Question for the Pond Pros

[econometrics]

I just bought a piece of property that has an appx 2 acre pond on it and I'm definitely a pond noob!

It's been there for around 40+ years, according to an older neighbor who knows everything about the whole section. :laughing:

Anyway, the neighbor to the east of me has a nice sized pond that's always full, and he hardly has any runoff geography - whereas I have a LOT. His pond feeds into mine when the levels get above his drain pipe, but my pond just doesn't seem to be holding the water.

I realize it hasn't been exactly "wet" around East TX lately, but it sure ain't been hot enough to evaporate much either. We have a well that we can use to pump the pond up, and we did that a few weeks ago. It got nice and full, so we switched the well off. It seems to have dropped around 6-8" since, however.

My older neighbor tells me that the drain pipe inside the pond is rusted out and knocked over. I went down the other side of the dam to check the discharge pipe and there was nothing coming out of it, however, and it wasn't wet around it, either.

If this pond is well over 20 years old, I would think that any saturation loss would be very minimal by now? I'm wondering if there are any other possibilities as to how this thing is losing at least 2 inches per week right now. It's very shaded around the pond, and has great run off into the pond, too. Here are some pics:

This is a Bing Maps aerial of my neighbors' ponds feeding into mine. You can see the drainage nicely here after a nice heavy rain...

Here's a topo shot from the appraisal district showing how much relief in elevation there is around the pond - lots of runoff potential...

Here are a couple of shots of the pond...

Any ideas / thoughts are most definitely welcome!

Thanks!

 

[20 20]

How deep is your pond? Do you have any idea if the pond was sealed, sand, liner, etc...... Did the neighbor say if this was/is normal for your pond? Do you have any critters digging in the banks? We have had muskrat and writting from experience it only takes them a short time(weeks) to destroy land around ponds.

 

[econometrics]

How deep is your pond? Do you have any idea if the pond was sealed, sand, liner, etc...... Did the neighbor say if this was/is normal for your pond? Do you have any critters digging in the banks? We have had muskrat and writting from experience it only takes them a short time(weeks) to destroy land around ponds.

No critters at all, and I cannot find any leaks of any kind in the dam anywhere. I'm not sure if it was lined or sealed. My initial thought is that it wasn't. That's the only logical assumption I can make as to why it would be dropping.

Judging from where the drain pipe comes out of the pond, I would think it to be close to 20 feet deep at the deepest point.

And no, the neighbor did not say whether or not it was normal for my pond. I have been guestimating on what's "normal" for it by judging my neighbor's pond - which is always full and not spring fed, like mine, and by looking at lots of old satellite imagery that shows it chock full.

I've just been assuming that since my neighbor's pond is always full, and has no real natural drainage into it (at least not as much aggressive run off potential or feed from other ponds), that something's up with my pond if it's dropping a couple of inches per week.

 

[Rustyiron]

Inspect the whole dam for seepage? I built a pond (east coast) and from talking to others that had built ponds, getting the pipe sealed was one of the big prob. for many. After 20 years you have a mystery. One buddy of mine built one and did not have any clay for the bottom. He developed leaks and was able to work in some bentonite to those areas to help but I believe they still plague him. Not knowing your Texas soils, I don't have much to offer other than seek out a local "old timer" excavator or pond builder and invite him over for advice.

 

[econometrics]

Not knowing your Texas soils, I don't have much to offer other than seek out a local "old timer" excavator or pond builder and invite him over for advice.

My soil is mostly sandy loam, and very sandy in some parts of the property... so I've thought all along that this might be a culprit.

But I agree that I need to seek out an old timer expert to check it out! :thumbsup:

As far any seepage along the dam, I just have not been able to find any - esp. not enough that would be visible if the pond is losing as much water as I think it is.

 

[RDrancher]

Looks like your soil my be fairly sandy. Even though its a clay based sand, it doesn't seal very well. The tree roots may be a problem too. Water can follow roots just like it does the outside of a underground pipe. You could try bentonite using the broadcast method to seal. Catfish will also plug holes...something about preserving their own lives.

 

[20 20]

Hmmm, your going to have to find out where the water is going. you write there is no leak at the ****. Is there any other places that it could be going out? Have there been any ground disturbances latley? I know of some cases around here where something as simple as drillings wells has screwed up an existing well.

If you can find the leak and the pond is as old as you think it might be time for a dredge job?

 

[econometrics]

Looks like your soil my be fairly sandy. Even though its a clay based sand, it doesn't seal very well. The tree roots may be a problem too. Water can follow roots just like it does the outside of a underground pipe. You could try bentonite using the broadcast method to seal. Catfish will also plug holes...something about preserving their own lives.

Definitely sandy soil, yes. I don't know if there are catfish in there, but that's a real good idea!

Is there any other places that it could be going out? Have there been any ground disturbances latley? I know of some cases around here where something as simple as drillings wells has screwed up an existing well.

If you can find the leak and the pond is as old as you think it might be time for a dredge job?

I really can't find any places where there is seepage of any kind. As you can see from the topo map I posted, everything flows down from the dam, and I'm not seeing anything down there.

But that's what I was thinking... I'm sure a good dredge would help it out a lot.

 

[Western]

I think allot of the water is going up into all those trees. Not usually good to have trees on a dam either, the roots penetrate the soil and give water a place to "leach".

You can learn all you want about ponds here
http://forums.pondboss.com/

 

[econometrics]

I think allot of the water is going up into all those trees. Not usually good to have trees on a dam either, the roots penetrate the soil and give water a place to "leach".

You can learn all you want about ponds here
http://forums.pondboss.com/

Thanks for the reference, Dennis. I will spend some time on that site, I am sure!

