Question about hydraulics on a 5M

[Bigfoot62]

OK, all of the experts need to chime in here.

Tractor is a 2010 5085M with 16x16 PowerReverser trans. 420 hours on the clock.
Upon startup, I have no hydraulics. None. No 3pt hitch, no loader, no power steering, no transmission.
After idling for a few minutes, I can lower the 3pt hitch all the way down, and it will usually start working again. And, once it starts working, it works fine.
Anyone else had a similar experience?

According to the book, it's not yet time for a hydraulic filter and fluid change, but I'm thinking that's my problem.
I have a new hyd filter, and will be changing it this evening, but is there anything else that I need to look for?
Thanks

 

[corey9212]

OK, all of the experts need to chime in here.

Tractor is a 2010 5085M with 16x16 PowerReverser trans. 420 hours on the clock.
Upon startup, I have no hydraulics. None. No 3pt hitch, no loader, no power steering, no transmission.
After idling for a few minutes, I can lower the 3pt hitch all the way down, and it will usually start working again. And, once it starts working, it works fine.
Anyone else had a similar experience?

According to the book, it's not yet time for a hydraulic filter and fluid change, but I'm thinking that's my problem.
I have a new hyd filter, and will be changing it this evening, but is there anything else that I need to look for?
Thanks

I know this sounds simple but is your fluid topped up?

You said when you start up it doesn't work but it does after a few minutes of idling, sounds like cold fluids, just need to warm things up?

It could be your filter and as the fluid warms up and becomes thinner it can flow through a clogged filter easier?

Just throwing a few thoughts out there, let us know how things go after the filter change.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I know this sounds simple but is your fluid topped up?

You said when you start up it doesn't work but it does after a few minutes of idling, sounds like cold fluids, just need to warm things up?

It could be your filter and as the fluid warms up and becomes thinner it can flow through a clogged filter easier?

Just throwing a few thoughts out there, let us know how things go after the filter change.

Yep, should have said that, but the fluid level is full, and it's clear. No milky color.

Cold fluid? I hope that's not the problem. It was nearly 100 degrees yesterday in my hay meadow.
Seriously, I did consider that back in the winter. But now, even if you kill the engine for a few minutes, it does it again.

Going to change the filter now. Hope that gets it. Will update later.

 

[AKfish]

Whoa... I had the very exact problem with my 5075M!! I changed out the filter; all the transmission hyd fluid (it was winter and I thought it had regular viscosity fluid) and that was not the problem. Tractor hyd function failure upon startup - continued.

The problem was a defective hydraulic manifold case. The housing case that the filter is mounted on includes the main hydraulic pump. The pump loses prime and therefore, no hydraulic function. Deere sent me a new manifold, pump and filter. The local JD shop installed it under warranty.

However, there was a shortage of new housing's due to the number of replacement's with the latest M's. So, Deere is very aware of the problem. I would not be surprised to learn that there's a product recall or retrofit for M owner's. Even those just out of warranty.

Definitely let your dealer know...

AKfish

 

[Bigfoot62]

Whoa... I had the very exact problem with my 5075M!! I changed out the filter; all the transmission hyd fluid (it was winter and I thought it had regular viscosity fluid) and that was not the problem. Tractor hyd function failure upon startup - continued.

The problem was a defective hydraulic manifold case. The housing case that the filter is mounted on includes the main hydraulic pump. The pump loses prime and therefore, no hydraulic function. Deere sent me a new manifold, pump and filter. The local JD shop installed it under warranty.

However, there was a shortage of new housing's due to the number of replacement's with the latest M's. So, Deere is very aware of the problem. I would not be surprised to learn that there's a product recall or retrofit for M owner's. Even those just out of warranty.

Definitely let your dealer know...

AKfish

Thanks for the info. Will do.

After fresh fluid and filter, same thing. That didn't fix it.

 

[Bigfoot62]

AKfish,
How old and how many hours on your tractor when that happened?

I think mine started it last fall, with about 350 hours. It's definitely gotten worse lately.
I'll call my dealer tomorrow.
Thanks again for the info.

 

[Bigfoot62]

AKfish,
Called the dealer early this morning. SM was busy. He called me back just now. I told him what was happening, and he asked, "Did you change the filter?"
I wanted to tell him what I really thought, but I managed to keep my cool. (so far, anyway)
He's supposed to fax me a parts diagram, so "we'll be on the same page."
I'll update later.

 

[AKfish]

AKfish,
How old and how many hours on your tractor when that happened?

I think mine started it last fall, with about 350 hours. It's definitely gotten worse lately.
I'll call my dealer tomorrow.
Thanks again for the info.

It started out with funky loader functions - wanna think it was around 200 hours and the tractor was just over a year old - it's a 2011 model. Kept getting worse... got so that the tractor wouldn't move until the rpm's increased to 1,400-1,500.

Then it got to the point that even with ramping up the rpm's the tractor wouldn't move right away and the power steering quit working right.

Talked to the local JD guys and they didn't have any idea - but, they didn't have any previous experience with the M series. The shop foreman kept calling around JD regional and headquarter repair folk's and finally got on the right track.

However, they had the tractor for 5 weeks before the problem was resolved.

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

AKfish,
Called the dealer early this morning. SM was busy. He called me back just now. I told him what was happening, and he asked, "Did you change the filter?"
I wanted to tell him what I really thought, but I managed to keep my cool. (so far, anyway)
He's supposed to fax me a parts diagram, so "we'll be on the same page."
I'll update later.

I'm not sure that I'd invest a lot of time trying to get "on the same page" with your sales guy... This is likely gonna go with the shop supervisor and the dealer running point with mother Deere! I never got the specific details of how the charge manifold failed - other than a comment from the shop foreman that it was a design issue and that Deere had replacement manifold's for the problem.

