we are a dying breed

[NorTracNY]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

Funny that our kids are limited in their computer and TV time and get outside MUCH more than their classmates, but both their grandparents just put the TV on while they are there for them. Sometimes they do planned activities with them, but rarely outside.

 

[simoutdoors]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

As a young parent here is my take. We are all have too many demands on our time!

I grew-up hunting and fishing, but I don't get more than 5 days a year in the woods hunting now. The only fishing I do is drowning crawlers with my girls at our family camp, with an occasional hour here or there for myself. Why? Time! In most households both parents need to work to make ends meet, even if you live a very modest life. Often one spouse or the other has a commute that sucks up even more time. Often schedules are such that a family cannot get all of life's chores done during the "work" week to have our weekend for "leisure."

I also think that Athletics have become so organized and structured that they are too demanding on children's time. If a child is interested in soccer now days, there is tremendous pressure for them to play year round. They have school league, select teams, summer league, etc.... The same happens with young hockey players. I am thankful that my older girl only seems interested in running, which doesn't have all the organized leagues and pressure of many of the other sports. I feel sorry for my friends when we invite them for camping or hiking and they can't because of a summer soccer tournament. Sure the kid may have fun, but they are also missing out on other life experiences.

I hear lots of folks blaming electronics and parents for this. At my home we have electronics, but they are not used as "babysitters." We encourage our children to use them for education and limit there time. We don't have a big TV with hundreds of mind numbing channels that the kids spend all weekend watching. We do make time to get away for family hikes, bike rides, walks, etc, but it is hard to find time for me dedicate to a successful hunt. If I go away for a weekend fishing trip I know I am leaving a burden on my spouse. I dream of the simpler days when a parent could stay home and families could spend more quality time passing down family traditions.

 

[TomSeller]

As a young parent here is my take. We are all have too many demands on our time!

I grew-up hunting and fishing, but I don't get more than 5 days a year in the woods hunting now. The only fishing I do is drowning crawlers with my girls at our family camp, with an occasional hour here or there for myself. Why? Time! In most households both parents need to work to make ends meet, even if you live a very modest life. Often one spouse or the other has a commute that sucks up even more time. Often schedules are such that a family cannot get all of life's chores done during the "work" week to have our weekend for "leisure."

I also think that Athletics have become so organized and structured that they are too demanding on children's time. If a child is interested in soccer now days, there is tremendous pressure for them to play year round. They have school league, select teams, summer league, etc.... The same happens with young hockey players. I am thankful that my older girl only seems interested in running, which doesn't have all the organized leagues and pressure of many of the other sports. I feel sorry for my friends when we invite them for camping or hiking and they can't because of a summer soccer tournament. Sure the kid may have fun, but they are also missing out on other life experiences.

I hear lots of folks blaming electronics and parents for this. At my home we have electronics, but they are not used as "babysitters." We encourage our children to use them for education and limit there time. We don't have a big TV with hundreds of mind numbing channels that the kids spend all weekend watching. We do make time to get away for family hikes, bike rides, walks, etc, but it is hard to find time for me dedicate to a successful hunt. If I go away for a weekend fishing trip I know I am leaving a burden on my spouse. I dream of the simpler days when a parent could stay home and families could spend more quality time passing down family traditions.

Very well stated. I don't know how Sports became so intense, like everyone is going to become a professional soccer player some day.

 

[Circle W]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

As a young parent here is my take. We are all have too many demands on our time!

I grew-up hunting and fishing, but I don't get more than 5 days a year in the woods hunting now. The only fishing I do is drowning crawlers with my girls at our family camp, with an occasional hour here or there for myself. Why? Time! In most households both parents need to work to make ends meet, even if you live a very modest life. Often one spouse or the other has a commute that sucks up even more time. Often schedules are such that a family cannot get all of life's chores done during the "work" week to have our weekend for "leisure."

I also think that Athletics have become so organized and structured that they are too demanding on children's time. If a child is interested in soccer now days, there is tremendous pressure for them to play year round. They have school league, select teams, summer league, etc.... The same happens with young hockey players. I am thankful that my older girl only seems interested in running, which doesn't have all the organized leagues and pressure of many of the other sports. I feel sorry for my friends when we invite them for camping or hiking and they can't because of a summer soccer tournament. Sure the kid may have fun, but they are also missing out on other life experiences.

