they use etc etc...
Also it may be just your contractor. Maybe they are awesome, and maybe they are not. I would say 60 to 70% of people in the trade have no business touching HVAC equipment.

 

[Loadstar]

The $3700 to replace one compressor in a carrier package unit is what turned the tide... over $3,000 was for labor and R22.

I could ruin at least 6 compressors and still be even.

Can you elaborate on this a little my calculator is not working.

 

[ultrarunner]

A $700 compressor. What is it a 2 ton package unit? You think some of the other $3000 might also be insurance for company, vehicles and the cost associated, overhead, consumables, filter drier, contactor, the tools they use etc etc...
Also it may be just your contractor. Maybe they are awesome, and maybe they are not. I would say 60 to 70% of people in the trade have no business touching HVAC equipment.

It's a union shop and all the lead men are journeymen... been with the owner of the company since 1995 and is as honest as they come... also teaches at the regional occupation center.

About two years ago he expanded... took on a partner, new business location and this was the end of the full service contracts... seems that they were very much the norm at one time and no more unless it is a new install...

I fully agree the overhead and benefits are expensive... nice uniforms, new trucks, etc... really don't need to pay for all that if I'm not for hire.

Started noticing that most of the job postings in my line of work require or desire someone with an EPA Cert 608...

 

[ultrarunner]

Can you elaborate on this a little my calculator is not working.

My cost to buy the compressor with me going to the supply house is $422.

No one is paying me $130 an hour to order it or pick it up, unpack and stage it on the roof.

I already have gauges, vacuum pump, Fluke meters, brazing equipment, tubing cutters, flare wrenches... etc... I don't have a scale.

I also have my welding certifications for all positions, low hydrogen, etc.

Job security is not certain... the more one can do the more options.

Twenty five years ago I never thought I would also be working in the operating room too... it really is a whole new world when it comes to employement and containing costs.