Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program

/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #1  

955Lincoln

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
371
Location
South PA/Western MD
I have had it with taxes. My assessed value increased by a factor of 2.5 in one shot and I haven't done anything to the property since I bought it 3 years ago and it's just wooded mountainside with no structures. The county is really pushing the Clean and Green option but it sounds too good to be true. It will lower my value by a factor of 19. I was never planning on subdividing the property and the only negative I'm seeing is in selling the property. If I couldn't find a buyer who wants to keep it in the program then I would have to pay the difference in the taxes for a maximum of 7 years in arrears plus 6% interest. To add insult to injury I get no benefits because I'm an out of state owner. I don't even use Pennsylvania roads because I enter the property from another state.

Is anyone in this program or have any suggestions on what to do? I just can't handle this much of a tax increase on unimproved property.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #2  
I live in PA and own 345 acres which are in the Clean & Green program. It has saved me many thousands over the years. I have no intention of subdividing the land. For me it made the difference between keeping the land or selling it.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #3  
By the description of the land it seems the land is more or less a recreational property, I would think if it was in clean & green and you were to sell it the reduced taxes would be a draw to a buyer. We have 3 separately deeded pieces of ground, 1 acre with our home, 150 acres with farm buildings, fields/pasture/meadow & timber and 125 acres of mountain ground. The 2 larger parcels are in clean & green. The prior owners enrolled the ground in the program from its beginning and the combined tax bill is about 40% less than the taxes we pay on our home with 1 acre. There are stipulations with the use of the property for business & limitations as to the size of lots if you were to subdivide and limits on the # lots that can be sold/year. I think it would be to your advantage to look into the program.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Thanks for the information Storm and Pineridge. Yeah, 150 acres and I was planning on building a retirement home but now I'm on the fence with that idea and this tax increase gave me thoughts of selling the property. It almost seemed like a setup and I just didn't trust what the guy was telling me. They will deduct 1 acre if I decide to build and I would have to pay back taxes on the 1 acre.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #5  
I may be mistaken but I think that if you were to build they would not reclaim the taxes on that 1 acre. For sure they will pull it out of the program for future taxes. I did have some friends that did just that and they never mentioned anything about having to pay back taxes on that 1 acre. Of course things could have changed.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I may be mistaken but I think that if you were to build they would not reclaim the taxes on that 1 acre. For sure they will pull it out of the program for future taxes. I did have some friends that did just that and they never mentioned anything about having to pay back taxes on that 1 acre. Of course things could have changed.

The person at the tax office told me I didn't have to repay the taxes on the 1 acre but the information sheet that he gave me said that I would have to. I may have been reading it wrong however. Either way, not a big deal and I'm feeling much better about this program from the feedback so far.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #7  
We have a program in Maine called Tree Growth Be Woods Wise - Maine's Tree Growth Tax Law that sounds about the same. It's the only way we could afford the taxes on our 110 acre lot with river frontage. We kept 2 acres (town minimum lot size) out for our house. We have to update a forest management and harvest plan every 10 years. Of course like everything else there are people that abuse it, mostly on the coast. The minimum lot size to enroll is 10 acres and I think that needs to be increased to cut down on some of the problems.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #8  
I have 36 acres in chester county, pa and have been in act 319 (Clean and green) since we bought it. It has saved me alot of money. They tax your land value seperately from the value of structures on the property. Act 319 reduces the assessment on the value of the land portion. I have saved about 35-40% a year. If you sold to a developer they would be responsible for the back taxes if they chose to develop the land and take it out of 319. I would definitely go for it if you plan on keeping the property.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #9  
I don't believe you should have to pay the back taxes if you build a home we didn't. We subdivided 37 acres with the original farmhouse and barn and was going to add our home on 1 acre back onto the farm deed and was told they factor in a base acre for a residence whether it's there or not so there supposedly wasn't any tax savings to add the residential lot. If you build a house, the assessment on the base acre will increase but the remaining 149 acres should be at the Clean & Green rate.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #10  
I have 20 acres, with most of it in clean and green.
Its not a retroactive thing where if you build they come at you for back taxes. Its to cut down on junkyards and landfills. Its one of my issues with the pipeline people, if the pipeline goes in my taxes would go up.
the local dept of ag can fill you in more but its a quality easy to use program.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program
  • Thread Starter
#11  
We have a program in Maine called Tree Growth Be Woods Wise - Maine's Tree Growth Tax Law that sounds about the same. It's the only way we could afford the taxes on our 110 acre lot with river frontage. We kept 2 acres (town minimum lot size) out for our house. We have to update a forest management and harvest plan every 10 years. Of course like everything else there are people that abuse it, mostly on the coast. The minimum lot size to enroll is 10 acres and I think that needs to be increased to cut down on some of the problems.

