Grid-tied solar

[DarkBlack]

That's why in Texas, Arizona, Neveda, New Mexico, PV is a more reasonable cash risk. Up in rainy, foggy, humid, snowy, short days, New England, it's for people to do as a hobby. You need a lot of dry weather to make the #'s work.

 

[tcartwri]

Amazing the negativity that solar and wind energy draw out of people who then think nothing of spending $50K on a diesel pickup as a daily driver, on the remote chance that they 'might' need to tow something one day....

 

[Travelover]

Amazing the negativity that solar and wind energy draw out of people who then think nothing of spending $50K on a diesel pickup as a daily driver, on the remote chance that they 'might' need to tow something one day....

Shhhhh...it is not nice to point out the obvious. :laughing:

 

[meburdick]

Amazing the negativity that solar and wind energy draw out of people who then think nothing of spending $50K on a diesel pickup as a daily driver, on the remote chance that they 'might' need to tow something one day....

We all understand that cars have a shelf life and they are a "necessary evil" for many of us. Without one, we don't get to work in many cases. If you don't spend that money, the alternative is to not work, not have an income, not afford a house, etc.

The alternative to dropping a large chunk of money into solar is to simply pay for electricity from the PUC.

 

[Travelover]

We all understand that cars have a shelf life and they are a "necessary evil" for many of us. Without one, we don't get to work in many cases. If you don't spend that money, the alternative is to not work, not have an income, not afford a house, etc.

The alternative to dropping a large chunk of money into solar is to simply pay for electricity from the PUC.

I think Tim's point was about buying a $50K truck, as opposed to affordable transportation to work.

 

[meburdick]

I think Tim's point was about buying a $50K truck, as opposed to affordable transportation to work.

As opposed to what, though? A $25,000 car and a $10,000 truck for the times when you tow? And, neither of them having any "luxuries"? My truck is expensive because I spend a LOT of time in it and I want to be comfortable when I do. Have you ever driven 15 hours in a day in a Civic DX? I have, and for someone of my size, that makes for an immensely unenjoyable drive. My "daily driver" is actually not driven daily because I am able to work a good chunk of time from home. But, when I do have to go on the road, the trips aren't short.

While I can see his point for those people that buy the Porsche Cayenne just so they can say they drive a Porsche (as opposed to buying a minivan that's much more functional), I agree that it's a waste of money. But, guess what? Those are the same folks that don't care if gas is $10/gallon or electricity is $1.00/kwh.

Again, though, you have to look at ACTUAL cost versus perceived cost. Even my $50,000 truck will have a significant amount of residual value when I am ready for a new vehicle. When you compare the depreciation $$$ of my vehicle to that of, say, a $25,000 sedan, I won't lose considerably more from my original investment. And, in the meantime, I'm much happier driving it, more rested when I arrive, and I can haul all of the things that I need to / when I need to without having to rent / borrow / own a different vehicle. There's some validity to his point, but I take exception to it being painted with broad strokes.

 

[tcartwri]

:reading:

See... you can spend your money as you choose, even if it makes absolutely no rational sense to another.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

another angle is...the amount some spend on backup generator systems vs. the amount of time you actually use it. But if you live in hurricane prone areas, I can fully understand.

 

[meburdick]

another angle is...the amount some spend on backup generator systems vs. the amount of time you actually use it. But if you live in hurricane prone areas, I can fully understand.

To me, a generator is somewhat analogous to "insurance". If you're in a neighborhood that is prone to power loss (for whatever reason), then spending more money may be acceptable. If, like me, you tend to almost never lose power, building in an auto-start, propane / LNG powered 25kva generator with an auto-switch is absolutely pointless.

That general thinking can be used to understand why people in Southern states are more interested in PV solar power than most of us in places like New England. All areas of the Earth receive the same amount of daylight over the course of a year. But, in the Southern states, the light is stronger because of the difference in weather (less clouds / rain). So, the opportunity exists to run a system at full power output for more hours per year, allowing you to get more out of the system. Additionally, the further South you go, the more "constant" the number of hours of daylight per day. In the Northeast, we vary from about 9 to about 15. In Texas, the range is more like 10 to 14.

