Comparison Fresh LS Tractor J2030H info

[Singalo]

Well. Today was a full day, many miles logged and new intel uncovered.

9:30 am this morning, I was at the New Holland dealer in Auburn NY to look at the Boomer 25, which is the equivalent to the LS J2030h. I went to look at this because finding the J was proving to be nearly impossible. First impressions were good as far as the tractor goes. Though I found out that the cowl and fenders were plastic. Not a fan of this. Got to see the rocker pedal up close. Don't know how I feel about that, would need some real seat time to evaluate. Cockpit layout is as good as any tractor I have seen and liked. Electronic PTO engage is a nice bonus. The loader on the Boomer 25 is abysmal however. The hoses are "Spaghettified" and the couplers are directly underneath the right foot board exposed to pretty much everything. And a hydraulic line is drooping down running somewhere to the back. The FEL was enough to make me Give up altogether. The tractor all by itself seems like a nice unit though. TLB with 60" MMM was quoted as 27k and change.

Dismayed with what I saw at the New Holland Dealer, I next went to the Fair Grounds to get my first look at the J, which is owned by Paige Equipment out in Williamson NY. Luckily for me, I didn't have to drive an hour and a half out there to see it. Tractor for tractor, the only differences I could detect were in the badgeing and the color of some plastic bits. The instrument panel was slightly different also, with the LS having an analog Tach and the Boomer having a digital. But the real surprise was in the FEL. New Holland uses their own loader I guess. The FEL on the LS was FAR superior in both overall design and in the hydraulic layout. The hoses are for the most part all hid, the couplers are protected on the back side of the FEL arm. The joy stick on the New Holland was a bit nicer being built into the rear fender. But the short joystick on the LS is in perfect reach and easy to use. Of the two, the LS is set up better then the New Holland. One thing I did note however was that the hydraulic speed of the loader was somewhat slower then on other tractors I have driven. Slower then the GC that I was set to buy.

The LS J series is smack dab in the middle of most SCUT sized tractors, and the smallest Cut Tractors offered by most other brands. One notable acceptation being the Mahindra Max 25. Frame wise, the J and Max are about the same size. But the J weighs like 250 LBS less and is laid out much more to my liking. The B2920 is ever so slightly larger. Actually, that may be purely an aesthetic judgement. The B's seem to me to be a bit longer and a bit narrower. But the two weigh nearly the same. In my opinion, the proportions on the LS look better. A bit shorter and a bit wider. I took a trip out to Whites Farm equipment to take yet another look at the B's to confirm this. I didn't take any measurements, but visually this seems to be the case.

Found out about how the FEL, Hoe and MMM all attach. The FEL is as simple to take on and off as any on the market. The Hoe, not as easy as some, but still not terribly complicated. The Hoe has an under carriage that mounts mid section and back by the tow bar. Two pins hold this sub frame and hoe in place. Getting the whole assembly in place is a bit more finikey on this tractor then some others I have seen. But the whole operation looks as if it should take less then ten min with no heavy lifting. However, there is a bracket that the hoe sub frame locks into that is bolted to the underside of the tractor. When ever you want to put the MMM on, it is recommended that you remove this bracket which is bolted on with 8 bolts. You don't strictly need to pull this bracket off, but I am told that it seriously impends how high you can raise the deck. I am assured that taking this bracket on and off is not difficult or takes very long. However, you still must lay on your back and do this every time you want to swap between backhoe and MMM. Kind of a pain in the nuts as far as I am concerned. Though I guess, grudgingly, this is the price for having a ridged mounting system for the backhoe. As far as connecting the MMM, once the bracket for the backhoe is removed, it's as simple as watching the New Holland Video for the Boomer 50 demonstrating how. It's really very easy. Oddly enough, the best of the three dealers I talked to for LS Tractors, Paige Equipment, didn't seem to know that the J Series had drive over decks. The pictures I saw of the decks on these look Identical in build to the NH Decks. But, maybe they are not and maybe they are not Driver over. The FEL is certainly different on the two. But I know for a fact that the Boomer 25 does have a drive over deck.