10 Acres here also. My property would be classified as forest reserve. They seemed a bit vague but assured me that I didn't have to do any forest management because of something about my property?? It seems like the main push here is to stop over development while taking a hit on tax income which I find refreshing in this day and age. The information sheet says there are more than 9.3 million acres in the program.

I'm curious about the abuse and how increasing the minimum size would help? Do they just plant a few saplings here and there and call it good?
 
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/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #12  
We had to put our land into a timber valuation to save on taxes. We bought our land at the end of a 5-7 year period of property valuations so our taxes were very low. The next valuation increased or taxes by a factor of 2-3. Without a timber valuation, we would have had to have sold land because we could not afford the property tax. Since we had timbered the land it was easy for me to draw up a timber management plan and lower our tax value.

Check with your county and state extension offices. In NC, they had classes as well as documents to help go through the process. I have gone to a couple of evening meeting/classes to keep up with the process.

Later,
Dan
 
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/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #13  
Here in Catawba County if you own over 10 acres they value your property at market value but then apply a factor to lower the actual taxes on the property...
For example, the farm that I live on is approximately 100 ac. and has an assessed tax value of over $45K...
The taxes are around $330 per year...
My house is on the tax books at around $135K but the taxes are aound $750 per year...
I think that if we were to sell any of our property then the difference in the tax rates are assessed for a 3 year period...
I don't know the specific name of the program but it seems very similiar to yours in Pennsylvania...
I would assume most other states have some kind of tax structure to help reduce the tax burden to large land parcels considered farm or non residential or commercial...
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #15  
Some of the examples just make me shake my head at how whacked out our property tax is in MI. I have 1/3 acre with a 1300 sq ft floorplan home sitting on a garage / 600sq foot basement and I am paying more than $3600 per year. Living in a neighborhood with a median income of $45k/household... My next door neighbors house just sold for $140k, one up from him sold for $18k after being on the market for 2 years (no mortgage but lost his job and got behind on property tax, so the county foreclosed).
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #16  
Some of the examples just make me shake my head at how whacked out our property tax is in MI. I have 1/3 acre with a 1300 sq ft floorplan home sitting on a garage / 600sq foot basement and I am paying more than $3600 per year. Living in a neighborhood with a median income of $45k/household... My next door neighbors house just sold for $140k, one up from him sold for $18k after being on the market for 2 years (no mortgage but lost his job and got behind on property tax, so the county foreclosed).