 

[Travelover]

:reading:

See... you can spend your money as you choose, even if it makes absolutely no rational sense to another.

:laughing: I think you hit a sore point.

 

[meburdick]

:laughing: I think you hit a sore point.

The "sore point" is that I read a LOT of threads. And many substantive comments go "a little too far" because they are over-generalized. If the comment had been pointed directly at people that spend way more money than they need to on a "daily driver" for absolutely no justifiable reason, then I would have whole-heartedly been in agreement. I happen to have good reasons for having spent a lot of money on a vehicle, but I get lumped into the "wasteful" class by the comment because of how it was made.

 

[tcartwri]

We need to invite the wives into this discussion now .... for a truly balanced viewpoint.

 

[cmore]

I have no issue at all with spending your $ on what ever u want. What I don't like is the tax money give a ways that I am forced to join in on.

 

[tcartwri]

I have no issue at all with spending your $ on what ever u want. What I don't like is the tax money give a ways that I am forced to join in on.

Well then you should look into the grants and interest free loans that all generation/utility type companies receive. Nuclear being the biggest gorilla in the room.

 

[cmore]

Well then you should look into the grants and interest free loans that all generation/utility type companies receive. Nuclear being the biggest gorilla in the room.

Don't like them either but at least can see a more direct connection to me. I might be using some of their generated power.

Way to many tax loop holes for the rich and powerful (co's and ind's).

 

[sdkubota]

Well then you should look into the grants and interest free loans that all generation/utility type companies receive. Nuclear being the biggest gorilla in the room.

That is an absolute myth and the so called "subsidies" are business expense deductions that every other business gets in this country. Gas, oil, nuclear and coal industries have paid their way from the beginning and in fact most have a smaller profit margin than any other business group. The record millions in profits is based purely on the huge volume they do. I thank God these companies keep exploring and providing us with the energy we need.

 

[dave1949]

After one month of operating my solar system, which I sincerely thank all of you for subsidizing :laughing:, it has generated 439.1 AC kWh's. The model predicts 383 AC kwh's for August. I had one week of operation in July, but July is modeled for 341 AC kWh's, less than August.

Since my net meters were installed July 30th, they have recorded 245 AC kWh's in from the utility and 272 AC kWh's out from my system, I am 27 kWh's to the good.

This is actually better than I expected since I added an electric water heater to my load that wasn't there before.

It's certainly true that the South and Southwest has more solar potential. The trade-off is the higher average temperatures reduce their panel efficiency, and they require more power for air conditioning. You can see US solar resource (insolation) maps here: NREL: Dynamic Maps, GIS Data, and Analysis Tools - Solar Maps

 

[Scooby074]

Amazing the negativity that solar and wind energy draw out of people who then think nothing of spending $50K on a diesel pickup as a daily driver, on the remote chance that they 'might' need to tow something one day....

:thumbsup:

And all this talk of "value" of the system in 20 yrs... Well I bet a solar power system would depreciate less than my truck... My F150 that cost close to 60k when new is now worth a mere 15 on a good day, in less than 10 yrs. And even if the solar system was worth less, at least during its life it would have GIVEN me something back ("free" energy) as opposed to just costing... and costing.. and costing.. like my truck

Good on you Dave! Someday I hope to have a system such as yours.

 

[Robert J I]

Hello from down under!
Hey guys you have forgotten the golden rule of utility companies in your sums and payback time. Prices are may be expected to increase for whatever weasel worded reason. Usually "equipment upgrading" huh!
Here in NZ we annually get a price rise of 10% a year. We have a varied pricing structure ranging from NZ 23.51c/unit to NZ25.48c/unit.
My next house due soon? I will have a solar system included with the build. Currently here depending on plumbing charges for any changes going solar cost around NZ$13,000.
Go for it.

 

[RobertN]

I just checked ours. This is from sunny N. Calif, about an hour east of Sacramento in the foothills. Today was sunny and clear; we generated 29.82kWh. 7/27-8/25 we generated 916kWh from our 5kW system.

After one month of operating my solar system, which I sincerely thank all of you for subsidizing :laughing:, it has generated 439.1 AC kWh's. The model predicts 383 AC kwh's for August. I had one week of operation in July, but July is modeled for 341 AC kWh's, less than August.