All and all, the LS J looks to be a solid tractor. Nicely layed out and plenty of features. Two features missing however that the GC did have was a backhoe Boom Float, and a FEL Boom Float. Not features that are necessarily game changing. But they are nice just the same. OH, and while I was at the Massey dealer again today, I discovered that the GC does not have a floating Deck, but a suspended deck. The Boomer 25 has a fully floating deck. I have not yet confirmed if the LS J has the same Drive Over Floating deck.

Lastly, TRIP, if you happen to read this.

With re guards to position control. I asked each of the dealers I talked to today, NH, Massey, Kubota and the LS guy what the difference is. And all four said basically the same thing. There is something called draft control, that basically keeps field plows from digging too deep. Self adjusting. Most ag tractors have draft control. These four dealers claim that every other Three Point Hitch has "Position Control". That is, you can raise or lower your implement to a given height, and then leave it. It is NOT an all up or all down situation. I explained to each in turn the notion that a "Non Position Control" Three Point Hitch does this, however over time they would "Drift". And that the difference between Position control and NON Position control was this "Drift". They all said this "Notion" was dead wrong, and that if there is any drift, that there is something wrong with the Three Point Hitch. Some tractors have slide gauges, some have positive stop quarter inching brackets that look like saws teeth. And others have a hand adjusted clamp so that you can raise and lower the Three Point Hitch to the same position every time with out having to fiddle with it. But this Drift factor is just a faulty three point hitch.

I will have more to follow with Pricing as it comes in on the J. Paige Equipment was able to quote 21k and change for a TLB with 60" MMM, but said there would be extra incentives for signing up at the tractor show this week. I note, of the other dealers I talked to, LS is THE ONLY ONE offering additional incentives for Show Goers. The GC 1710 TLB with 60" MMM was 22k and Change. The GC has some features I like better. But then the J has some features that are better then the GC. And The J is simply "More" of everything for what is looking like will be less money. The one SERIOUS DRAWBACK for the J is that the seemingly only competent dealer is 1.5 hours away. But at least I was able to find one that seems to be a real "Dealer" and not just a guy selling them out of his back lawn.

More to come.

 

[GManBart]

Now that, was a useful post. :drink:

 

[Singalo]

Awwww,,, Shucks,,,,,,,,, :cloud9:

If anyone has specific questions on the 2013 model,, I dig get a really good up close look at it today, and I will be talking to Paige Equipment this Friday at the show.

 

[mangus580]

All that and no pics to share???

LOL

 

[Singalo]

All that and no pics to share???

LOL

You know, I was totally thinking that. I had my phone on me, I could have taken a bunch but I never gave it a thought till I was driving home.

 

[Singalo]

Well, I have been at it again today, looking into what I can find with this J.

I read about two Issues. One, the fact that the cooling fan for the hydraulic fluid is run directly off the transmission instead of up near the radiator is disappointing. I will be certain to take a very close look at this set up at the fair. I will try to get some pics as well. The second Issue I read about was that the electronic PTO engagement at idle, which is 1400 rpms, is "Violent. Oddly enough, the tractor I looked at at the fair grounds has a tiller on the back, but no PTO shaft connecting it. I am certain that there are any number of reasons one could use to explain this away. Still, it's going to be hard to get a demonstration of how the PTO engages at the show. I will likely have to drive 1.5 hours to the dealership in order to get one.

After I got home last night, I was thinking that NH being one of the fairly respected names in the business, surely there must be more information, reviews, videos of the "Boomer 25". But,,,,, no. Compared to other brands, LS Tractor information, Be it under their own name or New Hollands, is a veritable desert. At least for the J series/Boomer 25. But I also noted, of the information available, testimonials from a few owners, it has all been negative feed back. I will say that none of the feed back is so show stopping that it would kill the deal all on it's own. However, when coupled with the seeming lack of interest on behalf of both New Holland and LS Tractor to promote the product, the questionable people LS gives dealer ships to, the difficulty in finding information at all, let alone positive feed back,,, It all adds up.

