Battery discharging fast

[trockyh]

I have the CK30 with a fairly new battery. My neighbor checked the battery and alternator and they are good. Problem is an open(?) circuit with the ignition off. I tool the negative clamp off the battery and put volt meter on positive post of batter and negative on the disconnected clamp and it showed 12+volts.
I've checked all fuses, taken the dash apart and disconnected one item at a time but still had voltage draw.
I'm thinking maybe a stuck regulator? Any ideas of where/how to check?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[murphy1244]

Diconnect the positive and run a ammeter between the cable and battery.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Diconnect the positive and run a ammeter between the cable and battery.

Correct. There is no such thing as voltage draw. The 12v you measured may be normal. You need to measure current - amperage - flowing from the battery to the tractor wiring.

 

[k0ua]

From the title of your post, I am assuming ( yes I know what assuming means) That your battery is discharging rapidly, in other words, large current draw with the key off.? If that is the case Use the ammeter function of your Multimeter. Start with the 10 amp setting or higher if you have it, and disconnect items until found. If I was taking a guess. perhaps bad diodes in the Alternator, as it is still connected to the battery even with the key off. Please give us more detailed information of what the symptom is and what steps you have already taken to measure current, and or which circuits have been disconnected. Also do you have a wiring diagram of the tractor?

James K0UA

 

[trockyh]

From the title of your post, I am assuming ( yes I know what assuming means) That your battery is discharging rapidly, in other words, large current draw with the key off.? If that is the case Use the ammeter function of your Multimeter. Start with the 10 amp setting or higher if you have it, and disconnect items until found. If I was taking a guess. perhaps bad diodes in the Alternator, as it is still connected to the battery even with the key off. Please give us more detailed information of what the symptom is and what steps you have already taken to measure current, and or which circuits have been disconnected. Also do you have a wiring diagram of the tractor?

James K0UA

Thanks for the replays, I think I found the culprit. I took the starter and preheat relay out and I stopped getting an arch at the negative post when I put the clamp on. Now I need to find the part number and if it is a common relay can I purchase at an auto parts store?
Thanks again.
Tom

 

[murphy1244]

Thanks for the replays, I think I found the culprit. I took the starter and preheat relay out and I stopped getting an arch at the negative post when I put the clamp on. Now I need to find the part number and if it is a common relay can I purchase at an auto parts store?
Thanks again.
Tom

Thats one way to skin a cat... Look ma no meter....

 

[k0ua]

Thanks for the replays, I think I found the culprit. I took the starter and preheat relay out and I stopped getting an arch at the negative post when I put the clamp on. Now I need to find the part number and if it is a common relay can I purchase at an auto parts store?
Thanks again.
Tom

Um.. I would not pop the champagne cork just yet.. you may have only found a symptom of the problem and not the true problem.. the preheat relay, is a pretty simple device, under control usually from a pre-heat controller to control its coil so that it will pull up and make its contacts. Is this relay energizing when it is plugged in? if so it is doing precisely what it is controlled to do. and may not be defective. If so why is there a voltage on its coil? this would come from the preheat timer controller circuit.. thru the key. right? we may have more trouble than a defective relay. and maybe not, perhaps the coil is not energized and the relay contacts are just stuck, and not under control. Could you figure out the relay connections to tell which are contacts (large wires) and which are connections to energize the relay? (small wires) As for buying the relay at an autoparts store, I doubt it. Most likely the dealer. I hate to be such a half empty glass guy, but in over 40 years of troubleshooting, I have found that sometimes things are not always as they seem. I hope it is something as simple as stuck relay contacts. I don't have a diagram of your tractor, perhaps someone else could help here. Good Luck

James K0UA

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

You are headed down the right path but I would consider a replacement key switch first. Key switch and relays will be purchased from dealer. Key switch not so reasonable - relays very reasonable. Most all dealers, well us, stock all those items.

 

[murphy1244]

You are headed down the right path but I would consider a replacement key switch first. Key switch and relays will be purchased from dealer. Key switch not so reasonable - relays very reasonable. Most all dealers, well us, stock all those items.

Thats what i'm thinking, key switch.