And yes about the trees on the dam. I cleared off about 4 16' trailer loads of saplings and other trees that had grown up on the dam a few weeks back.

Good point about the water going into the trees, though. I watched a video about a W. TX ranch of 15,000 acres or so where they cleared out a ton of trees and all of a sudden had rivers flowing all over the property.

 

[GolfAddict]

I think allot of the water is going up into all those trees. Not usually good to have trees on a dam either, the roots penetrate the soil and give water a place to "leach".

I can't help but wonder the same thing - the neighbor's pond has nearly no trees around, but yours looks like it's right in the woods. Could your pond be "watering" all those trees surrounding it?

 

[econometrics]

I can't help but wonder the same thing - the neighbor's pond has nearly no trees around, but yours looks like it's right in the woods. Could your pond be "watering" all those trees?

I think that's the best bet so far, yes. The trees are so purdy...! I guess I'm going to have to pay to keep it that way. :laughing:

Hopefully, over the next couple of years, I can get into those woods around the pond and really limb those trees up and take out a few of them to thin the area around the pond.

 

[GolfAddict]

I think that's the best bet so far, yes. The trees are so purdy...! I guess I'm going to have to pay to keep it that way. :laughing:

Hopefully, over the next couple of years, I can get into those woods around the pond and really limb those trees up and take out a few of them to thin the area around the pond.

I agree. I'd sure rather have your than his! :thumbsup:

 

[Western]

I agree. I'd sure rather have your than his! :thumbsup:

X's 2
I would clear the dam off without question though, you may end up having to put bentonite on the dam face when all the roots start to on a degrade.

What would look really nice, is a windmill with separate well to circulate your pond and add water, but that would be some $$. If I was going to blow a bunch of cash, I'd dredge (sp) it out. Clean all the washed in fill out and deepen it.

 

[MBTRAC]

IMO - it'll be the trees that are the most likely culprit, in the walls they can cause cracking (particularly if the water level drops below their root level, they die or the roots contract during a drought) & in hot climates it's surprising how much water than can leech from the surrounding ground throught transpiration.

 

[vtsnowedin]

An acre of trees puts more water into the air then an acre of open water. The surface of all the leaves are busy doing photosynthesis which uses and releases a lot of water. But before you cut back all the trees consider that the shade they provide help keep the water cool and make it a better habitat for fish etc. Maybe cut off the dam and one side and leave the deepest side shaded for a fish sanctuary.

 

[20 20]

I'll agree the trees that are "close" or on the **** may be causing leaking by way of roots, but I would strongly disagree with a clear cut. Some folks do not realize in a drought trees can actually supply 50+gal each, per night back to the earth. Sure they drink a bunch but they also provide shade and other quilities that actually help keep water. I lived in TX years back in an area that was mostly country with plenty of tree life, healthy rivers, etc... Now the same area is basically a concrete walmart, appartment complex, everystore imaginable, jungle with very low water levels. Is it because of the trees being cut, the population increase, the miles of concrete, who knows? I'd be willing to quess it's all of the above. If that pond as been functioning fine for all these yrs I highly doubt the trees are the problem, UNLESS they have helped spring a leak.

 

[rekees4300]

I'm wondering if there are any other possibilities as to how this thing is losing at least 2 inches per week right now. It's very shaded around the pond, and has great run off into the pond, too. Here are some pics:


Any ideas / thoughts are most definitely welcome!

Thanks!

Do you know if your pond has ever held water, check with your neighbors? It's possible that it is now and always has leaked into the underground. Had a neighbor once who built a nice looking pond but it never would hold water more than a month, that happens sometimes.

 

[econometrics]

What would look really nice, is a windmill with separate well to circulate your pond and add water, but that would be some $$. If I was going to blow a bunch of cash, I'd dredge (sp) it out. Clean all the washed in fill out and deepen it.

100% agree to that, Dennis! I would love to do that someday since I already have the well drilled. :thumbsup:

An acre of trees puts more water into the air then an acre of open water. The surface of all the leaves are busy doing photosynthesis which uses and releases a lot of water. But before you cut back all the trees consider that the shade they provide help keep the water cool and make it a better habitat for fish etc. Maybe cut off the dam and one side and leave the deepest side shaded for a fish sanctuary.

Good consideration here. I really do not want to cut down the trees all that much. I love the environment they create around the pond. It's very serene back there, even on windy days... and the deer LOVE it around the pond. What I DO want to do, however, is clear out the saplings and underbrush underneath the established trees, so the trees that are already there can continue to grow strongly and provide the components to the environment around the pond that you mention here. Great advice! Thank you!

If that pond as been functioning fine for all these yrs I highly doubt the trees are the problem, UNLESS they have helped spring a leak.

I do think the other main issue here is that we're in a drought still. Even the recent rains have not been enough to bring us back much. So more than anything, I'm just being picky, ha! I just wanted to poll those of you here with pond experience to make sure I wasn't overlooking something as a noob.

Do you know if your pond has ever held water, check with your neighbors? It's possible that it is now and always has leaked into the underground. Had a neighbor once who built a nice looking pond but it never would hold water more than a month, that happens sometimes.

I need to ask my older neighbor. I'm sure he would know. Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[20 20]

Econometrics; Ponds can be odd, I have dug around 15 or so and everyone was different. I was asked to dig one less then a mile away from mine, it was a no go, the soil there is all sand. Dug another one 3tenths of a mile away had to go through 4' of beautifull black soil to get to a nice clay base.The black soil is great for plants but worthless for a pond. I have been lucky enough to hit springs in a few, which works great once the pond is done, but can be a PITA while digging. If your still in a drought in that area your pond may be trying to keep the natural water table full, causing the actual pond to lose water depth(?)

Maybe you have an elephant sneaking in at night sucking down your pond :laughing: