Think I just tore my clutch out. ford 1520

[JC-jetro]

I'm 100% sure its a dual clutch. I tried getting a pic but the inspection hole is really to small to get the light and camera angle Just right. I saw 2 disc in there though. its really hard to see the actual thickness of the disc themselves.

Barry,

On a dual clutch disk one can not see two clutch disks. I have not ever adjusted a dual clutch but I have read the instruction for a 1517 and 1710 in FO-44 manual. There are several bolts that adjust the tension of pressure plate for the pto clutch. see if you can identify the adjustment bolts. access to them are from the inspection hole. look at the attachment below for some guidance. There is one adjustment for the pressure plate fingers and the the throwout bearing and PTO pressure plate disk tension can be adjusted. what ever you do, put some witness mark by paint or something so you can return it to where it is now.

JC,


a Fleabay link for 1510 dual clutch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1310-1510-1...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item2c71a95746

 

[barryb77]

What? wonder what I am seeing then. I clearly see what appears to be the sides of clutch disc. I went out and tried to get some pics. hopefully this helps. If you can tell, it looks like the clutch disc at the fly wheel. Then directly behind the bolt, it appears to have another disc..

Playing around with a prybar. I was spinning motor over to see what all is in there. Tractor off, transmission in gear. I can freely spin the motor without any sign of it wanting to move the wheels.

 

[JC-jetro]

What? wonder what I am seeing then. I clearly see what appears to be the sides of clutch disc. I went out and tried to get some pics. hopefully this helps. If you can tell, it looks like the clutch disc at the fly wheel. Then directly behind the bolt, it appears to have another disc..

Playing around with a prybar. I was spinning motor over to see what all is in there. Tractor off, transmission in gear. I can freely spin the motor without any sign of it wanting to move the wheels.

Barry,

yup. You do have dual clutch without a shadow of a doubt. What you have is shown naked below. with your description, your clutch disk might be gone, out of adjustment by much or the finger are heavily riding the clutch fingers. Can you see distance between the three fingers and the throwout bearing? I suggest you follow the instruction on my previous post for adjusting, can't do no more harm now.

JC,

 

[barryb77]

No I can't see back past the pressure plates' housing. Only way to see for sure is split the tractor.
I with you, I feel pretty sure the disc is probably gone. For it to freewheel like it did, then started not working. all within a few feet. Definitely a learning experience That much I do know 100%. I'll keep it updated as I get into it. I'm still working on getting my Mothers Honda Accord Motor back together. I've got that just about ready to drop back in, next I'll roll the tractor in the garage.

 

[JC-jetro]

No I can't see back past the pressure plates' housing. Only way to see for sure is split the tractor.
I with you, I feel pretty sure the disc is probably gone. For it to freewheel like it did, then started not working. all within a few feet. Definitely a learning experience That much I do know 100%. I'll keep it updated as I get into it. I'm still working on getting my Mothers Honda Accord Motor back together. I've got that just about ready to drop back in, next I'll roll the tractor in the garage.

Good luck to you Barry, Mom always comes first... no question asked. I had to do two timing belts and one CV joint on my two of sons accord and civic. I tell you , I do hate interference engines. The whole assembly is going to cost you dearly , try to check around in Fleabay for a better price. If you are not in a hurry may be do a split and inspect two pressure plates and clutch disks .. may be you can get by with changing disks only although there is so much work involved that you don't want to do this job twice. Give the adjustment a try , at least you learn the directions.


JC,

 

[the old grind]

I suggest you zoom in on fig. 167 in the pdf JC attached above. You'll want to distinguish the 3 'PTO clutch adjusting bolts' (#9 below) and be sure the clearance between their heads and the PTO pressure plate is correctly .035-.040" (feeler gauged). Pedal free-play should be 3/4 - 1 3/16" measured at the pedal pad. (This per I&T's FO-46 manual who's $25 or so will pay back quickly.) If you have to adjust either of these very far you may want to run the previous tests again. If you replace your clutch, the I&T FO-46 will give you all of this and more. Oh sorry, I'm keeping my copy. :tractor:

 

[barryb77]

If I am reading correctly and looking at the diagrams correctly. The bolt I have pictured should have a .035 -.040 gap basically at the top of the head of the bolt.