I hear lots of folks blaming electronics and parents for this. At my home we have electronics, but they are not used as "babysitters." We encourage our children to use them for education and limit there time. We don't have a big TV with hundreds of mind numbing channels that the kids spend all weekend watching. We do make time to get away for family hikes, bike rides, walks, etc, but it is hard to find time for me dedicate to a successful hunt. If I go away for a weekend fishing trip I know I am leaving a burden on my spouse. I dream of the simpler days when a parent could stay home and families could spend more quality time passing down family traditions.

Thats a good point about school athletics eating up kids' time. In my experience, we had a football event 6 out of the 7 days. Practice mon-thur, game friday, film session and scouting reports on saturday. After football season was over, it was straight to wrestling. After wrestling, straight to baseball. Then when baseball is over, it was time to start football again. Such a vicious cycle!

 

[dmccarty]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

Thats a good point about school athletics eating up kids' time. In my experience, we had a football event 6 out of the 7 days. Practice mon-thur, game friday, film session and scouting reports on saturday. After football season was over, it was straight to wrestling. After wrestling, straight to baseball. Then when baseball is over, it was time to start football again. Such a vicious cycle!

Bing Bing Bing

This is the big difference of today compared to my time in school. In 5th and 6th grade, I played full contact football for the school but I rode my bike to school so all my parents had to do was go to the games. This was the only sport offered. We moved to a different state and in middle school, I think there might have been a boys and girls basket ball team. Football was in leagues out side of school as was soccer. Maybe a girls volleyball team but I would not bet on it. In HS, there was football, basketball, wrestling, field/track and maybe girls volley ball.

Today, my kids started playing soccer and basketball when they were 5-6 years old, maybe a bit younger. Middle school has soccer, basketball, running, and volleyball. Kids who play soccer well are encouraged to be on teams outside the school soccer season. These leagues and clinics run year round and consume huge amounts of time and money from the family.

Sports, school based or not, consume much of a families time today and leave very little time for other recreation. My kids have more homework in elementary school than I did in HS. It is really sick what some of the teachers and schools systems are doing to the kids and for no gain that I can see, just stress for the kids and families.

I know I am so busy with jobs, family and chores that I have very little time to hunt as I mentioned earlier in the thread. All I have to do go hunting is put on some clothes, grab a rifle and walk out the door but I often do not have the time, or when I do have the time, I am too tired to hunt.

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

My kids are 39 and 35 years old, so I am not in touch with parenting these days.

But I wonder why parents don't make some judgement calls on these endless activities. Why can't a parent just say we're going camping together (for example) and if a game is missed that isn't the end of the world? Why should it be? It's a GAME after all. Maybe wrapping your lives around the perceived needs of your children is counter-productive in the long run, even though I'm sure you are thinking of enhancing their chances for success in life.

If work demands are over-running your family life, same deal, make some judgement calls. Work is not a lifestyle, at least it didn't used to be.

I have great memories of hunting and fishing with my Dad. We each had a gun, or fishing rod, and we were doing those things together. Dad wasn't the chauffeur, or spectator, or a coach worried about numerous kids.

I think kids need time to be kids. They need the opportunity to create their own fun. They need time to learn from their own mistakes too.

 

[Jstpssng]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I guess this doesn't bother me anymore... times are changing and just because I enjoy something doesn't mean somebody else does. I've even had people go so far as to say that they will be glad when we're gone so they don't have to deal with our ideals.
I do believe that the concept of "fair chase" is mostly about reducing overhunting rather than being humane... after all which more apt to result in a humane hit; a shot at a running animal, or ambushing him when he doesn't expect you, and you havetime to take a careful shot?

Just for the record; bear baiting isn't as easy as some would have you think. Guides put a lot of effort into putting out tree stands, maintaining the bait sites, etc; and many of their clients would never be in the woods without those efforts. They are told to "Stay in your tree stand no matter what"... otherwise many of them would become lost. Out of state hunters create a lot of seasonal jobs for these guides and bringa lot of business into the state; because of this we have a stellar bear study team, which was featured on National Geographic a couple of years ago. There are those who say we are exploiting the animal, yet what's the difference between managing the bear population, and managing pigs in a pig farm?