 

[trockyh]

Um.. I would not pop the champagne cork just yet.. you may have only found a symptom of the problem and not the true problem.. the preheat relay, is a pretty simple device, under control usually from a pre-heat controller to control its coil so that it will pull up and make its contacts. Is this relay energizing when it is plugged in? if so it is doing precisely what it is controlled to do. and may not be defective. If so why is there a voltage on its coil? this would come from the preheat timer controller circuit.. thru the key. right? we may have more trouble than a defective relay. and maybe not, perhaps the coil is not energized and the relay contacts are just stuck, and not under control. Could you figure out the relay connections to tell which are contacts (large wires) and which are connections to energize the relay? (small wires) As for buying the relay at an autoparts store, I doubt it. Most likely the dealer. I hate to be such a half empty glass guy, but in over 40 years of troubleshooting, I have found that sometimes things are not always as they seem. I hope it is something as simple as stuck relay contacts. I don't have a diagram of your tractor, perhaps someone else could help here. Good Luck

James K0UA

I did an ohm's check as per the instructions I read on the electrical schematic and determined that the points are stuck. With them stuck the glow plugs would draw power with the key off which would drain the battery. I will let you know what happens. If the battery doesn't die (if I can start the tractor) then I will purchase the relay. I can get it local for $25.

 

[murphy1244]

but why are they getting power?forget it.

 

[k0ua]

I did an ohm's check as per the instructions I read on the electrical schematic and determined that the points are stuck. With them stuck the glow plugs would draw power with the key off which would drain the battery. I will let you know what happens. If the battery doesn't die (if I can start the tractor) then I will purchase the relay. I can get it local for $25.

Excellent! Looks like an easy fix then.

James K0UA

 

[trockyh]

but why are they getting power?forget it.

Murphy, I appreciate the help and am not dismissing it being the ignition, but when I had the dash apart I unplugged the ignition, but still had the draw. I'm not great with electrical but it it was the ignition switch then I would think that with it disconnected there wouldn't be any current going through the relay.
Is it possible that one terminal of the relay is always hot and if the points are stuck that would be the problem?
Again, I apologize if you feel I was blowing you off. I'm pretty simple minded and was excited to get to this point.

Tom

 

[k0ua]

Murphy, I appreciate the help and am not dismissing it being the ignition, but when I had the dash apart I unplugged the ignition, but still had the draw. I'm not great with electrical but it it was the ignition switch then I would think that with it disconnected there wouldn't be any current going through the relay.
Is it possible that one terminal of the relay is always hot and if the points are stuck that would be the problem?
Again, I apologize if you feel I was blowing you off. I'm pretty simple minded and was excited to get to this point.

Tom

Tom, I think you are on track, and thinking things through, I looked at my tractor schematic (different tractor), but if the preheat relay contacts were welded together, than the glow plugs would draw current thru the 60 amp fuseable link. That is all that is between the glow plugs and the battery. If you have ohmed out the contacts and they are truly shorted together, than that is your problem. I hope the glow plugs are still in good shape, after being on for so long to drain the battery. Good luck.

James K0UA

 

[murphy1244]

Murphy, I appreciate the help and am not dismissing it being the ignition, but when I had the dash apart I unplugged the ignition, but still had the draw. I'm not great with electrical but it it was the ignition switch then I would think that with it disconnected there wouldn't be any current going through the relay.
Is it possible that one terminal of the relay is always hot and if the points are stuck that would be the problem?
Again, I apologize if you feel I was blowing you off. I'm pretty simple minded and was excited to get to this point.

Tom

No,I don't feel like that. After I sent my post I new I was wrong about the switch thats why i wrote forget it. I think you found your problem.

 

[trockyh]

Thanks to everyone for your posts. I took the relay apart and the points were not welded, or at least they weren't when I took them apart. They might have broke apart while prying the plastic. But, they look like they might have been welded together.
I have to tell you, I am so happy. This is something I have been dealing with for the past couple months. Finally had the time to really look into what was causing the problem.

Thanks again,
Tom

 

[Highbeam]

I had the same problem. Start the tractor, load on trailer, next morning I would travel to the field and then turn the key and get a totally dead battery.

The GP relay is right on the firewall and was dumping current into the GPs all the time. I got into the habit of plugging in the relay to start and then unplugging it after startup. Sort of a manual switch.

Cheap and easy to replace. It sure stinks to have to jump start the tractor from the pickup when the tractor is still on the trailer.