At Home In The Woods

[dave1949]

One difference is, when tacking or welding the two pieces, you have doubled the amount of metal that has to be heated/melted to get penetration in both pieces. You asking more from the welder in that case.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I was able to get good penetration with my practice beads on the 1/4" thick metal as you can see below. Ignore the first bead on the left. It was made with the highest wire feed speed setting.

Does anybody here think that these are good penetration? I can see that they've got some penetration into the base metal, but my hunch is that it's inconsistent and not to be trusted. What do more experienced eyes see?

I really think that you are asking your welder to do more than it is really capable of here. In more experienced hands, perhaps it could be coaxed to do the job. Hand any old instrument to a virtuoso, and he'll make it sing. But for those of more moderate skill, we need our tools to be working with us, not against us.

 

[mkane09]

I've missed your MIG specs, but I agree that I haven't seen what I would call good penetration with any of the welds. 1/4" steel may just be too thick for your welder. You could try beveling the edges of your work, leaving a small gap, make a root pass, then back fill, but if THAT won't work, then your welder just doesn't have enough uumph, uh, amps.

mkane09

 

[radioman]

again guys -- its a HF model - not a 400-600 buck machine. Its as good it will get. its enough to hold 1/4 or smaller metal pieces together when done right. OBED - the weld looks a bit better as you are getting more consistent bead now. What the guys wanted you to do was take a grinder with a grinding wheel and cut in a grove in that metal you are working with, lets say 1/4 to half way through. Lay down a weld in that groove (called root pass) you made and inspect the other side. You will see heat penetration that they are talking about. Then lay down another weld on each side of that.

 

[Obed]

It appears to me that these practice beads (ignoring the first bead on the left) have penetrated one third of the depth of this 1/4" piece. Maybe I'm not viewing it correctly. I am just a beginner. According to my welding book, 1/3 penetration is what you want.

I have seen guys on YouTube welding 1/4" steel with the same HF welder I have so I'm hoping I can get good enough to do the same. Yes, they have more experience and I'm just a beginner. However, practice makes perfect.

 

[Obed]

I tried welding several "T" joints today.



My first attempt wasn't so great.



I laid another bead beside the first one. Not great either.



I laid several beads on top of the other beads while experimenting with wire speeds and my technique. Pretty ugly - at least that's what my wife said.



Ok, now it was time to start over using the other side of the angle iron. Still really ugly.



So I cut off the old weld with the angle grinder and tried again. Still very ugly but there was some improvement.



Cleaned it off and tried again. Yep, still ugly.

 

[Obed]

I've really been struggling with being able to see what I'm doing while I'm welding. I decided to shine a work light on my work area and see if it helped.



I ground off the old weld and tried again with more light on the subject.



Actually, the last inch on the right of this bead looked somewhat promising. It had good penetration on both pieces and had just the right amount of metal.

 

[Obed]

The wire speed I was using was 3 out of 9.5 which seemed to be working. Next, I ground off the bad part of the weld but left last inch on the right.



Then I filled in the part I had ground off.



Here's my next attempt.

 

[Obed]

My technique was improving and I it appeared that I had found a good wire speed setting. So I cleaned off all the welds and tried again. This one was the best attempt of the day.



Here's the side view. The cooling of the weld pulled the T-joint slightly off of 90 degrees. This behavior is expected if you don't make some arrangements to prevent it.



I feel like I had a successful day. I'm optimistic that this last weld would hold. Sure it could be prettier but I'm not entering a beauty contest. Yes, I obviously need more practice but I saw enough improvement to keep my hopes up.

Thanks for indulging me.
Obed

 

[joshuabardwell]

Pardon me if you've mentioned it and I missed it, but is there a reason you aren't practicing on thinner metal? I still really think you are asking too much of your welder, working on metal that thick. Almost all of the welds you're showing look cold to me. You have managed to produce a few that look like they got okay penetration, but you are leaving yourself no margin for error at all. On top of that, you are really making life hard for yourself, trying to learn under such adverse conditions. I admire your persistence--I'll say that.

 

[Obed]

Pardon me if you've mentioned it and I missed it, but is there a reason you aren't practicing on thinner metal?

Joshua,
I did start practicing with thinner material. Here are the links. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/157965-home-woods-497.html#post3262898
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/157965-home-woods-497.html

I am now practicing on 1/4" metal because that is a similar to the thickness I'll be using when I mount the ball hitches on my box blade and scraper blade.

