Tombstone and 7018-1

/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #1  

farmer2009

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I have an AC Tombstone welder that came with some 7018-1 1/8" rods. I can not get them to stay lit. After about a half inch they go out at 120 amps. Then will not strike or stick or nothing. End is clean even tapped them on concrete floor to roughen them up some. Runs 7014 and 6011's like candy. Doesn't like 6013's either but I am not a fan of them so no big deal. Bought it used at a yard sale. Gave $100 for it with new leads figuring they were worth that.

Any ideas what is going on? Have heard that 7018 can be hard on these and if you run much of them it can quit running them. Is this true?
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #2  
Try heating the electrodes in an oven to dry out any water they may have absorbed. Also try the next higher setting. Are your 7018 the AC verision?
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Try heating the electrodes in an oven to dry out any water they may have absorbed. Also try the next higher setting. Are your 7018 the AC verision?

No they are not. Will see what an oven does
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #4  
7018 only work on DC. but 7018AC is another story
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #5  
DXN1EL said:
7018 only work on DC. but 7018AC is another story

+1
AC rods have something in the flux that keeps them lit as the AC goes from (+) to (-).
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #6  
Depends somewhat on the welding machine. I've ran regular 7018 on an AC 225 Lincoln without much problems. Many people have before the AC 7018 was available. I've also tried regular 7018 on the older style Miller Thunderbolts and it was very frustrating trying to keep a steady arc. Regular 7018 is not a DC only rod. Run it on an Idealarc Lincoln on AC and it will work fine. They used to make 500 amp AC machines for burning large electrodes because you wouldn't get arc blow. The AC 7018 can make a big difference on a buzz box though.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#7  
7018 only work on DC. but 7018AC is another story

I have ran 7018 on an ac machine. It was a miller, it didn't like them but would run them. So I figured the Lincoln would run them.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Depends somewhat on the welding machine. I've ran regular 7018 on an AC 225 Lincoln without much problems. Many people have before the AC 7018 was available. I've also tried regular 7018 on the older style Miller Thunderbolts and it was very frustrating trying to keep a steady arc. Regular 7018 is not a DC only rod. Run it on an Idealarc Lincoln on AC and it will work fine. They used to make 500 amp AC machines for burning large electrodes because you wouldn't get arc blow. The AC 7018 can make a big difference on a buzz box though.

Thanks arc weld.
Interesting that the big machines will handle them better while still being an AC machine. I had a nice arc going actually, started easy I thought, and then like somebody just blew it out and now won't start back. I am willing to go to the AC7018 but wanted to be able to use these that came with the welder up first about a pound. Although the regular 7018 are over a dollar a pound cheaper than the AC in my area. So it would be nice if I can burn them during larger projects.

Any ideas on getting them to burn?

If I put them in oven say 200-250. How long do I leave them in? It is about 50 here for the highs right now.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #9  
Wet low hydrogen rods (7018) might take 12 hours to recondition @ 350F. I use a lot of 7018 and I bought a used Phoenix dry rod oven that I keep on at all times set at 300F to keep them very dry.
I ran a lot of regular 7018 on an old Lincoln 225 tombstone machine back in the 70's . They were stored in an old refrigerator with a light bulb in it and ran fine with maybe a bit of porosity at the start. They are hard to work with due to AC needing to be long arced whereas low hydrogen needs to keep a short arc distance and they do go out easily if the arc is too long or stick if too short which requires a restart, but it should restart with a hard tap. Are you sure the machine overload breaker is not tripping.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #10  
The thought never crossed my mind to run 7018 on AC until joining these tractor forums. So awhile back I gave it a try with my old buzz box. The noise really set me back:shocked:! About the only thing I noticed different was I could not get the weld to wet out like on DC. But I had no problems with the machine cutting out at all.
I just wonder if something isn't wrong with your machine?

Here's the machine I used, and the weld. The 7018 I used never seen the inside of a rod oven.
 

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/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Are you sure the machine overload breaker is not tripping.