I am still going to give the J due attention, and follow up with it. But after thinking on it for a bit, the unknowns are just to great. The available information is just to scant and checkered. The support, even if Paige turns out to be a great dealer, is woefully lacking, at least in my neck of the woods. And the frankly shoddy way LS represents their products at the corporate level, it's all just too much. I wanted to like this tractor. I fell in love with it's size. It really does hit a sweet spot right between the SCUT's and larger CUT's. It incorporates some features missing in the GC that I really did like. It's this desire for a slightly larger, slightly more powerful tractor that drove me originally to look at the MAX and B series.

I do so want to make the J work out of me. But it's all just to dicey. I don't want or need a headache of any kind with a brand spanking new tractor. I want it to work when I need it to work, and I want access to easy support when it fails. The LS Tractors just can't put a solid guarantee on that. I grew up with a variety of old school 2wd tractors. And I know what a headache and joy they can be, often at the same time. But as a new SCUT, CUT owner, I don't think I can justify taking a chance that all of the unknowns will pan out. And that brings me full circle back to my original take on all of these "Off Brand" tractors. They all suffer from the same short comings. Some more so then others. Some may be poised to truly step up to the plate with not only a solid tractor, but proper support and reputation to match. The J has potential in spades. But for myself, LS Tractors is going to have to do a whole lot more warrant 20k of my money. If they ever do step up, and their tractors start winning accolades from the general public, and not just a handful of loyalists, some future J could very well be in mine. But they are just not there yet.

 

[mangus580]

Well, I have been at it again today, looking into what I can find with this J.

I read about two Issues. One, the fact that the cooling fan for the hydraulic fluid is run directly off the transmission instead of up near the radiator is disappointing. I will be certain to take a very close look at this set up at the fair. I will try to get some pics as well.

Like I mentioned in a PM.... This is common on the smaller hydrostatic drives. Most lawn mower/garden tractors do this. I bet if you look up under the other tractors you have been looking at, you will notice it there too. I think its because it was pointed out in the review that you realized it on the J.

The second Issue I read about was that the electronic PTO engagement at idle, which is 1400 rpms, is "Violent. Oddly enough, the tractor I looked at at the fair grounds has a tiller on the back, but no PTO shaft connecting it. I am certain that there are any number of reasons one could use to explain this away. Still, it's going to be hard to get a demonstration of how the PTO engages at the show. I will likely have to drive 1.5 hours to the dealership in order to get one.

this is the nature of any 'instant on PTO'. When you have a mechanical linkage, you can feather it. When its controlled by electronics, its either on/off. I can understand why a tiller at a show would not have a PTO shaft on it ;-) Too many ways something can go wrong with so many people around.

After I got home last night, I was thinking that NH being one of the fairly respected names in the business, surely there must be more information, reviews, videos of the "Boomer 25". But,,,,, no. Compared to other brands, LS Tractor information, Be it under their own name or New Hollands, is a veritable desert. At least for the J series/Boomer 25. But I also noted, of the information available, testimonials from a few owners, it has all been negative feed back. I will say that none of the feed back is so show stopping that it would kill the deal all on it's own. However, when coupled with the seeming lack of interest on behalf of both New Holland and LS Tractor to promote the product, the questionable people LS gives dealer ships to, the difficulty in finding information at all, let alone positive feed back,,, It all adds up.

If I am not mistaken, the J series (boomer 25) is a fairly new line. Also keep in mind.. ANYONE will complain about something bad... but its rare that someone will go search out a forum, blog, etc and write about how much they love something. Its hard to form an opinion on something using the internet alone for that reason, so much important information might be missing.

I am still going to give the J due attention, and follow up with it. But after thinking on it for a bit, the unknowns are just to great. The available information is just to scant and checkered. The support, even if Paige turns out to be a great dealer, is woefully lacking, at least in my neck of the woods. And the frankly shoddy way LS represents their products at the corporate level, it's all just too much. I wanted to like this tractor. I fell in love with it's size. It really does hit a sweet spot right between the SCUT's and larger CUT's. It incorporates some features missing in the GC that I really did like. It's this desire for a slightly larger, slightly more powerful tractor that drove me originally to look at the MAX and B series.

One important key thing I think that you need to think about, is they are still ramping up their dealership/sales network in the US. I bet if you could find any information on it, you would discover that when Kubota came to the US, things happened in much the same way. Larger dealerships are hard to find because they are already established with their brands. Most of them dont really want to bring on a new 'unknown' brand, and possibly tarnish their reputation.