 

[Bird]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I know a lot of people think going to shoot an animal on a game farm is like shooting fish in a barrel; no sport to it. And I suspect that's true in some cases, but many years ago I visited the YO Ranch that was famous in Texas for hunting 365 days a year back then. But it was sure different from what I expected. They had a bunch of 100 acre "pens" alright where a wide variety of animals were raised, but there was no hunting in any of those. All the hunting was done on the ranch with thousands of acres the animals could roam on. Of course, they've sold off a lot of land since I was there, but at that time they said they had 78,000 acres at the main ranch, and another 18,000 acres a little ways off.

 

[dave1949]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I know a lot of people think going to shoot an animal on a game farm is like shooting fish in a barrel; no sport to it. And I suspect that's true in some cases, but many years ago I visited the YO Ranch that was famous in Texas for hunting 365 days a year back then. But it was sure different from what I expected. They had a bunch of 100 acre "pens" alright where a wide variety of animals were raised, but there was no hunting in any of those. All the hunting was done on the ranch with thousands of acres the animals could roam on. Of course, they've sold off a lot of land since I was there, but at that time they said they had 78,000 acres at the main ranch, and another 18,000 acres a little ways off.

With that much land, it wouldn't be much different than regular hunting it seems. Sounds like it was quite an operation.

 

[dave1949]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I guess this doesn't bother me anymore... times are changing and just because I enjoy something doesn't mean somebody else does. I've even had people go so far as to say that they will be glad when we're gone so they don't have to deal with our ideals.
I do believe that the concept of "fair chase" is mostly about reducing overhunting rather than being humane... after all which more apt to result in a humane hit; a shot at a running animal, or ambushing him when he doesn't expect you, and you havetime to take a careful shot?

Just for the record; bear baiting isn't as easy as some would have you think. Guides put a lot of effort into putting out tree stands, maintaining the bait sites, etc; and many of their clients would never be in the woods without those efforts. They are told to "Stay in your tree stand no matter what"... otherwise many of them would become lost. Out of state hunters create a lot of seasonal jobs for these guides and bringa lot of business into the state; because of this we have a stellar bear study team, which was featured on National Geographic a couple of years ago. There are those who say we are exploiting the animal, yet what's the difference between managing the bear population, and managing pigs in a pig farm?

I posted to hear what others think about the issue. I can see valid points on both sides and don't really have a firm opinion either way.

Supposedly, Maine has the largest black bear population in the lower 48 states. I have yet to actually see one on my lot, although I have found bear scat several times. This year's pile was particularly impressive. :laughing:

I would agree that the guides and DNR bear folks have built a good business on a natural resource, and they have managed that business well.

I have a little trouble with the lack of most hunter's ability to do the "fair chase." They want to come and be about guaranteed of getting a bear. Maybe it ought it be a bit harder, require skills, physical abilities, etc. It's not much of a "sport" to shoot a baited bear from a stand.

Assuming they aren't eating these bears, or need the fur to stay warm, then the only reasons to shoot them would be for sport, or to control the population. I really don't believe in shooting animals for sport, so there needs to be a good case made (for me) that controlling the bear population is necessary, and there aren't enough skillful hunters to do it without baiting.

I don't want a bunch of bear scare stories, I want reasoned, supportable facts. I would want to hear ideas on how the business of bear hunting can attract skilled hunters as opposed to "sport" hunters. If baiting is to be stopped, I would like to hear how it will be done without yanking the rug out from under those who depend on it. Some sort of transition plan aimed at developing a different, more skilled, hunting market.

I see a big difference between bears and pigs. Pigs play no role in Maine's natural wildlife. If we want to preserve a reasonable facsimile of nature, then we need all the components of nature represented in numbers that make sense--if we know what makes sense.

 

[Circle W]

My kids are 39 and 35 years old, so I am not in touch with parenting these days. But I wonder why parents don't make some judgement calls on these endless activities. Why can't a parent just say we're going camping together (for example) and if a game is missed that isn't the end of the world? Why should it be? It's a GAME after all. Maybe wrapping your lives around the perceived needs of your children is counter-productive in the long run, even though I'm sure you are thinking of enhancing their chances for success in life. If work demands are over-running your family life, same deal, make some judgement calls. Work is not a lifestyle, at least it didn't used to be. I have great memories of hunting and fishing with my Dad. We each had a gun, or fishing rod, and we were doing those things together. Dad wasn't the chauffeur, or spectator, or a coach worried about numerous kids. I think kids need time to be kids. They need the opportunity to create their own fun. They need time to learn from their own mistakes too.

I think the main reason the parents don't tell the kids that they can't play in a game is because some kids LOVE sports, myself included. Not to mention, how are you going to face your teammates that have sweated with you in the 110 degree heat that you didn't make it to the game because your family wanted to go camping. I lived and breathed football, but it wasn't because my parents made me or anything. There's something about representing your small town with 30 of your buddies to back you up that can get your motor turning. Of course it helps when your team was 45-7 and won a state championship in your 4 years there!

But sports aren't totally to blame. They can instill responsibilty and a commitment to something larger than yourself. Like I said earlier, I played in multiple sports. But I also showed duroc hogs, ran competition beagles with my dad, and somehow managed to find time to hunt and fish as well. Heck,the biggest buck I ever killed was after a three hour bus ride from a football game across the state that put us home at 2 am. Dad came to wake me up and I told him I didn't want to go, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, praise The Lord! but I must admit, I'm wired a little different than most. I honestly think I do better with a hectic schedule, possibly because I was raised to keep true to my obligations (my team, chores, homework). No matter what though, grades came first. It's just like anything, you have to find a healthy balance between family, school, and your extracurriculars.

 

[Danno1]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

So how many of you over 40 used to go out fishing on your own or with a friend when you were 8-10years old. How many parents let their 8-10 year olds go leave their house alone anymore. I see baseball dying for much the same reason. I used to play pickup ball lots as a kid. I only see kids playing as part of a league now.

Ya, this^

And many of us fell through the ice testing it for hockey season too! Imagine if your unsupervised 8-10 yr old kid fell through the ice today. It would make the front page of the newspaper. They would lock you up and throw away the key. And then send the kid off to live with strangers.



.

 

[dmccarty]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

My kids are 39 and 35 years old, so I am not in touch with parenting these days.

But I wonder why parents don't make some judgement calls on these endless activities. Why can't a parent just say we're going camping together (for example) and if a game is missed that isn't the end of the world? Why should it be? It's a GAME after all. Maybe wrapping your lives around the perceived needs of your children is counter-productive in the long run, even though I'm sure you are thinking of enhancing their chances for success in life.
...

I think kids need time to be kids. They need the opportunity to create their own fun. They need time to learn from their own mistakes too.

When kids join a team, they make a commitment to the team, and as the child moves up in grades, that commitment is even more important. To miss a game is to shirk one's responsibility and commitment to the team and is the wrong lesson to teach.

I don't really like sports at all. I don't watch the stuff, could care less who won what game, and find the games a waste of time to watch unless my kids are playing. But if my kid is going to play they have to support the team. Period. That means they go to practice and the games even if they are injured and have to sit on the sidelines One is part of the team or they are not. I guess you have never played any sports otherwise you would understand.

WHY kids and parents feel that they have to sign up for some many sports is beyond me but some people really like the kids playing even if it cost them a fair amount of money and time. So be it, at least they are spending TIME with their kids. In reality, there lessons learned in sports are going to serve must kids far better than learning to hunt and fish. Sports SHOULD teach about working on a team and what it takes to earn a position. Sports certainly taught me how to deal with cheating, bribes, people not doing their jobs, people being incompetent and learning life is not fair, so just suck it up and move on. Hunting and fishing are important skill sets, but frankly what I have learned in sportsm has been far more valuable.

I, and many people I know, HAVE to work long hours. Its part of the job requirement. Not getting the job done means you don't have a job. One of my two jobs is at a company that has shipped over 70% of its US workforce overseas. Not getting the job done just means I get fired sooner rather than later. I have never had a professional position where I could just say it is quitting time and I am out of here for today. I am paid to get the job done if that take 8 hours a day or 15. It is a very unusual day when I can leave work after eight hours. Last Friday I worked 12 hours because that is what the job required. That stinks but at least I have a job, and a full time job, which is more than many can say.

Later,
Dan

 

[TomSeller]

I don't know what all this talk about a drop off in hunting and fishing with the younger generation is all about. There are plenty of iPhone apps out there for hunting and fishing.

 

[dave1949]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

When kids join a team, they make a commitment to the team, and as the child moves up in grades, that commitment is even more important. To miss a game is to shirk one's responsibility and commitment to the team and is the wrong lesson to teach.

I don't really like sports at all. I don't watch the stuff, could care less who won what game, and find the games a waste of time to watch unless my kids are playing. But if my kid is going to play they have to support the team. Period. That means they go to practice and the games even if they are injured and have to sit on the sidelines One is part of the team or they are not. I guess you have never played any sports otherwise you would understand.

WHY kids and parents feel that they have to sign up for some many sports is beyond me but some people really like the kids playing even if it cost them a fair amount of money and time. So be it, at least they are spending TIME with their kids. In reality, there lessons learned in sports are going to serve must kids far better than learning to hunt and fish. Sports SHOULD teach about working on a team and what it takes to earn a position. Sports certainly taught me how to deal with cheating, bribes, people not doing their jobs, people being incompetent and learning life is not fair, so just suck it up and move on. Hunting and fishing are important skill sets, but frankly what I have learned in sportsm has been far more valuable.

I, and many people I know, HAVE to work long hours. Its part of the job requirement. Not getting the job done means you don't have a job. One of my two jobs is at a company that has shipped over 70% of its US workforce overseas. Not getting the job done just means I get fired sooner rather than later. I have never had a professional position where I could just say it is quitting time and I am out of here for today. I am paid to get the job done if that take 8 hours a day or 15. It is a very unusual day when I can leave work after eight hours. Last Friday I worked 12 hours because that is what the job required. That stinks but at least I have a job, and a full time job, which is more than many can say.

Later,
Dan

Your rationale for supporting the team is based upon priorities. You have placed the child's participation on a team, to play a game, above all else. I can't agree with that as a basic premise. How did "the team" and "the game" get that prioritized position in your value system?

You may as well say that parents have nothing better to offer than "the game", which is the reason "the team" exists, after all. Surely that's not true? I know many people who never played team sports and are very successful in their lives. I know people who are sports nuts and are complete idiots too.

Sports are fine, I am sure there are things to learn and experience, but they are over-emphasized when everything else becomes secondary to that participation in a child's life. Worshiping a game is not mentally healthy for anyone, and sends a bad message to children if you are worried about what they are learning. There needs to be a rational balance in values.

I understand the value of teaching commitment and responsibility, but those games are going to get played with or without any one player unless it's a very small school. It's just not reality that the game will stop or the team is let down if a player misses one or two games for a valid reason. If most players missed a game somewhere in the season, it would be taken as normal, so who is setting these 100% must be there to play a game standards?

In any case, this isn't strictly sports versus hunting & fishing. Parents take their kids to all sorts of pre-planned and highly supervised activities other than sports, and it seems this structured schedule just rolls on year-round without end as if it were a reason for living. Something about that bothers me.

I understand the work environment is not good these days. It isn't going to get better on its own either.

 

[bgiles117]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

The family as a unit is disappearing right before our eyes.

Aint that the Truth!!!!!

 

[dave1949]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I don't know what all this talk about a drop off in hunting and fishing with the younger generation is all about. There are plenty of iPhone apps out there for hunting and fishing.

Okay, I've read this four times now and it's still way funny. :thumbsup: It has classic comedy chops.

 

[bgiles117]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

Didn't read all the responses, but I didn't see the biggie: Divorce. Mom gets the kids, she doesn't fish or hunt, the kids don't get exposed to the outdoors.

I can relate... However Mom did Garden so I got the farm bug... Now we are 33 acres happier and tractor hunting...

 

[sam5570]

Re: we are a dyeing breed

I don't know what all this talk about a drop off in hunting and fishing with the younger generation is all about. There are plenty of iPhone apps out there for hunting and fishing.

i got to agree this is funny .