Yea I am. Tried for a couple of minutes to relight the 7018 turned around grabbed a 7014 that was on the bench. Changed rods and arc struck first tap and finished welds no problem. Didn't change anything but rod and about what 5 seconds to change out the rod.

The overload shouldn't reset that fast.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #12  
Does an AC tombstone have a overload breaker? I don't recall seeing anything in my manual about one.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #13  
Does an AC tombstone have a overload breaker? I don't recall seeing anything in my manual about one.

I read somewhere that only the AC/DC has overload protection on the DC side.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #14  
I think I read that in a thread somewhere, too. If the strictly AC tombstones have an overload breaker, I'll be delighted but, I honestly don't believe they do.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #15  
To the OP: Do not give up on 6013 just yet. Although I am not a huge fan of 6013 it is still useful for some applications. (like thin sheet metal when no wire feeder is available)

Really Every welding machine (even expensive ones) have brands of rods that they burn better than others. Your machine is limited in some aspects in that it is AC only and it also has tapped amp settings instead of infinitely adjustable amp settings, but that does not mean it still can not work very well. The key is finding the brand of a particular rod type and size that actually burns well on a setting that you actually have on your welder. Brand A may run like crap, but Brand B might run perfectly. It might even go as far as Brand A in 3/32" diameter but Brand B in 1/8" diameter within a rod type. Once you find one you like then that rod is a keeper for your machine. I always buy small packs to test then, once I find one I like then purchase the more economical size. Another thing that can also confuse the situation is that even Lincoln and Hobart often make 2 to 3 grades of a rod type. Some grades within a brand are just not suitable for the buzzbox class of machine.

7014 rod might be the one rod that might actually run better on AC as compared to DC. I love 7014 too.

I started out with a Lincoln AC buzzbox. It was a great welder and I would still have it had I not stumbled into a bargain on my Miller buzzbox. 6011, 6013, and 7014 were always my go to rods on the Lincoln.

While I have a Miller thunderbolt AC/DC now (The Lincoln was better on the AC side of things in my opinion). I decided to keep the Miller because it did have DC. Had it been an AC only unit then I would have kept the Lincoln. 6011, 6013, and 7014 are still my go to rods on the Miller even with the DC capability - although some of my brand preferences have changed slightly with Miller (again every machine has brands it likes better than others).

For me: I hardly ever fool with 7018 as I do not want the rod oven storage hassles with it, but if I did feel I absolutely had to have it for project then I would go 7018AC. 7018AC will also burn on DC and is almost always a better choice for the buzzbox class of welding machine even if you have DC capability. With an AC only machine it is certainly the best choice. Now which brand? That will be up to you to determine - LOL. (And do remember that any 7018 or 7018AC can be very finicky and difficult to run if it has drawn moisture. Guys that weld a lot and go through rod quickly hardly ever see it though even if they do not store it properly. Occasional hobby welders where rods stay on the shelf for months and even years like in my case do see it though especially when your shop is an ole damp barn).
 
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/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#16  
The thought never crossed my mind to run 7018 on AC until joining these tractor forums. So awhile back I gave it a try with my old buzz box. The noise really set me back:shocked:! About the only thing I noticed different was I could not get the weld to wet out like on DC. But I had no problems with the machine cutting out at all.
I just wonder if something isn't wrong with your machine?


Here's the machine I used, and the weld. The 7018 I used never seen the inside of a rod oven.

Sorry for the delay got busy and am just having time to get back to this.
Tried it again at 135amps. Sounded horrible but worked. Some pictures if they work.

7018 135 Amps


7014 120 amps


7014 105 amps
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1 #17  
Why are you weaving the bead so wide? Just a straight bead would have more than enough strength for that round bar. The other option would be to bevel the ends for penetration and butt the 2 sides together.
 
/ Tombstone and 7018-1
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Why are you weaving the bead so wide? Just a straight bead would have more than enough strength for that round bar. The other option would be to bevel the ends for penetration and butt the 2 sides together.

Habit I guess. Plus wanted to make sure it was sealed good as where it is going is very hard on welded areas and didn't have time to paint them
 
 
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