Looking at a small Haybine

[tessiers]

I am looking at the purchase of a small haybine. Currently we hay 25 acres mixed grass, mostly for our own use. Have been using a 7' sickle bar mower mounted on a Farmall H. Thinking of upgrading this year to a small Haybine. I have about 45 hp tractor and I would like to keep the price under $2000 or so. I am well acustomed to working with and repairing older equipment. That points me towards an older haybine. I figure with a 9' haybine I should be able to cut considerably faster than my current 1 acre per hour. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[AKfish]

I seriously considered an older, haybine at one time as well. The neighbors have an NH that they've used for many years (since retired it, though). I looked at the Deere models - 1207 and 1209. Short story - long: they're all sickle cut and have the roller crimp conditioner's. So, with heavy hay conditions and high moisture near the ground level (those conditions are the routine up here) they ball up and plug and break sections and guards. As well, it's pretty hard to find any with good conditioner rollers. Rubber ones; at least. Split, chunks missing. You won't get good or even conditioning of the hay.

And, when you plug those bad boys with wet hay - well, you've got your hands full - past the elbows!

Some of the NH models have the metal on metal rollers. They would be better - IMO - than the rubber ones. At least you'd be better able to adjust and control the crimping distance between the rollers.

But.... if you've got similar hay conditions (heavy, tall and lot's of ground moisture) and some frustration with your current, 7' sickle mower; I'd have reservations about going to a haybine.

My $0.02

AKfish

 

[art]

Many of the issues that AKfish brought up are there especially with the molded rubber rolls. It does make a difference as to your stone population for the roll problem but if you went with a Ih machine they did not use the olded rubber roll and had no issues with them.

A well adjusted machine would not give to many problems if adjusted right. Stub guards are a plus for better cutting and less hay left on the cutter bar. For his conditions as well as down hay you normally roll the head to the forward position and drop the reel as low as it might go as well as having it moved forward. You might need a set of bolt cutters to trim the tines to keep them out of the cutter bar but if the sections are sharp and the guards are right you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[rankrank1]

1 acre per hour??? Youch a good man can do nearly do that with a hand Sythe. I did faster than that back in the day when I was using a lowly bushog to cut hay. I can easily cut 5.5 acres in an hour with my old well worn Hesston 1120 haybine with only marginal tractor hp to run it . (Farmall h or john deere A).

In general, the worst worn out haybine is better than a sickle that is in tip top shape. While a haybine also cuts with a sickle the reel greatly helps keep the sickle clear. The haybine will perform when conditions are less than optimal. I never clog and mine is well worn. Look for a Hesston 1110 (7') or a Hesston 1120 (9'). Hesston sells cheaper than most other brands and they are made much simpler so easier to keep working when dealing with older junk. That said I am not a fan of the really old Hesston's like the old PT-7 and PT-10 models.

Hesston rollers do not delaminate like the NH rollers are prone to doing and the sickle drive system is much much simpler than a NH wobble box. New Holland is usually the brand of choice in haybines, but if the roller delaminates or the wobble box goes on a NH it will cost more to fix the machine than it is worth. I have read many horror stories on the Deere 1207, 1209, 1217, 1219 series to even consider those - people either love those or hate em. Seldom any middle ground on the Deere's plus the prices are usually outrageous too.

 

[stuckmotor]

I've only cut hay with one cycle mower, New Idea, and one mower conditioner, John Deere. They were both old, worn, and in poor condition. Rankrank1's statement about the reel helping to clear the cycle proved to be true in my case too. I had much better results with the 'haybine'.

 

[Turbys_1700]

We still use a 477 New Holland haybine here on the farm. Back 12 years ago or so we used it to cut hay for 3 small cattle farms of approximately 100 head. The last 10 years it has been used to cut hay for the neighbors and is in what I would call good condition for it's age. In it's day it was a very good machine. I can not come close to estimating the acreage of hay that machine has cut over the years but it was a lot. Still used today. Good old machine.