I still really think you are asking too much of your welder, working on metal that thick. Almost all of the welds you're showing look cold to me. You have managed to produce a few that look like they got okay penetration, but you are leaving yourself no margin for error at all. On top of that, you are really making life hard for yourself, trying to learn under such adverse conditions. I admire your persistence--I'll say that.

Yes, most of my T-welds were cold welds. However, the welds at the end of my practice day were much better than the first.

Yes I am pushing the limits of my cheap welder. I'm also pushing the limits of my inexperience.
Obed

 

[joshuabardwell]

Fair enough. Keep up the practice
and surely you'll get there.

 

[MotorSeven]

Without gas, these welders will never make "pretty" welds. I started on a 90 amp gasless that my neighbor gave me & I ended up converting a wave runner trailer into a 4-wheeler trailer that holds 2 wheelers. I was also teaching myself at the time and had the same troubles with penetration. You must be able to see what you are doing, or you can never push op pull a puddle. An auto-darkening helmet and good light is a must for me. Those last welds of yours will hold, and that trailer I built is still in use 13 years later.

 

[Beltman60]

Obed this is what you have to work with
I too think this has enough penetration to hold your your hitch to the box blade
if not back to the house grind area down and try again
as far as the gaping when putting your main root pass tack the other end before making the root pass and that should keep from gaping
I say go for it you can practice all you want real world welds that hold is what you need

 

[MotorSeven]

Without gas, these welders will never make "pretty" welds. I started on a 90 amp gasless that my neighbor gave me & I ended up converting a wave runner trailer into a 4-wheeler trailer that holds 2 wheelers. I was also teaching myself at the time and had the same troubles with penetration. You must be able to see what you are doing, or you can never push or pull a puddle. An auto-darkening helmet and good light is a must for me. Those last welds of yours will hold, and that trailer I built is still in use 13 years later.

 

[Obed]

Seeing what I'm doing seems to be my biggest obstacle. I pointed a work light at my target and that may have helped some. While welding, I can't really tell how thick the bead is that I am laying. I also have trouble being able to see where the two pieces of metal meet.

My helmet is auto-darkening. I have the darkness set to "10" which is what the manual recommends for a 90A welder. I'm going to test adjusting the darkness knob while welding to see if the shade control is actually working. I wonder if the shade is too dark.

 

[dex3361]

Seeing what I'm doing seems to be my biggest obstacle. I pointed a work light at my target and that may have helped some. While welding, I can't really tell how thick the bead is that I am laying. I also have trouble being able to see where the two pieces of metal meet.

My helmet is auto-darkening. I have the darkness set to "10" which is what the manual recommends for a 90A welder. I'm going to test adjusting the darkness knob while welding to see if the shade control is actually working. I wonder if the shade is too dark.

I have the same hood and use it on the lowest setting of 8 (I think). I also picked up a chceater lens, sorta like reading glasses for welding. This set up is used for my 240volt Longevity mig welder.

 

[J F]

Alright obed, we need a pic of you wearing that snazzy helmet.

 

[clemsonfor]

I think your moving the torch or gun to fast esp if your useing a 3 wire speed on that machine. You need to be "weaving or stiching" the weld very slowly at that speed. I normally use about a 5-7 speed on that machine on the thickstuff i weld, maybe more like a 6, on thin stuff i am useing like a 3. I am no expert but i do have the same machine that you have. I use figure 8's when i weld and not circles or random patterns.

 

[clemsonfor]

Without gas, these welders will never make "pretty" welds. I started on a 90 amp gasless that my neighbor gave me & I ended up converting a wave runner trailer into a 4-wheeler trailer that holds 2 wheelers. I was also teaching myself at the time and had the same troubles with penetration. You must be able to see what you are doing, or you can never push op pull a puddle. An auto-darkening helmet and good light is a must for me. Those last welds of yours will hold, and that trailer I built is still in use 13 years later.

Without gas, these welders will never make "pretty" welds. I started on a 90 amp gasless that my neighbor gave me & I ended up converting a wave runner trailer into a 4-wheeler trailer that holds 2 wheelers. I was also teaching myself at the time and had the same troubles with penetration. You must be able to see what you are doing, or you can never push or pull a puddle. An auto-darkening helmet and good light is a must for me. Those last welds of yours will hold, and that trailer I built is still in use 13 years later.

same post 52 minutes apart?