I think John Paige said he has been in business for about 15 years (seems right from what I recall). When he opened up, he had a blank slate, and started with whatever import name LS was being sold under at that time. He has cycled through all of the different names, and was ecstatic to finally have the chance to sell LS tractors under their own name. He stands behind them quite well too. Not many dealers are willing to do free pickup/delivery (or onsite service) for warranty work. This is throughout the life of the LS 5 year warranty!

I do so want to make the J work out of me. But it's all just to dicey. I don't want or need a headache of any kind with a brand spanking new tractor. I want it to work when I need it to work, and I want access to easy support when it fails. The LS Tractors just can't put a solid guarantee on that. I grew up with a variety of old school 2wd tractors. And I know what a headache and joy they can be, often at the same time. But as a new SCUT, CUT owner, I don't think I can justify taking a chance that all of the unknowns will pan out. And that brings me full circle back to my original take on all of these "Off Brand" tractors. They all suffer from the same short comings. Some more so then others. Some may be poised to truly step up to the plate with not only a solid tractor, but proper support and reputation to match. The J has potential in spades. But for myself, LS Tractors is going to have to do a whole lot more warrant 20k of my money. If they ever do step up, and their tractors start winning accolades from the general public, and not just a handful of loyalists, some future J could very well be in mine. But they are just not there yet.

Honestly my take on the 'off brand' in this case is this. If New Holland trusts LS enough to build the Boomer series tractors for them, then I trust LS enough to just buy one of their tractors outright. Another major factor I used for my decision was the stories I read here from people who did have something wrong with their tractor. LS took care of it, and in many cases improved upon a possible design flaw to make it better and prevent the issue from coming back.

Another deciding point was based on a warranty claim I saw when I was at the dealer test driving. they had an R4047H (may have been a 4041) in the shop. The owner had been backing it into the lake, and pushing gravel out with a brush fork setup, to use the gravel for a driveway or something. Well, the radiator got all plugged up with 'seaweed' and for whatever reason the owner didnt bother to stop when the tractor started to overheat. The entire repair (rebuilt engine, etc) was covered under warranty. To me, this is a company working hard to stand behind their product.

I think what you really need to do, is take the drive and go visit Paige Equipment. Check out his dealership, talk with a couple of the people who work there. Express your concerns to John. Ask questions. Toss out some what-ifs. Share with him what you think the downfalls are.

He will be more than happy to take the time to talk with you about it all. He even stayed late for me one night to talk about my questions. They close at 5, and I think it was 5:30 before we left.


I forget where I saw it, but one LS dealership said something along the lines of feeling like the Maytag service guy. Once the tractor leaves the dealership, they never see them again.

 

[Mike1369]

If your thinking about dropping $27k on the NH you might as well look at the LS 5030 for about $3k more and that's with a cab and AC/Heat.... Oh and a cool radio.

When in doubt, throw more cash.

Oh and good luck with your research.

 

[Singalo]

Like I mentioned in a PM.... This is common on the smaller hydrostatic drives. Most lawn mower/garden tractors do this. I bet if you look up under the other tractors you have been looking at, you will notice it there too. I think its because it was pointed out in the review that you realized it on the J.

I am not disagreeing with your sentiment on most lawn mower/garden tractors. But then this is not exactly one of those. This is a CUT after all. I didn't lay on the ground and check out any of the other models that I looked at, so I don't know how well shielded these fans may or may not be. For that matter I can't comment on which ones I looked at have or do not have this set up. But I will certainly be laying on my back a lot at the show determining this first hand. One of the projects I have lined up is to clear 2 acres of brush land. And one of the reasons I wanted a slightly bigger tractor was to gain a bit more ground clearance. The last think i need is a half inch stump or a bit of brush jamming into an exposed fan. I would hope that any tractor that has this configuration also has proper protection. This is a consideration I had not even considered prior to reading about it as a possible issue on the J.

this is the nature of any 'instant on PTO'. When you have a mechanical linkage, you can feather it. When its controlled by electronics, its either on/off. I can understand why a tiller at a show would not have a PTO shaft on it ;-) Too many ways something can go wrong with so many people around.