 

[barryb77]

Out of the three bolts, one I was able to get my .035 guage into. the others were tighter, maybe .030- .032 There is no way possible for me to get the wrenches into those bolts to make adjustments without cutting the access hole bigger, don't feel comfortable doing that since the loader mounting bracket is bolted there. So even to adjust them, I'd have to split the tractor.. No I haven't been able to do much to the tractor. Ive got my Mothers car 98% back together, there is literally one bolt, holding me back from finishing it. Its a special bolt, so not just available in my spare bolt bin.

 

[JC-jetro]

Out of the three bolts, one I was able to get my .035 guage into. the others were tighter, maybe .030- .032 There is no way possible for me to get the wrenches into those bolts to make adjustments without cutting the access hole bigger, don't feel comfortable doing that since the loader mounting bracket is bolted there. So even to adjust them, I'd have to split the tractor.. No I haven't been able to do much to the tractor. Ive got my Mothers car 98% back together, there is literally one bolt, holding me back from finishing it. Its a special bolt, so not just available in my spare bolt bin.

So I take it you can even take a box end or open end wrench and turn it just a few degrees at time?

JC,

 

[barryb77]

So I take it you can even take a box end or open end wrench and turn it just a few degrees at time?

JC,

No, The hole is in a bad location, There is a lock nut to the left of the hole and thats at to steep of an angle to get a good grip with a open end wrench. I tried. Just don't want to mess anything else up. I should clean up my shop go ahead and get the tractor ready for the fix. Once I get to it, It shouldn't take that long. Since the clutch rebuilders are literally across the street from the office I work out of. And the owners of the clutch shop are my office managers nephews. Maybe I can sneak in there and get the family discount.

 

[JC-jetro]

No, The hole is in a bad location, There is a lock nut to the left of the hole and thats at to steep of an angle to get a good grip with a open end wrench. I tried. Just don't want to mess anything else up. I should clean up my shop go ahead and get the tractor ready for the fix. Once I get to it, It shouldn't take that long. Since the clutch rebuilders are literally across the street from the office I work out of. And the owners of the clutch shop are my office managers nephews. Maybe I can sneak in there and get the family discount.

Nice,:thumbsup: I bet ya this work would be easier than working your mom's vehicle. It is so easy to get around and have access to all bolts. It would be great to have engine hoist for the front of the tractor. If you have a carry all then I'd put weigh on, put a wooden pallet on the back, back in to the pallet and lower the load on to where the tractor is as level as it can be. Might use would block and such that tractor is level with pressure on three point dissipated. Then all you got is to pull the front of tractor forward when you got the tractor splitted. You can use the engine hoist and jack stand to get the front steady. On my kubota shop manual they were using a wheeled jack stand to push a half back and forth effortlessly.

JC,

 

[cbumdumb]

I have rebuilt more than my share of these clutches bolts being a few thou out isn't that big of a deal . I am confused after reading all this if the clutch is slipping at all or was slow to engage . By the pictures you posted I see more surface rust than normal . How long did this tractor sit up before you got it . If the clutch isn't slipping I would run it and excersize it without load and see if it frees up some . When it delays in engageing does the clutch pedal seem slow to return ?
Is the clutch return spring under the floor board still attached ? If it is just rusted up you likely will have to work the crap out of the pedal to free it up .Also on the 20 series if I remember correctly there are grease zerts on the clutch housing where the shaft that actuates the throw out bearing .

 

[barryb77]

I have rebuilt more than my share of these clutches bolts being a few thou out isn't that big of a deal . I am confused after reading all this if the clutch is slipping at all or was slow to engage . By the pictures you posted I see more surface rust than normal . How long did this tractor sit up before you got it . If the clutch isn't slipping I would run it and excersize it without load and see if it frees up some . When it delays in engageing does the clutch pedal seem slow to return ?
Is the clutch return spring under the floor board still attached ? If it is just rusted up you likely will have to work the crap out of the pedal to free it up .Also on the 20 series if I remember correctly there are grease zerts on the clutch housing where the shaft that actuates the throw out bearing .