There is a property near me that is for sale at $150K. But it is in a water and sewer district, and it has a 100K assesment on it. The township owns it. I don't see it selling anytime soon.
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #17  
Just went through this here in NEPA. The county reassessed in 08 or 09. And the taxes went up from 516.00 to 1300. Its 13 acres, unimproved,no house, shed, or access.
We closed on it early this year, so the previous owners did not appeal, as they where retired, and too busy trying to fight the tax increase on the resident property.
The appeal process is in front of a board, they can either be in a good mood or a bad mood,so you neverknow how the outcome will be. My approach was to get a certified appraisal first, as the board will likely give you credit from a baord certified realtor assesser, besides they do thorough job on the appraisal and are likely to weigh in your favor if you are paying them. Then go to the clean and green as that amount is set in stone as a percentage I think. (I missed the clean and green deadline this year).
My appraisal costs 300.00 and was board certified, it showed like property values and used them to justify the appaisal,all printed on 8X14 sheets with color photos. My 13 acres was county assessed at 90k, the appaisal value came up with 61K, I payed 60K.
I spoke in front of the board and referenced the appaisal,and interated that at the time the county reassed the value, the reality market was at its peak, but this was due by fraudulent banking, realitors,and lenders,falsly increasing property vales,and PROVEN by the US congress. I found creditable information online from the FBI investigation on years 2009 and 2010 which I showed the board and it clearly identified PA as being in the top 10 states under investigation.
Anyway, I got my new taxes inthe mail last week and they dropped by 1/3rd. Now I have to do the clean and green for the fixed discount.
I believe the appraisal was the big hitter as the board fell right in line with that amount or slightly over it by 9 percent. Otherwise it would have been another bleeding heart story,and I am sure they here them daily with little remorse.
Build your case, and appeal,there is a deadline though for the year, as the board will here cases in the fall, well past the clean and green deadline, so you'll wanna do it now if ya can, so you can clean and green next summer. Otherwise, if you go clean and green first,they may not be as forgiving as you will be already recieving a reduction.
There was a fee of 100.00 dollars to appeal, (50.00 per deed)I have two 6.5 acre tracts side by side. I feel they should have been returned after proving my case and winning, but then again,this is Pennsylvania,and there are plenty of crooks here in the county countyhouse.
They have arrest 34 courthouse employees over the past 4 years, starting with these two judges
Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for cash' scandal - CNN

Do your homework, have solid evidence and supporting documents from reputable references and you will reduce your taxes! If you are as fed up as I,it really become more of a mission,and you'll be happy with the reward! Otherwise they win and you will just be handing the money over from the next owner, stand up,stand tall and go to bat!
I am personally fed up with the county,I live on the very border of the county line,and we don;t seemuch of any improvments, let alone a snow plow. Screw em!
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #18  
Lots of folks moving here to NC from up north...
No wonder...
 
/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program
  • Thread Starter
#19  

Thanks forgeblast. The first link is the information sheet they gave me. Not that it matters much (for 1 acre) but doesn't it say that you have to pay rollback taxes on the 1 acre if you do a split-off for a home? There was a discussion about this earlier.

"MAY I SELL OR DIVIDE MY PROPERTY WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY ROLLBACK TAXES?
The Act allows for two types of divisions or conveyances: "Split-offs" and "Separations." A split-off is a division, by conveyance or other action of the owner, of land, into two or more tracts, for use of constructing a residence. No more than two acres may be split-off per year except if the municipality requires a minimum three-acre subdivision to construct the residence. Cumulative split-offs may never exceed 10 acres, or 10% of the total land originally enrolled, the lesser of the two. Rollback taxes would be due only with respect to the land split-off."

"Separation is a division, by conveyance or other action of the owner, of land into two or more tracts of land that continue to be in Agricultural Use, Agricultural Reserve, or Forest Reserve. The tracts must usually be at least 10 acres in size and continue to meet the qualifications. No rollback taxes would be due."
 
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/ Pennsylvania Clean and Green Tax Program #20  
my understanding is that you would be assessed on any improved land, meaning the house and barn etc. That is the way it is with us. If I clearn part of my property and put in a bigger (more then 10x10) shed, etc then I would also be reassesed for taxes. I dont have my tax bill in front of me, if I find it when i get home ill see what it says about clean and green.
When we bough our house in 2003, it was already enrolled in it, and it came up in the title search. We were not sure what it was and our lawyer researched it for us.
 

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