Eventually, the pump is damaged because of loss of fluid. That's why the hydraulics continue to get worse.

Be very interested to hear how everything works out.

AKfish

 

[corey9212]

It started out with funky loader functions - wanna think it was around 200 hours and the tractor was just over a year old - it's a 2011 model. Kept getting worse... got so that the tractor wouldn't move until the rpm's increased to 1,400-1,500.

Then it got to the point that even with ramping up the rpm's the tractor wouldn't move right away and the power steering quit working right.

Talked to the local JD guys and they didn't have any idea - but, they didn't have any previous experience with the M series. The shop foreman kept calling around JD regional and headquarter repair folk's and finally got on the right track.

However, they had the tractor for 5 weeks before the problem was resolved.

AKfish

You said it started with your loader functions how did it start? What function?

The reason I asked is lately I experienced intermittent curl failure, once in a while the bucket won't curl back out of dump position no matter what the rpm's are.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I'm not sure that I'd invest a lot of time trying to get "on the same page" with your sales guy... This is likely gonna go with the shop supervisor and the dealer running point with mother Deere! I never got the specific details of how the charge manifold failed - other than a comment from the shop foreman that it was a design issue and that Deere had replacement manifold's for the problem.

Eventually, the pump is damaged because of loss of fluid. That's why the hydraulics continue to get worse.

Be very interested to hear how everything works out.

AKfish

My bad. I was speaking with the service manager, not sales. Sorry, I didn't make that plain.
Just like the shop manager you dealt with, he said he had not heard of any issues like this with the 5M's. (some of us are just lucky, I guess)

He faxed me a parts diagram. It was here when I got home yesterday. I'll call him again and see where this goes.

I would like to resolve this at the dealer level, but I won't have any problem going "over his head" if I need to.

Thanks again for all the helpful info.

 

[Bigfoot62]

And so it continues,

Just talked to the Service Manager again. He wanted me to make sure all of the fittings were tight. Did that. Check. Same thing.
He said he would "check on something" and call me back.
I'm waiting.

 

[AKfish]

And so it continues,

Just talked to the Service Manager again. He wanted me to make sure all of the fittings were tight. Did that. Check. Same thing.
He said he would "check on something" and call me back.
I'm waiting.

There's gotta be a PID (Problem Information Description)... or whatever Deere uses to communicate to dealer's known warranty/repair issues for particular equipment lines. When the transmission stops shifting (PowerReverser is hydraulic) and the steering stops working - it ain't loose fittings!!!

However, patience is important... they'll do their homework and hopefully they'll all line up and do the right thing! :thumbsup:

AKfish

 

[Bigfoot62]

PID, TSB, PMS or whatever.
I hope they get it right. It's a pain to pay a $1000 per month note on a tractor that's not working properly.
And, we're in the middle of hay season. I NEED it to work.

 

[AKfish]

You said it started with your loader functions how did it start? What function?

The reason I asked is lately I experienced intermittent curl failure, once in a while the bucket won't curl back out of dump position no matter what the rpm's are.

Cory;

I first noticed that the boom lift was jerky, and wouldn't immediately respond to the joystick. But... it was only a matter of a couple of months and maybe another 50 hours and EVERYTHING hydraulic on the tractor was gunnysack! I did start a thread on this on TBN - JD owning and operating. I think the details are listed... That said, I don't remember the niggling details, etc. beyond the major problems.

So; the take home message is - once there's a notable problem in the hydraulic functions on the M series - I'd be looking at that hydraulic charge manifold.

AKfish

 

[corey9212]

Cory;

I first noticed that the boom lift was jerky, and wouldn't immediately respond to the joystick. But... it was only a matter of a couple of months and maybe another 50 hours and EVERYTHING hydraulic on the tractor was gunnysack! I did start a thread on this on TBN - JD owning and operating. I think the details are listed... That said, I don't remember the niggling details, etc. beyond the major problems.

So; the take home message is - once there's a notable problem in the hydraulic functions on the M series - I'd be looking at that hydraulic charge manifold.

AKfish

I've brought it up with my dealer at the time it started and haven't heard nothing yet, I will keep on them and mention the posts in these threads.

Bigfoot62, any news on your tractor? Hopefully the dealer will do something soon. I do know from experience that if you reference them to this site or print off the threads that have your problems they seem to help you a lot more cause then they see how problematic things are.

 

[Bigfoot62]

. . . Bigfoot62, any news on your tractor? Hopefully the dealer will do something soon. . .

Nothing yet. As I posted yesterday, the Service Manager said he was going to check on it, and get back to me. I'll give him a couple days to do that.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Bump.

I don't want this thread to die. At least, not until it's fixed.

Thanks to AKfish, my service manager has the phone number of his service manager. He said they would talk. I haven't heard back from him yet, but I'm hopeful. I'm right in the middle of hay season, and I really need this tractor to be working right. Plus, I don't want to damage anything else, especially if JD isn't going to fix it for free.

Is there anyone else with a 5M that's experienced this problem?

Please HELP!!

 

[Bigfoot62]

Here's where we are with the hydraulic issue:
Earlier today, I spoke with the service manager at the selling dealership. He has discussed it with the John Deere factory representative, and JD has agreed to cover the repair, only IF the manifold is defective. If it's not, the repair will be paid for by yours truly. Either way, I need to get it fixed. I'll probably try to make an appointment next week. I plan to start cutting hay in the next day or two, and I have to have this tractor to bale.

 

[wmonroe]

Hopefully you can get the issue taken care of. It's frustrating when you're relying on something and not sure if it's going to let you down. Good luck!