 

[tessiers]

rankrank1, you must be mowing in 4th gear? I currently mow in 2nd gear with the 7 footer, thats where it seams to cut best. I would be real happy with 2 or 3 acres per hour. I like my NH/International dealer real well so those brands most interest me, although we have a good JD dealership as well. I believe the Hesston falls under the Massey and that dealer is less attractive to me, but not out. I am real happy with my current sickle, however the Farmall is a gas hog and in need of rear tires. I need to put $800 in rear tires or could sell the H for $1000, so I figure I could spend $2000 and not really be out too much. I need to spend some money and thought an upgrade is in order.

 

[Tx Jim]

1 acre per hour??? Youch a good man can do nearly do that with a hand Sythe. I did faster than that back in the day when I was using a lowly bushog to cut hay. I can easily cut 5.5 acres in an hour with my old well worn Hesston 1120 haybine with only marginal tractor hp to run it . (Farmall h or john deere A).

Boy you had the IHC H or JD A "eared back"(6 MPH +) to cut 5-1/2 acres per hour with a Hesston cutter. I'll bet it was difficult to stay on the seat. I find it difficult to cut 5 acres per hr with a disc mower in the rough(Fire ants & gophers) hay fields I have.

 

[Tx Jim]

Some of the NH models have the metal on metal rollers. They would be better - IMO - than the rubber ones. At least you'd be better able to adjust and control the crimping distance between the rollers.AKfish

Although I'm not a big fan of JD Mo-Co's the 1209-1219 were some of JD's better efforts to build a hay cutter. Yes if the wobblebox bracket shows any evidence of repair "run don't walk" away. Just for the record the conditioner rolls on the above mentioned models were adjustable for both pressure and spacing.

 

[DJ54]

I've got an old IH 990 7'. It has served me well for the last 12 years, and was well worn when I bought it. It only cuts 6 acres per cutting for my horses, but works very well. I did have to replace the main drive belt, main drive chain, and the main drive sprocket, which was used, but in almost like new condition. I'll average 2 acres per hour mowing, and that's mowing in 1rst high with the IH 656. I'm not in any hurry, as I figure one cannot get any down time back if you cram an older machine too hard. Seems most years, it's tough to get a clear 4 day window to make hay, except last years drought we experienced...

As has been mentioned, the reel is great for tall, or wind blown grass. I have a lot of Rye Grass in my mixed hay, and first cutting can get pretty tall. The reel pulling it across the cutter bar, sure beats backing up, and unplugging the ol' sickle bar mower.

Just be sure you can get parts for whatever you do decide to get. Many parts are getting scarce for the older 990 machines, as an example.

 

[L355SS]

I have a 460 Haybine with the wobblebox and rubber conditioner rollers. It works very well for dry grass while the wet grass and occasional mole/gopher mound will plug the cutter and cause the following grass to lay down (instead of cutting). You only need to backup (in most cases) to clear the clog. When I got this machine the disk mowers were just coming to the market so no used ones were available. I try to mow early in the season so the growth is sparce (I don't need a lot of hay anymore) and will take less time to dry. I then roll two windrows together then bale it up with my vintage JD T10 baler.
Dennis

 

[aczlan]

We have a Ford 501 sickle bar mower and a NH479 Mower Conditioner. The NH will occasionally get a little plug (clump of hay gets over one of the teeth) but that's mainly when I am trying to cut that last 1/4 pass.
The Ford will plug up fairly frequently and if the grass isn't just right, it will collect on the top of the bar where it blocks the next batch of grass.

Aaron Z

 

[Tx Jim]

I then roll two windrows together then bale it up with my vintage JD T10 baler.
Dennis

OK I'll bite what's a JD T10 baler??? I've never seen or heard of a T10

 

[AKfish]

Although I'm not a big fan of JD Mo-Co's the 1209-1219 were some of JD's better efforts to build a hay cutter. Yes if the wobblebox bracket shows any evidence of repair "run don't walk" away. Just for the record the conditioner rolls on the above mentioned models were adjustable for both pressure and spacing.

I didn't phrase my comments the best way... that's routine for me! They're all adjustable. But, when those rubber conditioner rollers are old, worn and generally buggered up... they don't adjust for sour, owl ****!

The steel rollers are less of a problem - that's all.

AKfish

 

[D7E]

We use a pair of 12ft NH 495 's and often use a 16ft kuhn alterna disc mower alongside them and as for the job they do and performance there is very little difference . We grow mainly alfalfa so i prefer the haybines to the disc . I wiil vouch for the wobble boxes on the NH ..complete unit is over $2700 which is roughly the value of the haybines

 

[L355SS]

Thank you for your interest! Seems I am wrong again, it is a T14!!
Dennis

OK I'll bite what's a JD T10 baler??? I've never seen or heard of a T10

 

[rankrank1]

rankrank1, you must be mowing in 4th gear? I currently mow in 2nd gear with the 7 footer, thats where it seams to cut best. I would be real happy with 2 or 3 acres per hour. I like my NH/International dealer real well so those brands most interest me, although we have a good JD dealership as well. I believe the Hesston falls under the Massey and that dealer is less attractive to me, but not out. I am real happy with my current sickle, however the Farmall is a gas hog and in need of rear tires. I need to put $800 in rear tires or could sell the H for $1000, so I figure I could spend $2000 and not really be out too much. I need to spend some money and thought an upgrade is in order.

I mow in 4th gear on the JD A (4.5 mph) or 3rd gear on the Farmall H (4.3 mph). The practical limit of any sickle cutter is about 6.o to 6.5 mph max, but I do not have enough tractor horsepower to attempt those faster speeds and I do not keep my mower in tip top shape either. I do not really have the desire to go much faster anyway as ground does get rough.

I would not be too concerned about picking an old used haybine by dealer preference. I have bought very very few parts at dealer for my haybine. Most items can be bought, TSC, Shoup, Sickle Service etc. I would look at what you can buy reasonable and a design that is likely to endure. I like NH, but those NH pesky rollers will eventually delaminate and that darned wobble box is big $ when it goes. I do not like any of the Deere's. The Hesston can be bought reasonable and when you see how simple the sickle drive system is on it then it was a no brainer for me.

Your Farmall h = gas hog. My Farmall h is just the opposite. I am quite impressed on how little fuel it actually burns (relative to what it is - designed over 75 years ago and burns gas). I was nervous last year using it for raking (had to run 4th gear WOT to get any speed even on light task like raking). I figured the fuel use would be atrocious but it was not bad at all. I am so impressed with the fuel use that I will be keeping the ole h around for sure. Best of all I like the ride of that Monroe seat.

No way would I put expensive tires on an ole h. If the current tires hold air then run em. Do not need much tread for haying anyhow and as you already pointed out new tires worth more than tractor.

 

[rankrank1]

Boy you had the IHC H or JD A "eared back"(6 MPH +) to cut 5-1/2 acres per hour with a Hesston cutter. I'll bet it was difficult to stay on the seat. I find it difficult to cut 5 acres per hr with a disc mower in the rough(Fire ants & gophers) hay fields I have.

Well my figures were off a bit but not by much as the fields I am using probably measures closer to 5.1 acres. First time I mowed it took me 50 minutes to mow the 2 fields that used to take me 6-7 hours with my bushog. The h travels a little slower and adds just a few more minutes to the job.

Anyway just for the sake of argument: Travel at 4.5 mph and with a 9'3" cut haybine (use a figure of 8.75' or so effective cut to account for 6" overlap and you can easily mow 4.8 to 4.9 acres an hour without even taxing yourself at all. If you desire to go faster then than that is always always an option too or you can opt for less than 6" overlap as well to speed things up. Sometimes just for fun, I will see how little overlap I can go without missing anything - pretty easy to do with NF tractor that is very maneuverable. My whole hay operation is pretty much strictly for fun, so anything I can do to make it more interesting (that does not cost $) then I usually make some kind of game out of it to keep it interesting.

For the record: Due to no live PTO and not even a hydraulic cylinder, I mow roundy round towards the center just as outlined in old sickle manuals. In other words there is little wasted motion in my mowing pattern. I am always mowing and never even slow down for turns.

 

[rankrank1]

Thank you for your interest! Seems I am wrong again, it is a T14!!
Dennis

Try again...your 3rd guess should be the winner. I bet you have a 14T

 

[L355SS]

I should get some credit for getting all the numbers/letters right! I will get my large felt tip marker out and label this beast so I won't forget again. Thanks for the clarification.
Dennis

Try again...your 3rd guess should be the winner. I bet you have a 14T