Last part first. I don't disagree. I acknowledged this as such in my statement, that there are probably loads of reasons that one could give to explain why there is no PTO shaft connection. Still, if the engagement is indeed "Violent", I doubt very much that is a demonstration they would want to make at the tractor show. In any event, this is more of a concern then even the fan. Every time I engage the PTO, I don't want to have to dodge shrapnel. I don't know if this is a "Real" issue or not. But my point was that I won't be able to know for certain without driving an hour and a half out to the dealer ship. Something I may very well do anyhow. But more on the "Drive" in a moment.

As far as electronic PTO engagement goes, I have seen the JD tractors engage PTO equipment electronically with no issues what so ever. So I would not agree that this is the "Nature" of electronic PTO engagement. At least not all electronic PTO engagement schemes. I have also seen bigger tractors with E PTO engagement that do not engage violently. If there is an Issue, and I have not witnessed this for myself yet, then it is an issue with how the E PTO was implemented on the J/B25, not with E PTO Engagement as a whole.

If I am not mistaken, the J series (boomer 25) is a fairly new line.

Agreed. These are a fairly new line of tractors. But then, they are not exactly just being unveiled at the Tractor show either. J Series tractors go back at least to 2010, maybe 2009. 3 years is not an eternity. But still, 3 years is not exactly a short amount of time either. I don't think you can blame the lack of available information solely on the fact they are only a few years old. How long does LS need to update their website? John Paige told me on the phone he personally thinks that LS was hoping that New Holland would do all the advertising work for them. That has not materialized. In fact, the NH version has not been very popular, and that came directly from the NH dealer in Auburn. With the FEL on the NH, it's clear why.

Also keep in mind.. ANYONE will complain about something bad...

Agreed

but its rare that someone will go search out a forum, blog, etc and write about how much they love something.

Totally disagree. Every year that a new tractor is released from a mainstream company, reviews are posted by mainstream reviewers, and Joe Public as well. Like it or hate it, there are no proper reviews of the J by anyone that I have been able to find. And only one mainstream review I have been able to find on the the Boomer 25. I have been able to find some threads concerning both the J and the Boomer 25, but they are not exactly reviews, as much as voicing some complaint or asking questions. I think an argument could be made that there is a lack of available information, because no one is buying them in any kind of quantity, NH and LS both are not promoting them in any significant way, and also because people are being scared away from them by the only information that is available. But that's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

Its hard to form an opinion on something using the internet alone for that reason, so much important information might be missing.

With particular emphasis on the last part of this comment, I think that is exactly the problem. The Internet is the most logical place to find information. Id argue it is the #1 place for gathering information. And although what I am about to say is in no way the sole territory of NH and LS, I can tell you from first hand experience that the LS dealers I have talked to do not know very much about the tractors they are selling. The dealer selling LS tractors out of his woodshed in Pulaski, I lost interest,,, FULLY, when he told me he does not have a service department. But interest started to fade when he was reading details about his product off his own brochure. The guy in weeds port told me you can't put a backhoe on the J while I am looking at the brochure he handed me with the backhoe information on it. He has yet to call me back with pricing because his boss is out at a weeks long auction. Which exemplifies my point perfectly, that LS tractors is a side line distraction from his primary business. I have been in contact with a dealer in Indiana that I found on TractorHouse. Although he seems like a nice enough guy, he too has yet to get back to me with pricing, and is investigating questions that I posed to him. The one dealer that I have talked to, John paige, that seems to know the most about these tractors, didn't seem to think that the J has a Drive Over deck. Now I admit, it is quite possible that the J and Boomer use different Decks. But the point is when I asked John, he was not certain. Most dealers that you talk to for the mainstream brands know their tractors inside and out. Yes you can point to cases where that is not always true. But in General, the dealers I have talked to for Kubota, JD, and Massey all know exactly what is what with the product they are selling. But if this is a matter of "Degrees", then it is clear that the LS dealers are much less versed in their equipment then others.

One important key thing I think that you need to think about, is they are still ramping up their dealership/sales network in the US. I bet if you could find any information on it, you would discover that when Kubota came to the US, things happened in much the same way. Larger dealerships are hard to find because they are already established with their brands. Most of them dont really want to bring on a new 'unknown' brand, and possibly tarnish their reputation.