The tractor wasn't used daily, but it was used regularly. I had been working with it for awhile when what ever it did happened. The only thing I did different that day was go around the tractor and grease everything up. It was working fine, until I had the incident on the hill while moving a pretty heavy scraper blade. It is really hard to describe exactly what happened, because I really dont remember what happened right before the clutch started acting up. I'll try to describe what I do remember. I was backing up the hill, with said load. I was going from reverse to first or 2nd. I had it in gear with my foot on the clutch. My foot must have slipped off the brake pedal. because that is when it freewheeled down the hill about 15-20 feet. but during that freewheel, I heard a whine coming from the tranmission. like the sound gears make when spinning pretty fast. I was going down hill to where I was sitting the scraper blade. When I went to back up from that, is when I noticed something was wrong with the clutch. I could let out on the pedal, and it wouldn't move, I can give some throttle and it would start to move, but like its clutch slipping. I went to move another smaller piece. I let clutch out, and I felt a kinda voilent vibration, only did that once. Something isn't right, and for it to happen that quick tells me something is broke or etc.

To answer some of your questions, yes the clutch pedal itself returns freely. return spring is intact. I too was a little concerned about the amount of rust on clutch unit..
I had just greased that zert you mentioned. because I do have a sticking left brake pedal. I am trying to free that up. You never know, maybe there was something already broke, by me greasing up the works, might have caused it to really show itself. I really don't mind tearing the tractor apart. I kinda enjoy doing project like these. When my free time allows it. that is. When I tear into it for the clutch that sticky brake pedal is going to seize to exist.

 

[barryb77]

Alright, I finally got my Mothers Honda put back together and running. So I was cleaning up the shop and started backing the tractor in, wouldn't you know it. The roll bar is about an inch to high to clear the door. It was getting late so I'll unbolt that tomorrow evening maybe. Back it in and start tearing into this clutch issue. I'll post up pics of my findings when I get to that point. Long and drawn out process, but I am getting it done. slowly but it is getting there.

 

[JC-jetro]

Cool. Good luck. looking forward for yo to share your experience with the work.


JC,

 

[barryb77]

ALrighty!! heres what I got. Doesn't appear to be really much anything wrong with the disc themselves. Tractor split the clutch pedal moves freely just has the return spring tension. What I am thinking, is that the pieces of the pressure plate are binding up not letting the clutch work properly. What makes me think this, is because when I was removing the pins for the fingers. I had put 3 c clamps around it, to keep it from flying apart. I removed all the clamps and it didn't come apart until I tapped on it with a hammer to break it loose. In my opinion,( tell me if I'm wrong) These pieces should't be bound up.

 

[barryb77]

Oh, I should add, I spun the input shafts with my hand, put the tractor in gear, could tell it was trying to spin the tires. Also the PTO, the output shaft spun. so the hard parts seem to be working properly.

 

[JC-jetro]

Oh, I should add, I spun the input shafts with my hand, put the tractor in gear, could tell it was trying to spin the tires. Also the PTO, the output shaft spun. so the hard parts seem to be working properly.

Nice, I think the back end as far as transmission input shaft and pto shafts are working like they should. My first impression of the whole assembly is "lots of rust"!! I wondered if this tractor was partially submerged in water at some point. I would have done the same as you have done by using 2 or 3 c clamps and secured the assembly before attempting to take out PTO clutch. I'm sure taking off the whole assembly off of flywheel you slowly loosened the bolts off in a criss cross pattern not to put undue pressure on the spring assembly. I wonderd if you could put a piece of 2 by something on the pressure plate assembly for the pto and use two clamp to see if there is any spring action. My guess is this thing was frozen shut due to rust? did you get a new clutch set? how much clutch disk thickness you got? pressure plate surfaces look good and just need a bit cleaning. How much effort did you put to split them?

I wish there was easy way to manipulate 3 fingers evenly so you could clean things up , put old clutch together and did a dry run without putting two side of tractor together.

Good job so far Barry:thumbsup:

JC,

Ps. So the disk with the larger spline was for the transmission and smaller for the pto? right?

 

[barryb77]

The rusty part has me baffled as well. The tractor has sat out in the rain a few times, It usually has been parked in a barn. I was considering sandbalsting all the parts, and putting some paint on the parts to prevent future rust. clean up all the surfaces where the plates are suppose to move freely. Even though the disc appear to have good thickness. Not sure what the thickness tolerance is supposed to be?

 

[barryb77]

the larger splined disc is for the PTO smaller for the transmission.