I don't disagree with any of this. But I think on the whole, it is quite beside the point. The point being, that LS IS early on in their game, and trying to establish themselves in the US. I think one could argue the going has been at best, bumpy. But this was never a question of rather or not LS could be a real competitor. The fact is, they are not yet competitive. And I think the point is also, that there are much more entrenched, established dealers of mainstream brands. Consumers have a choice, to choose security or to trust on faith in some of these newcomers. LS NEEDS to invest in brick and Mortar store fronts. They NEED to invest in qualified dealerships and not hand them out to people selling their product out of a wood sheds. And they need to get off their A SS and fix their sorry A SS website. John Paige told me on the phone, that the marketing is being left in large part up to the dealerships. But Shed guy ain't exactly computer literate. And well meaning people like John Paige are not exactly cut out for heading up the marketing department of LS corporate. The dealers need proper support. And at the moment, they are not getting it.

I think John Paige said he has been in business for about 15 years (seems right from what I recall). When he opened up, he had a blank slate, and started with whatever import name LS was being sold under at that time. He has cycled through all of the different names, and was ecstatic to finally have the chance to sell LS tractors under their own name. He stands behind them quite well too. Not many dealers are willing to do free pickup/delivery (or onsite service) for warranty work. This is throughout the life of the LS 5 year warranty!

I am not calling John Paige into question. He seems like a fine man and I am sure he has a good local reputation. But the point is that he is not local to me. Yes, I can do business with him, and he may very well take excellent care of me. But anytime I need anything, I have to drive 1.5 hours to get to him. I have to pay to have them come get the tractor and do the first break in service. Quoted as being $250 by John. Or I have to figure out how to get the tractor out to him. John being a great guy is one thing. But it is no less convenient for me. Not when I have a Massey Dealer 15 min away.

Honestly my take on the 'off brand' in this case is this. If New Holland trusts LS enough to build the Boomer series tractors for them, then I trust LS enough to just buy one of their tractors outright. Another major factor I used for my decision was the stories I read here from people who did have something wrong with their tractor. LS took care of it, and in many cases improved upon a possible design flaw to make it better and prevent the issue from coming back.

Well, I think you are misinterpreting my meaning when I use the term Off Brand. I have already stated that the LS version of the tractor with the FEL is FAR superior. I would not buy the NH for any amount of money with the hydraulics set up the way they are. So LS has every advantage over the NH. But New Holland has well established dealerships, where LS does not. And that is one of the primary short comings that all "Off Brands" face.

Another deciding point was based on a warranty claim I saw when I was at the dealer test driving. they had an R4047H (may have been a 4041) in the shop. The owner had been backing it into the lake, and pushing gravel out with a brush fork setup, to use the gravel for a driveway or something. Well, the radiator got all plugged up with 'seaweed' and for whatever reason the owner didnt bother to stop when the tractor started to overheat. The entire repair (rebuilt engine, etc) was covered under warranty. To me, this is a company working hard to stand behind their product.

John very well may render excellent service. I am not at all so confident in Wood Shed boy or the heavy equipment wholesaler. John is not exactly local to me. And that is the problem.

I think what you really need to do, is take the drive and go visit Paige Equipment. Check out his dealership, talk with a couple of the people who work there. Express your concerns to John. Ask questions. Toss out some what-ifs. Share with him what you think the downfalls are.

He will be more than happy to take the time to talk with you about it all. He even stayed late for me one night to talk about my questions. They close at 5, and I think it was 5:30 before we left.

This is most certainly in the cards for me. I do intend to visit John in spite of the drive. But I will still need to decide if local service is more important then what John can offer. And I said in another thread, LS would have to be offering something pretty special to be placed ahead of the very real advantages of local service. I don't think that is up to John, no matter how awesome he is. He can only do so much on price, or service. And I don't think what he is capable of will be enough to outweigh or offset dealing locally. But, We will see.

I forget where I saw it, but one LS dealership said something along the lines of feeling like the Maytag service guy. Once the tractor leaves the dealership, they never see them again.

Saying so is all well and good. But nothing speaks louder then proof. And there is a sever lack of that in any reguard, good bad or indifferent. There is not much in the way of supporting information of any kind. And that is a problem. I am not one to take anything on blind faith. Essentially, that's what it boils down to with LS. Pull the trigger and prey that it all falls together in a good way. Maybe it will, maybe it wont. I see that as problematic.

 

[Mike1369]

You must have been an English major...lol

 

[Singalo]

If your thinking about dropping $27k on the NH you might as well look at the LS 5030 for about $3k more and that's with a cab and AC/Heat.... Oh and a cool radio.

When in doubt, throw more cash.

Oh and good luck with your research.

Mike, this might be the logical choice, if it were not for the fact that the tractor you refer to is tad bit large for lawn mowing my 3 acres. (I do understand your thrust here BTW)

 

[Mike1369]

Singalo go to the LS section. Someone just posted pictures of the smaller tractors with a cab.
Looks like they have redesigned the interior too.

 

[Illini22]

For someone that grew up with 2 wheel drive ag tractors, I can't believe your even looking at scuts (3 acres of lawnmowing, who cares). For all the other things you said your going to do, you need a dk, LS 4010, grand L, etc. but you would still complain. I paid $15499 for a ck35hst with fel, add a backhoe and I'm right at the prices you are for a scut. Good luck, but I feel bad for your dealer.

 

[Singalo]

Singalo go to the LS section. Someone just posted pictures of the smaller tractors with a cab.
Looks like they have redesigned the interior too.

Thanks Mike, By LS section, I take it that you mean the LS section here on TBN, and and not the website? I'll go looking for these pics. Id Like to see a cab on the J. I saw a 2013 J yesterday, and I was overall pleased with the cockpit layout. Thanks for letting us know there are new pics. You might post a link, or I will when I find it.

 

[XSKIER]

Entertaining read.

Singalo, you're the perfect cheap tractor owner. You've already got the defensiveness, and approval seeking figured out. What's really holding you back from just buying the J already? Don't want your friends to see you on one?

 

[mangus580]

LOL, Ok mate. WTF are you talking about? What am I doing exactly that I need a larger tractor for? Exactly? More to the point, what exactly is it that you think a SCUT would not be up to? Your comment tells me you don't know a heck of a lot about anything.

Well, lets start here...

What all do you plan to use your tractor for?

I can see his point exactly. There is a reason I went as large as the R3039. Mostly for loader capacity for moving firewood. I have a decent tractor (ironically a SSCUT - Bolens Iseki diesel) that works good for mowing.

One might argue you would be better off (or maybe I should say happier?) in the end with a nice zero turn for handling mowing duty, and a larger tractor for 'work'.


I guess it really all depends on what your intentions are with the tractor.

 

[Kioti Tom]

You know, I was totally thinking that. I had my phone on me, I could have taken a bunch but I never gave it a thought till I was driving home.

He had so much information on his mind to impart to us, he had no room for thinking about pic.

 

[Illini22]

Magnus, I was being a bit sarcastic. If you haven't noticed, he's a troll as other posters have pointed out.

 

[Singalo]

Well, lets start here...

What all do you plan to use your tractor for?

I can see his point exactly. There is a reason I went as large as the R3039. Mostly for loader capacity for moving firewood. I have a decent tractor (ironically a SSCUT - Bolens Iseki diesel) that works good for mowing.

One might argue you would be better off (or maybe I should say happier?) in the end with a nice zero turn for handling mowing duty, and a larger tractor for 'work'.


I guess it really all depends on what your intentions are with the tractor.

I have stated this several times in other threads. You may not have read them, but I am fairly certain the guy I was replying to has. Hes just being argumentative for no reason. There Is nothing that the GC1710 can't do that I will be asking of it. I didn't spend over a year and a half now talking to dealers not to know the capabilities of these tractors. My whole purpose in wanting something slightly larger is to gain a bit of ground clearance. That and adding a lil more power all around is not bad thing. That said, I don't NEED more to do what I will be doing.

There will be some one off deals. For instance, clearing two acres of brush land. Brush the size of my thumb around. The Massy dealer said the Brush Hog would have NO problems tackling this size brush. From there , its a matter of clean up. I am fully aware that a larger tractor would be more efficient. But this is not about getting it done in a weekend. I will be living there probably until I retire, so I've got time. Every dealer I have talked to has told me the same thing, that a SCUT can handle this.

Another one off deal is digging some stumps out. The largest one that has to go is 12" in diameter. This is a dead Pine Tree. In fact, all the tree stumps that need to go are pine, and all are successively smaller. I have again been told by every dealer that with a bit of tenacity, any of the the SCUT's I have looked at will be able to do the job.

I have a short footer that needs to be dug for an addition, and a footer to dig for an out building. Again, a lil tenacity, nothing that the SCUT can't do.

Then there is the long term property maintenance. Blowing snow, mowing the lawn, tilling the garden.

The guy I was responding to I am certain I have seen in other threads where I have said this all b4. He's just being a pain. I am more then willing to take advice when it makes sense. But the notion that these SCUT's are some how only marginally better then a Garden tractor is stupid. Going with something Like the J series from LS would only add that much more to the ease of doing what I want to do. And somehow that gets blown up into you need a 40 HP tractor. That's just stupid. The biggest problem with LS remains the potential Service Issues. I have said nothing that was outrageously out of line. People like Gman got nothing but argument for arguments sake. They add nothing. I don't expect or even care that people agree with my take on things. They don't have to. It would be a WHOLE lot more productive to state in an adult manner why you disagree. Maybe we won't change each others minds. But the real benefit is that others can get both sides of the story and make decisions for themselves. What happens here is so many people want to Flame. And whats their biggest rebuttal to that statement? "Nuh Uh,,, you falming". I say, you are trolling. They say "Nuh Huh, you trolling". It's stupid. Id be happy, as I did with you, to debate thoughts and Ideas point for point. At the end, maybe we disagree. Why is that not a reasonable outcome? There are, no matter what people like Gman have to say about it, valid points in my arguments. Points that others searching for information on the J series would want to consider. Gman might even have some valid counter points of his own to share. But hes to busy being the Kung Fu Flame master to post them. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with people like him. It's all about the "War". Just because you have a view on something, does not make it the ONLY proper view.

 

[mangus580]

Signalo,

I just took a quick comparison look at the MH GC1710 vs. the LS J2030H, and to be honest with you price aside (since I dont know the price of either really) to me, I would much rather have the LS, and have to deal with a dealer 1.5 hours away vs a closer one.

The LS specs out to be a bigger tractor in several ways, and for the most part, not really size. The loader lifts more, lifts higher, with more force, and better angles. Same with the backhoe (with exception of total digging depth is about the same). The backhoe rotates much farther (180* vs 140*) which can mean a much when using a backhoe. I even noticed the hydraulic pump flow rating is considerably higher on the LS. One more thing I noticed, is the LS uses a Mitsubishi engine. I am not sure what brand engine the Massey has, but the Mitsu is a tried and true engine. My Bolens has a 3 cyl Mitsu in it from the early 80's. Runs like a champ, and i never touch it.

Also, I dont know what the MH warranty is, but I know its 5 years on the LS. Knowing the supplying dealer is willing to cover any 'travel' costs for warranty work for the entire 5 years kinda makes the 1.5 hours away a moot point. I do understand that for 'routine maintenance' that may be an issue, but honestly that maintenance is mostly oil/filter changes. Its something that any DIY'r can handle. By the time said 5 year warranty expires, its very likely you may have another if not several other dealers available....


Another interesting tidbit to ponder (and I really dont know what your budget is...) But I compared the J series dimensions to the R series that I bought. The R is about 10" wider, and 15" longer. Really, thats not 'that' much bigger physically, but a heck of a bunch more tractor!. I know the R series does have an available mid PTO, although I am not sure if they have a MMM for it....


Long story short, based on what I have seen of LS's reputation for quality, their stellar 5 year warranty, Paige's 'free warranty transport', and the impressive specs of the J vs the GS; Hands down, I would choose the J. I would have no issue buying from a dealer 1.5 hours away. I have no intentions of having to use the dealer for very much at all, and especially nothing really thats not warranty work.